Swashbuckler? Mauler? Name This AT! (And Help Me Flesh It Out Too.)

[Zepp]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

The T9 isn't a choice for the player. The devs won't do that again. The "or" in any given power entry is to denote that any given power set will have either the first power *or* the second power available depending on the set. So an armor could be a resist. It could be a defense. It could be both but at lower values. (It could be a regeneration power instead.) Same thing with the T9. It could be another attack. Or it could be a panic button defense of some type. Whichever is more balanced and appropriate for the AT and specific set.

 

(Edit: The AT is after all, a work in progress. I am depending on feedback from others to help refine it into something the devs will want to make, players will want to play, and still be as easy for the devs to implement as I can manage.)

I wasn't saying it would be an "or" power choice. I was saying that players would have a choice between, let's sat fire blast* with a nuke or sonic blast* with an OhS! or maybe NRG with a revive... The point I was making was that this would make a real difference between how the sets operate. A /fire would feel a whole lot different than a /sonic or /NRG based on this. This could be fun, but will also be a likely source of forum rants.

And, as I said earlier, min/maxers, especially, are likely to be more drawn to the nuke sets.

As such, while I would likely be for having each set being more distinct, from a dev's perspective, it is likely that they would choose one or the other for all secondaries within the AT.

[Rudra]

I was more thinking depending on feedback and what would work best for the AT for both balance and game play, either the attack would be dropped from the tree or the panic button would be dropped from the tree.

[UltraAlt]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I was more thinking depending on feedback and what would work best for the AT for both balance and game play, either the attack would be dropped from the tree or the panic button would be dropped from the tree.

 

What are your suggestions for the types of "panic" powers that might be for this set?

[Rudra]

When it comes to panic powers, things like existing armor set T9s work. Just a short boost to your survival so you can either get away in the provided window or hopefully clear the opposition. However, I'm open to ideas.

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, Rudra said:

When it comes to panic powers, things like existing armor set T9s work. Just a short boost to your survival so you can either get away in the provided window or hopefully clear the opposition. However, I'm open to ideas.

 

So basically the related scrapper secondary set T9?

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

So basically the related scrapper secondary set T9?

Yeah. Though, again. I am open to alternatives. If anyone has ideas, please post them.

[Bionic_Flea]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:39 PM, Rudra said:

Swashbuckler? Mauler? Name This AT!

 

Uhhhh . . . . SENTINEL!

 

That has a nice ring to it.

[Rudra]

Sentinels already exist as armored range characters. Can't use it. 😛

[Rudra]

Okay, given the lack of feedback on whether the secondary T9 should be a panic button or attack power, I'm going to stick with the panic button and look at specific scales and APPs. So the proposed AT is currently as follows:

 

Striker

Inherent: Unstoppable: When HP drops to 25% or less, gain +10% regen and +10% speed (recharge and movement) until above 25% HP.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 100-110% Scrapper damage? (Base damage values to be equal to or slightly higher than Scrappers due to lack of crits).

Ranged Damage: 80-85% Blaster damage? (Focus is melee. Let the Blasters and Corruptors rule ranged combat.)

Armor Values:  90% Scrapper base value? (Needs to be lower than Scrappers given the advantage of being able to engage either at range or melee at will.)

 

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Confront

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Melee defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: Ranged defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T5: Self heal or Aim depending on set (Dropped Build Up in favor of Aim due to the set being ranged as opposed to melee.)

T6: AoE defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T7: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle or moderate recharge click)

T8: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T9: Panic button power

 

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Scrapper?

 

*- Relevant combinations of defenses or resists as per the reference Scrapper armor sets. For instance, fire attack secondary pool would tap the Fiery Aura Scrapper secondary for relevant data, ranged blade (vacuum wave) secondary pool would tap Super Reflexes for relevant data, and so forth.

 

[UltraAlt]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Melee defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: Ranged defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T5: Self heal or Aim depending on set (Dropped Build Up in favor of Aim due to the set being ranged as opposed to melee.)

T6: AoE defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T7: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle or moderate recharge click)

T8: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T9: Panic button power

 

I'm looking at the armor set-up.

If this is Archetype is supposed to be in the thick of it and the ranged attacks are more for entering melee range or chasing down runners, then I think the AoE armor needs to be lower in the list and maybe even before the ranged defense.  You don't want to be hip-deep in a melee near a tank and get hit with the splash from all the AoE's hitting the tank.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I'm looking at the armor set-up.

If this is Archetype is supposed to be in the thick of it and the ranged attacks are more for entering melee range or chasing down runners, then I think the AoE armor needs to be lower in the list and maybe even before the ranged defense.  You don't want to be hip-deep in a melee near a tank and get hit with the splash from all the AoE's hitting the tank.

That's fair. I was looking at the more or less standard skill progression for these kinds of characters. They learn to defend in close first, then progressively apply it to ranged, with AoEs often being the only way to hit some of them until they figure out how to evade those too. It doesn't make sense for a progression scale to me to switch range and AoE defenses, but I'm fine with doing so for mechanics. Any other opinions on the matter? Anyone else think AoE defense should be before range defense or at least moved to T5?

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

I was looking at the more or less standard skill progression for these kinds of characters.

 

I understand that entirely, but I think we need to take into account what level your character would need to be in order to get it. It would be level 20 at least.

The character would have access to 12 powers at that point.

 

If you are blowing-off he game and going directly to level 50 the level where you gain powers isn't as important as it is when you are picking powers as you level.

 

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

They learn to defend in close first, then progressively apply it to ranged, with AoEs often being the only way to hit some of them until they figure out how to evade those too. It doesn't make sense for a progression scale to me to switch range and AoE defenses

 

Well that is my point, I think that the AoE defense is more of a "in close" defense as opposed to ranged defense. 

 

9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

You don't want to be hip-deep in a melee near a tank and get hit with the splash from all the AoE's hitting the tank.

 

That damage is going to affect your character. If your character can't defense against or resist the damage you get the full brunt of it.

I definitely think I would be getting combat jumping with this archetype for some extra defense as it is.

 

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Any other opinions on the matter?

 

If you simply switch the Ranged and AoE armor, it changes the dynamic of play. You alway want to be in melee range, so the tactic is to close until your character can slot the ranged armor.

[Rudra]

I get that. Hence:

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm fine with doing so

 

However, so far this has just been you and me going back and forth over the AT. While this does make the proposed AT a collaboration, I would like additional feedback from others.

[UltraAlt]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I would like additional feedback from others.

 

I agree. The only way you are likely to get feedback is if people see the thread.

As soon as the back-and-forth between us ends, the thread will fall off of everyone's radar entirely.

[Akisan]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:59 PM, Rudra said:

Okay, given the lack of feedback on whether the secondary T9 should be a panic button or attack power, I'm going to stick with the panic button and look at specific scales and APPs. So the proposed AT is currently as follows:

 

Striker

Inherent: Unstoppable: When HP drops to 25% or less, gain +10% regen and +10% speed (recharge and movement) until above 25% HP.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 100-110% Scrapper damage? (Base damage values to be equal to or slightly higher than Scrappers due to lack of crits).

Ranged Damage: 80-85% Blaster damage? (Focus is melee. Let the Blasters and Corruptors rule ranged combat.)

Armor Values:  90% Scrapper base value? (Needs to be lower than Scrappers given the advantage of being able to engage either at range or melee at will.)

 

Not a fan of that inherent - and I miss Defiance 1.0 somedays.  It's got the same incentive to play overly aggressively to get a boost, then stay in a bad situation.  Only, it's not nearly as powerful as Defiance 1.0 was.  (And yes, I have asked to not be healed, just so I wouldn't lose my massive damage bonus).  A better inherent may be:

 

Onslaught: Each (ranged only?) attack you make grants 3% def/all and 1 pt. of status protection (all) for [10-15] seconds. (A defensive version of Defiance, allowing Strikers to stay in Melee range)

 

I'd also bump both damage scales up slightly (110-120% melee, 90-95% blaster damage), or enable Crits.  Without inherent armor, and a strong melee focus, a weak damage multiplier would put Strikers as a slightly more damaging Scrapper, but without any meaningful way to engage more dangerous foes without inspecting the floor (even Blappers at least have their Sustain to help keep them upright, if they don't soften the group up first at range). Even as it is, they're not set up to fight for any long period of time - 2 full sets of attacks, and no bonus recovery means lots of blues or downtime between fights.

 

On 2/5/2023 at 11:59 PM, Rudra said:

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Confront

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

One of the changes I made when porting a Scrapper set to a Striker was the removal of Confront.  As a (somewhat squishy) damage dealer, you'd be looking to avoid getting aggro, not take it off of another character.  I also strongly debated removing *all* AoE from the Striker's power listing, but decided that would make them decidedly uncompetitive vs. the other damaging archetypes.  And, with minor Mez protection in the inherent, the T5 primary can go back to being Build Up. (Or Aim, this is a damaging AT).

 

On 2/5/2023 at 11:59 PM, Rudra said:

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Melee defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: Ranged defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T5: Self heal or Aim depending on set (Dropped Build Up in favor of Aim due to the set being ranged as opposed to melee.)

T6: AoE defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T7: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle or moderate recharge click)

T8: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T9: Panic button power

 

[Ranged/Armor/(Manipulation)] feels like it'll too easily fall into the "jack of all trades" problem - which a Striker isn't.  They're there to jump in, kill arrest everybody as fast as they can, and keep the survivors witnesses from escaping. [Ranged/Manipulation] does just that - keeps the really dangerous foes at bay, cuts down runners, and can even keep the stronger runners from escaping in the first place (I've totally immobilized bosses, just so they couldn't run off while I took out the rest of a spawn).  Removing [Armor] from the mix allows more tools for that playstyle, but does require that the inherent convey some passive defenses until you get to the Ancillary Pools. (As a side note, I left the T9 as it was in the Blaster secondaries.  This is another all-in, damaging AT, and panic buttons don't really fit that theme).

 

On 2/5/2023 at 11:59 PM, Rudra said:

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Scrapper?

 

*- Relevant combinations of defenses or resists as per the reference Scrapper armor sets. For instance, fire attack secondary pool would tap the Fiery Aura Scrapper secondary for relevant data, ranged blade (vacuum wave) secondary pool would tap Super Reflexes for relevant data, and so forth.

 

I listed the Ancillary Pools as [Armor].  By the time you get to mid-30s, the increase to enemy HP & powersets is pretty noticeable, and a Melee class will need *some* defenses to stay alive.  That, and the Ancillary sets are designed to fill in the holes in an AT's kit - in this case, raw survivability.  I could also see [Armor/Control] or [Control] being possible here - there's no need for defenses if you can render your opponents helpless. (It's how my blaster survives - double bosses are a lot less scary if they're permanently Held)

[Rudra]

I would rather keep the armors in the primary/secondary pools rather than an ancillary pool. Because the core concept of this AT is melee with ranged options, I'm rather fond of the armors as they give more survivability than the array of debuffs I had tried on the second version. However, I was considering swapping out the Scrapper ancillary pools for the Mastermind ancillary pools. That would give the AT the control options you are talking about. Also, bear in mind I did include some (unidentified) utility (debuff) powers to augment the AT's survival in close. Soooooo... ... let's try this:

 

Striker

Inherent:

          Onslaught: Attacking foes builds onslaught meter, may be triggered for 10-15 seconds of +x% increased damage. Moderate/long recharge (not affected by recharge changes).

               -or-

         Feedback Loop: Using ranged attacks grants +2% accuracy for 15 seconds while melee attacks grant +2% (defense/resist depending on set) for 15 seconds. Stackable 5 times each.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 110-120% Scrapper damage.

Ranged Damage: 90-95% Blaster damage. (Focus is still melee.)

Armor Values:  90% Scrapper base value. (Just a little something to buy time to drop the enemy. May get boosts from final inherent choice, if choice is Feedback Loop.)

Base HP: Moderate. (Blaster levels? Controller levels? In between levels?)

 

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Special power depending on set (Another self buff or enemy debuff attack)

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Melee defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: Ranged defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T5: AoE defense, typed defense, damage resist, or regeneration power depending on set*

T6: Self heal or Aim depending on set (Dropped Build Up in favor of Aim due to the set being ranged as opposed to melee.)

T7: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle or moderate recharge click)

T8: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T9: Panic button power

 

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Mastermind (A few more ranged attacks couldn't hurt, but the addition of controls may be critical later.)

 

*- Relevant combinations of defenses or resists as per the reference Scrapper armor sets. For instance, fire attack secondary pool would tap the Fiery Aura Scrapper secondary for relevant data, ranged blade (vacuum wave) secondary pool would tap Super Reflexes for relevant data, and so forth.

 

 

Sooooooo... ... how is that? And which inherent?

Edited February 8, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove attempt at text alignment. And to swap secondary T5 and T6.

[Akisan]

I'll agree, baked-in armor would improve survivability vs. debuffs/minor controls.  I was trying to remove that tie, partly because the separation would distinguish Strikers from the other 4 melee ATs (all of which are Melee/Armor or Armor/Melee), and partly to allow for more character customization - so you could run ranged blades + Fire Armor (instead of ranged blades forcing SR).  To that end, I would even consider [Ranged/Control], i.e. [Assault], over [Ranged/Armor], leading to an AT that looks more like a melee-centric Dominator.

 

I do like the utility powers mixed into the primary/secondary sets, those could add some very interesting distinctions & synergies if done right. (though, if this is going to be a squishier AT, I'd either drop the mez protection or move it to the Ancillary pool)

 

I'd much rather Feedback Loop on your listed inherents - as listed, it gives an incentive to mix up your attacks between Ranged and Melee, and, especially with my note above, the other option would very much feel like a watered-down Domination bar.  (I might leave the name of the inherent at Onslaught though - a Strikers' onslaught of attacks leaves their opponents off balance, weakening their ability to effectively attack or defend themselves)

 

Base HP:  Moderate (Scrapper HP).  Somewhat more durable than a (supposedly ranged-focused) Blaster would be, but less survivable than Scrappers given the weaker (or missing) armor. If the secondary shifts to [Ranged/Control], then I'd probably set HP equal to Blasters.

 

I'm leaning more towards a very high damage, low survivability build (inverse blaster, very high risk/reward), though such an AT would require a degree of game knowledge that would make it a poor choice for a beginner.  So, I'd leave the melee & ranged damage scalings as-is, but consider lowering the armor multiplier (especially with that inherent).

[Rudra]

I'm avoiding putting the armor into the inherent because then there is no variability in defensive postures between power sets. And I would rather not wait until the ancillaries because the proposed AT doesn't have the Blaster's ability to keep fighting even while mezzed. Which would be bad for a melee focused AT. So with that in mind, something like this?

 

Striker

Inherent:

          Onslaught: Using ranged attacks grants +2% accuracy for 15 seconds while melee attacks grant +2% (defense/resist depending on set) for 15 seconds. Stackable 5 times each.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 110-120% Scrapper damage.

Ranged Damage: 90-95% Blaster damage. (Focus is still melee.)

Armor Values:  85% Scrapper base value.

Base HP: Moderate. (As Scrapper, as recommended. Lesser armor should be sufficient to differentiate and keep on toes.)

 

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Special power depending on set (Another self buff or enemy debuff attack)

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Melee defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set* (Dropped regeneration as option given recent changes)

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: Ranged defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set* (Dropped regeneration as option given recent changes)

T5: AoE defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set* (Dropped as option given recent changes)

T6: Self heal or Aim depending on set

T7: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle or moderate recharge click)

T8: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T9: Panic button power (Maybe an uber PBAoE debuff for some sets instead of just armor boosts for all?)

 

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Mastermind (A few more ranged attacks couldn't hurt, but the addition of controls may be critical later.)

 

*- Relevant combinations of defenses or resists as per the reference Scrapper armor sets. For instance, fire attack secondary pool would tap the Fiery Aura Scrapper secondary for relevant data, ranged blade (vacuum wave) secondary pool would tap Super Reflexes for relevant data, and so forth.

 

Edit: Also, please keep in mind, this is just the template. Actual power positions in the power sets are subject to variance. Just like any other AT.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Rudra

[Akisan]

If it is necessary for [Armor] to remain in the secondary, yes, that load-out looks about where I would put Strikers at.  I may change that +2% accuracy to a 2% defense debuff (benefits your team more, but you less), but that's a minor balance point.

 

I would still highly prefer to decouple armor from the secondary, or at least attempt to when play testing this AT, if for no other reason than to give it a more distinct identity (A 5th Melee/Armor AT could very easily fall into the Stalker/Scrapper/Brute/Tank continuum).

 

And, as a side thought - this occurred to me at work today: we could potentially work strong debuffs into this instead.  People have been asking for a melee support for a while, and Strikers could have a set-themed debuff attached to all of their (ranged?) attacks, allowing them to soften up their opponents at range, then wade in to mop up with very strong melee attacks.  Their ranged damage output would have to fall off dramatically to accommodate that change, but it's doable.

[Rudra]

26 minutes ago, Akisan said:

If it is necessary for [Armor] to remain in the secondary, yes, that load-out looks about where I would put Strikers at.  I may change that +2% accuracy to a 2% defense debuff (benefits your team more, but you less), but that's a minor balance point.

 

I would still highly prefer to decouple armor from the secondary, or at least attempt to when play testing this AT, if for no other reason than to give it a more distinct identity (A 5th Melee/Armor AT could very easily fall into the Stalker/Scrapper/Brute/Tank continuum).

 

And, as a side thought - this occurred to me at work today: we could potentially work strong debuffs into this instead.  People have been asking for a melee support for a while, and Strikers could have a set-themed debuff attached to all of their (ranged?) attacks, allowing them to soften up their opponents at range, then wade in to mop up with very strong melee attacks.  Their ranged damage output would have to fall off dramatically to accommodate that change, but it's doable.

If we can get this as far as play testing? Sure. We can try a debuff route before armor route. If it works out, it would be more or less in keeping with my original pitch of inverse Blaster. I'm just not sure how well that would work out for melee survival, but I would be game to find out. So with that in mind... two options:

 

Striker (Option 1)

Inherent: Onslaught: Using ranged attacks imposes -2% defense debuff for 15 seconds while melee attacks grant +2% (defense/resist depending on set) for 15 seconds. Stackable 5 times each.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 110-120% Scrapper damage.

Ranged Damage: 90-95% Blaster damage. (Focus is still melee.)

Armor Values:  85% Scrapper base value.

Base HP: Moderate. (As Scrapper, as recommended. Lesser armor should be sufficient to differentiate and keep on toes.)

 

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Special power depending on set (Another self buff or enemy debuff attack)

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Melee defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set*

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: Ranged defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set*

T5: AoE defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set*

T6: Self heal or Aim depending on set

T7: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle or moderate recharge click)

T8: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T9: Panic button power (Maybe an uber PBAoE debuff for some sets instead of just armor boosts for all?)

 

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Mastermind

 

*- Relevant combinations of defenses or resists as per the reference Scrapper armor sets. For instance, fire attack secondary pool would tap the Fiery Aura Scrapper secondary for relevant data, ranged blade (vacuum wave) secondary pool would tap Super Reflexes for relevant data, and so forth.

 

 

 

Striker (Option 2)

Inherent: Onslaught: Using ranged attacks imposes -2% defense debuff for 15 seconds while melee attacks grant ??? for 15 seconds. Stackable 5 times each.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 110-120% Scrapper damage.

Ranged Damage: 90-95% Blaster damage. (Focus is still melee.)

Armor Values:  N/A (No inherent).

Base HP: High? (As Tanker for lack of armor?)

 

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Special power depending on set (Another self buff or enemy debuff attack)

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Single Target debuff appropriate to set (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: PBAoE debuff appropriate to set (moderate/long recharge)

T5: Self heal or Aim depending on set

T6: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle [aura]) appropriate to set

T7: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T8: TAoE(?) debuff appropriate to set (long recharge)

T9: Panic button power: PBAoE damage+debuff appropriate to set (very long recharge or long recharge+unaffected by recharge)

 

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Mastermind (A few more ranged attacks couldn't hurt, but the addition of controls may be critical later.)

 

Do those work for comparison purposes? (Edit: If we ever manage to get to play testing.) Need something new to fix the second version's inherent though. (I am really not a fan of all characters using this AT getting the same defenses because the inherent grants armor effects.) I am keeping the mez protection in both versions though since it is a melee focused AT and lacks the Blaster's keep fighting while mezzed ability.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Rudra

[Akisan]

Those work! I might be tempted to add a minor (or better!) debuff to *all* of the ranged attacks in the secondary, to make it so Strikers wouldn't lose momentum by choosing to use their ranged attacks vs. their strong debuffs.

 

2nd option's inherent:  Melee attacks grant +(2-5)% to debuff strength for 15s (capped at 5, still). Again, attempting to encourage mixing up ranged and melee attacks.

It could also be possible to grant Strikers a flat 4 pts of mez protection in their inherent - enough to stop single CC attacks, but any stacked CCs stops them. (This could be the extent of their anti-mez power as well, though I would perhaps turn that power into a mini-sustain to make up for the weakened protection).  Either way, they'd be a pseudo-squishy AT, and, like blasters, able to fight through some mez effects.

 

I'd still leave the HP at Moderate (at least to start, anyways) - a well played defender can melt through higher difficulties, and they have Moderate damage/Low-Moderate HP & no mez protection (they are Ranged though, which is a huge boost to survivability).

[Rudra]

Okay. So for... ... uhm... I forgot what version we're up to... current attempt with minor tweaks. Two versions for comparison if we get to play testing.

 

Striker (Option 1)

Inherent: Onslaught: Using ranged attacks imposes -2% defense debuff for 15 seconds while melee attacks grant +2% (defense/resist depending on set) for 15 seconds. Stackable 5 times each.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 110-120% Scrapper damage.

Ranged Damage: 90-95% Blaster damage. (Focus is still melee.)

Armor Values:  85% Scrapper base value.

Base HP: Moderate. (As Scrapper, as recommended. Lesser armor should be sufficient to differentiate and keep on toes.)

 

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Special power depending on set (Another self buff or enemy debuff attack)

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Melee defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set*

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: Ranged defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set*

T5: AoE defense, typed defense, or damage resist power depending on set*

T6: Self heal or Aim depending on set

T7: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle or moderate recharge click)

T8: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T9: Panic button power (Maybe an uber PBAoE debuff for some sets instead of just armor boosts for all?)

 

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Mastermind

 

*- Relevant combinations of defenses or resists as per the reference Scrapper armor sets. For instance, fire attack secondary pool would tap the Fiery Aura Scrapper secondary for relevant data, ranged blade (vacuum wave) secondary pool would tap Super Reflexes for relevant data, and so forth.

 

 

 

Striker (Option 2)

Inherent: Onslaught: Using ranged attacks imposes -2% defense debuff for 15 seconds while melee attacks grant +2% special (secondary pool effects) for 15 seconds. Stackable 5 times each.

Critical Capable: No.

Melee Damage: 110-120% Scrapper damage.

Ranged Damage: 90-95% Blaster damage. (Focus is still melee.)

Armor Values:  N/A (No inherent).

Base HP: Moderate or High, depending on AT needs.

 

Primary Power Pool: Melee

T1: Light damage melee attack (fast/very fast recharge)

T2: Moderate damage melee attack (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Special power depending on set (Examples include perception increasing toggle/click power [including +ACC or +ToHit] or ToHit debuff attack)

T4: Cone moderate damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T5: Mez Protection

T6: Special power depending on set (Another self buff or enemy debuff attack)

T7: High damage melee attack (moderate recharge)

T8: Cone high damage or moderate damage+special melee attack depending on set (moderate-long recharge)

T9: PBAoE severe to extreme damage melee attack (long recharge)

 

Secondary Power Pool: "Range"

T1: Light damage or minor damage+special ranged attack (moderate recharge)

T2: Single Target debuff appropriate to set (fast/moderate recharge)

T3: Moderate damage ranged attack or light damage+special ranged attack depending on set (moderate recharge)

T4: PBAoE debuff appropriate to set (moderate/long recharge)

T5: Self heal or Aim depending on set

T6: PBAoE utility (enemy debuff) power (toggle [aura]) appropriate to set

T7: Cone or TAoE moderate damage ranged attack depending on set

T8: TAoE(?) debuff appropriate to set (long recharge)

T9: Panic button power: PBAoE damage+debuff appropriate to set (very long recharge or long recharge+unaffected by recharge)

 

Ancillary Power Pools:  As Mastermind (A few more ranged attacks couldn't hurt, but the addition of controls may be critical later.)

 

*- Actual power placement in their respective trees still subject to variance depending on specific sets regardless of AT option used.

 

I'm fairly certain the more balanced version, or at least the more survivable version, will be the armor version, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it turns out the other way. And even if the armor version is the one that is selected, there won't be any real competition with Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, and Tankers for armored melees since this AT only gets 3 versus the 5+ of the other ATs.

 

Anyway! Any more feedback on this? Still looking to make this as fun, balanced, and desirable to play as I can manage! (And as not complicated to implement as I can, but it doesn't look like I managed that particular goal....) The more feedback, the better this should turn out.

[Akisan]

Looks about where I'd put it (both versions).  It'd be nice to have more people's thoughts on this though, both to help round it out, and to show the devs that there's more than maybe 5-10 people interested in this as a possible new AT.

[Rudra]

I was hoping for more feedback on this AT. I'm glad and thankful for the responses given, but also saddened.

[ClawsandEffect]

Scrapper Primary/Dominator Secondary. 

 

Swap out the melee attacks in the Dominator Secondary for armor/survivability powers that match the theme of the set. 

 

Done. 

 

Example of a secondary: The Martial Assault Secondary is already really cool with a bunch of shuriken throwing attacks. Since shuriken are the theme for the ranged attacks, take a few defensive powers from Ninjitsu (there's a little bit of overlap there already). 

 

Do the same with the other Assault sets and Robert is your mothers brother. 

 

No idea what a good name or inherent for it would be.