BRB - They could do this now, correct?

[jubakumbi]

Jubakumbi - I know you aren't trying to start something with me, and that we banter.  Please know that I am likewise not trying to start something.  I do feel singled out on this post by you and PK and I am unclear exactly why, since I have never said No or /Jranger or -1 to this idea.

 

We good. :)

 

I just think that things like 'opportunity costs' fly out of the window in this instance, because no corporation to feed, it's all Art and Passion which cannot be turned into a factory. IME.

 

The whole point is that the whimsical/practical/interesting changes and additions will all be passion projects and therefore not really exclusive of each other because while at some point the resources are finite, comparatively they become infinite - Inc. vs. Crowd Source.

 

So, when I see anyone discouraging anything, an _addition_ especially, that in no way seems to be breaking to the core game (not Fortnite), I have to ask why they don't like Fun. :)

 

Opportunity Costs, ROI, Market Penetration - that's for retail games, IMO.

We have like 100k passionate players, many of whom are good geeks, so I just don't see resources as the issue.

Passion for each thing is what has to be built, if there is something you want.

 

So, it's no longer Us and 'the Devs', it really is, just Us.

[justicebeliever]

Jubakumbi - I know you aren't trying to start something with me, and that we banter.  Please know that I am likewise not trying to start something.  I do feel singled out on this post by you and PK and I am unclear exactly why, since I have never said No or /Jranger or -1 to this idea.

 

We good. :)

 

I just think that things like 'opportunity costs' fly out of the window in this instance, because no corporation to feed, it's all Art and Passion which cannot be turned into a factory. IME.

 

The whole point is that the whimsical/practical/interesting changes and additions will all be passion projects and therefore not really exclusive of each other because while at some point the resources are finite, comparatively they become infinite - Inc. vs. Crowd Source.

 

So, when I see anyone discouraging anything, an _addition_ especially, that in no way seems to be breaking to the core game (not Fortnite), I have to ask why they don't like Fun. :)

 

Opportunity Costs, ROI, Market Penetration - that's for retail games, IMO.

We have like 100k passionate players, many of whom are good geeks, so I just don't see resources as the issue.

Passion for each thing is what has to be built, if there is something you want.

 

So, it's no longer Us and 'the Devs', it really is, just Us.

 

I hate all Fun that isn't Fun the way I want to have it!!!!!!  (100% j/k)

 

Art too has opportunity costs - "Art is never finished, only abandoned." Leonardo da Vinci.  At some point you say - good enough, and move onto something else, just so you can do something else...

 

And the Dev's have been good about asking the community what they want...so I feel comfortable saying I don't want that...How else will the dev's know how to gauge the community's passion? 

 

You bring up a good point about Crowd Sourcing more and more of the game, and I like that.  And I would never complain about any crowdsourced suggestiong using an opportunity costs argument.  Truly that is the ultimate community passion project. 

 

But asking for volunteers to work for the Dev's isn't quite the same as crowdsourcing.  In crowdsourcing you tell the crowd - send us all your stuff and well see what we can do with it, and that hasn't happened yet.  Instead they have volunteers that they give tasks to, which means it's still being run like a development team.  Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't, but for now since a few people are setting the priorities for the many, it's an opportunity cost game. 

 

But I would love to see us get to the crowd source model...that would make this game explode in ways that even the original dev team couldn't imagine.  There would be a lot of competing projects and some that are in direct opposition to each other, so in some ways it would also magnify the drama as well...I need to think more on this...

 

But I would still kick the ball

 

[TfStormcry]

But I would still kick the ball

 

If a damage to knockback formula was put into place, I would assassin strike the ball just to see it go flying!

 

Also, if BRB is added, I suggest adding a co-op beach zone with npc's and vendors, but (normally) no mobs, just so everyone can enjoy the ball. Maybe during special events, have mobs show up trying to steal the ball :P

[jubakumbi]

But asking for volunteers to work for the Dev's isn't quite the same as crowdsourcing.  In crowdsourcing you tell the crowd - send us all your stuff and well see what we can do with it, and that hasn't happened yet.  Instead they have volunteers that they give tasks to, which means it's still being run like a development team.  Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't, but for now since a few people are setting the priorities for the many, it's an opportunity cost game. 

 

But I would love to see us get to the crowd source model...that would make this game explode in ways that even the original dev team couldn't imagine.  There would be a lot of competing projects and some that are in direct opposition to each other, so in some ways it would also magnify the drama as well...I need to think more on this...

 

But I would still kick the ball

 

We are still not on the same page. :)

I don't think anything has to change, I don't think volunteers haved to be asked for anything.

 

IMO, geeks like me that get an idea they want to see implemented, will get the code, make and test the changes, and then hand it over to server runners to hopefully incorporate/help incorporate.

 

That's a passion project.

 

It won't have much if anything to do with how many players want it, how much 'real value' some thin it adds - it wil happen simply because someone decides they feel like doing it, the need to scratch that itch.

 

Use whatever terms work for you, but I am talking about 100k people that all have ideas and a lot of whom are capable of doing what I just described.

Why look for the word to pigeon hole the process?

Just let it be what it is, passion and art.

 

Build stuff. Contribute it.

Some people will love it, others will hate it, such is life.

 

This is no longer some super-structered hierarchy of capitalism. :)

[justicebeliever]

We are still not on the same page. :)

I don't think anything has to change, I don't think volunteers haved to be asked for anything.

 

IMO, geeks like me that get an idea they want to see implemented, will get the code, make and test the changes, and then hand it over to server runners to hopefully incorporate/help incorporate.

 

That's a passion project.

 

It won't have much if anything to do with how many players want it, how much 'real value' some thin it adds - it wil happen simply because someone decides they feel like doing it, the need to scratch that itch.

 

Use whatever terms work for you, but I am talking about 100k people that all have ideas and a lot of whom are capable of doing what I just described.

Why look for the word to pigeon hole the process?

Just let it be what it is, passion and art.

 

Build stuff. Contribute it.

Some people will love it, others will hate it, such is life.

 

This is no longer some super-structered hierarchy of capitalism. :)

I agree with almost everything you just said, but I do think we need to hear HC say if you build it, we will consider it.  They are asking for volunteers to do tasks for them.  So for right now, it's still the classical hierarchical model.  I've yet to see a Dev say - "run with that".

 

What I do agree with is, once they open it up to player's contributions, there will be an explosion of story arcs, costume parts, AT's, powersets, etc, etc, that will be unbelievably awesome.

 

So I think we both agree on the model, we both agree the model is good - where we differ is that you believe it's already happening and I have yet to see it, so I don't yet believe it...

 

But I would still kick the ball

 

 

[jubakumbi]

What I do agree with is, once they open it up to player's contributions, there will be an explosion of story arcs, costume parts, AT's, powersets, etc, etc, that will be unbelievably awesome.

 

So I think we both agree on the model, we both agree the model is good - where we differ is that you believe it's already happening and I have yet to see it, so I don't yet believe it...

 

 

I speak in what is possible, not what has been done.

The code exists, a passionate geek can create and contribute.

 

To not do something because it has not yet been done or I have not been explicitly told I can, is not an obstacle, IMO. :)

 

This idea of sitting around and waiting for others to tell us what to do is ... something I rail against. :)

 

If you see something you want built, build it.

 

This line of thinking 'wait for someone else to tell me', IMO/IME is just personal FUD that we, as humans, use to excuse ourselves from doing things. :)

 

I will be very suprised to hear that a server runner turns down something a player makes unless it really hurts the game or that servers 'community footprint'.

So, from my PoV, until that happens, until player made passion project contributions start getting turned down, then there is no reason not to build stuff and submit...

 

Why wait for permission in a situation like this, when there is no real authority figure involved? :)

[justicebeliever]

I speak in what is possible, not what has been done.

The code exists, a passionate geek can create and contribute.

 

To not do something because it has not yet been done or I have not been explicitly told I can, is not an obstacle, IMO. :)

 

This idea of sitting around and waiting for others to tell us what to do is ... something I rail against. :)

 

If you see something you want built, build it.

 

This line of thinking 'wait for someone else to tell me', IMO/IME is just personal FUD that we, as humans, use to excuse ourselves from doing things. :)

 

I will be very suprised to hear that a server runner turns down something a player makes unless it really hurts the game or that servers 'community footprint'.

So, from my PoV, until that happens, until player made passion project contributions start getting turned down, then there is no reason not to build stuff and submit...

 

Why wait for permission in a situation like this, when there is no real authority figure involved? :)

I knew you would straighten me out...Agree 100%...

 

However until some enterprising coder comes up with this, I personally don't want to see our existing Development team work on this in lieu of other things.  That's just my personal opinion, in a community that asks for opinions and feedback.  And I have no problem with people who say they would prefer it over other things.

 

But I would still kick the ball.

 

Thanks Jubakumbi!

[jubakumbi]

However until some enterprising coder comes up with this, I personally don't want to see our existing Development team work on this in lieu of other things.  That's just my personal opinion, in a community that asks for opinions and feedback.  And I have no problem with people who say they would prefer it over other things.

 

And that is a reasonable stance - I would prefer - over 'your idea has no value'. :)

 

Here is another thought, based on experience.

 

As a developer, you typically have a serveral ideas in your mental que.

Lets say one of them is a new AT and the other is the BRB.

 

In thinking of the technical details for implementing both, as those ideas will float around, you realize 'just how' to go and make the BRB work.

Then, in the process of getting that itch scratched, it occurs to you how to make the AT work as well.

So, lots of ROI from the 'whimsical' addition.

 

None of this is a zero-sum game.

 

Making things work in a code base like this one, from the descriptions, often works in the way I just described, from professional experience.

 

Sometimes, you 'just see' how to get something to work and it rushes out - that is often hard to replicate on demand, regarless of the 'user desirability' for the features involved.

 

The issue I come back to is that people make the code and they are not machines, so it happens as it happens, if you want real creative/innovative quality.

[justicebeliever]

And that is a reasonable stance - I would prefer - over 'your idea has no value'. :)

 

Here is another thought, based on experience.

 

As a developer, you typically have a serveral ideas in your mental que.

Lets say one of them is a new AT and the other is the BRB.

 

In thinking of the technical details for implementing both, as those ideas will float around, you realize 'just how' to go and make the BRB work.

Then, in the process of getting that itch scratched, it occurs to you how to make the AT work as well.

So, lots of ROI from the 'whimsical' addition.

 

None of this is a zero-sum game.

 

Making things work in a code base like this one, from the descriptions, often works in the way I just described, from professional experience.

 

Sometimes, you 'just see' how to get something to work and it rushes out - that is often hard to replicate on demand, regarless of the 'user desirability' for the features involved.

 

The issue I come back to is that people make the code and they are not machines, so it happens as it happens, if you want real creative/innovative quality.

 

I never once in any post I have ever made, said "your idea has no value".

 

But I do agree that crazy side projects are often catalysts for some really cool innovation that would otherwise not come about.  And if the Dev's are passionate about it, it won't harm me...

 

And I would...still...kick the ball

 

[jubakumbi]

I never once in any post I have ever made, said "your idea has no value".

 

C'mon now, not 'you', in my example, and there are many nicer ways people say it, but mean the same thing. :)

 

It _is_ a present attitude among gamers, IMO due to the inherent competitive nature involved, that trying to get others to think a game addition adds no value will get it out of the que for addition to a game.

Not that the idea they want is 'better', but that they 'other thing' is 'bad' or outright 'worhtless'.

 

It was said in this thread that the BRB provides no value, 'value' in this instance is entirely subjective, so the statement has little 'value' IMO.

Funs Per Second can be increased with a BRB for more than one player.

 

I prefer to advocate for the things that are 'good' about something I am trying to get 'changed', rather than 'tearing down' the ideas of others.

Making my desire more attractive, if you will, over making another less so.

 

I am not always successful, but it is my intent.

I like to fuel passion, not stiffle it, whenever I can...even if that passion is for something I have no interest in personally.

'We all lift together' is the saying these days, right?

[justicebeliever]

I prefer to advocate for the things that are 'good' about something I am trying to get 'changed', rather than 'tearing down' the ideas of others.

Making my desire more attractive, if you will, over making another less so.

 

I am not always successful, but it is my intent.

I like to fuel passion, not stiffle it, whenever I can...even if that passion is for something I have no interest in personally.

'We all lift together' is the saying these days, right?

 

Agree 100%.  No ands, ifs, or buts...

 

Well one question -

 

Would you...kick...the ball?

 

+1 Inf

[jubakumbi]

Would you...kick...the ball?

 

Dude.

I am already thinking of how we can add proper football (soccer to some) rules and get people to sign up for teams.

I think a BRB tournament, expecially if done in a PvP context, would be Awesome.

 

Volley Ball?

Pool trickshots into _other_ BRBs?

Make the BRB do damage and play carnival games with real Carnival.

 

There are so many Fun things...I do not have an idle mind.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Exactly, anyone can pick up the code and add the BRB, like any other change or addition.

If someone wants to add it into the game, how is this 'bad'?

Why would anyone be dissappointed?

How does this negatively impact _anyone_?

 

If HC wants to add that code into their codebase (or one of them adds it) how is this negative, in anyway?

 

Some people forget how to just have fun without expecting a return on thier investment, IMO, talking about 'wasting time' on creating more things in a video game that is built to help us waste time...

 

You are tying three together that don't have to be connected...

 

As a human, we can feel conflicting emotions...I can be excited about getting a free steak dinner, find out the restaurant is out of steak, and I get free hamburger instead...Is getting free hamburger bad?  No.  Am I negatively impacted?  Not really.  Am I disappointed?  Yes

 

Again, that being said...Why do people ever say "No" to things then in this forum?  It seems hypocritical to say in this thread - let the dev's do what they want, but in a Damage Meter thread it's no no no you can't do that.

 

I love your analogy, but I think you're doing the Devs a disservice. In my experience, they've kept a pretty close eye on what goes on and then there's the tossing around of cost/reward thing. In this case that metric is slightly different as in profit isn't the motive it's simply an equation of [man hours/benefit]

 

Resources are finite. They pay attention. You/We have our game. Suggest away but don't be disgruntled* when your project doesn't see the light of day. You can still play!

 

*have you ever met anyone who was actually gruntled?