Increase Supergroup Membership

[Sidious]

On 7/25/2019 at 4:41 PM, justicebeliever said:

What "out of the box" version?  I'm confused...

sorry for the confusion. I meant the updated version of the game that the coders are working on. The version that would be a single EXE to install. Perhaps I should have said "out of the box" version.

[PaxArcana]

I sincerely doubt that any improved version of CoX will involve that radical a rewrite of the code, Sidious.

[Sidious]

you never know. All depends on what modernization they include.

At least there is hope.

[PaxArcana]

Actually, I'd say it depends more on the resources available to them.

If a full team of programmers, artists, etc - whose Day Job was to work on CoX - never were able to do it, then why should a bunch of part-time hobbyists, whose Day Job is not making CoX better, be more able to do it?

 

I'd love to be wrong about that, but ... I don't think I am.

[Primantis]

7 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

Actually, I'd say it depends more on the resources available to them.

If a full team of programmers, artists, etc - whose Day Job was to work on CoX - never were able to do it, then why should a bunch of part-time hobbyists, whose Day Job is not making CoX better, be more able to do it?

 

I'd love to be wrong about that, but ... I don't think I am.

 

 

While I agree with you, never underestimate what a handful of off-the-clock hobbyist/enthusiasts can accomplish xD

[BlastLord]

I have to agree with the Homecoming Team increasing the Sg cap to over 150 would cause problems it would take time to work on.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 7/25/2019 at 3:05 PM, ed_anger said:

 

Don’t care, I’m guessing more people would prefer larger SGs than the ability to be in two supergroups, I’d love to see it put to a vote. 

 

You do realize there’s no walls between villains and heroes anymore, right? You can just have them in the same SG, and run all hero or all villain groups when you want to. 

Nope you are very very wrong my foot in the mouth friend. As most I knew on live on virtue, and here on everlasting put RP before all else. and an RPG should always put RP needs before anything else.

 

Without prestige the single biggest reason for large SGs has been removed. Storage limits make larger SGs limiting as every enhancment, every inspiration, every bit of salvage set aside for empowerment buffs eats up the 20k item limit.

 

The single biggest utility feature of SG basesm the teleport system is something anyone can use, and a macro can allow anyone instance transport to a base they know the entrance code for.

 

For example on my main toons base we only have 3 salvage storage racks open to all, 1 inspiration for all, and a couple enhancement storage for all. I keepa  private room for 3 inspiration storage divided for heal/recovery, def/dmg res, and acc/dmg insp of med and large sizes. This is only accessible by the upper 3 ranks of the SG which is basically myself, my 2nd in command/base builder, and my other alts that fit that SGs theme.

 

Meanwhile I use basically a throw away toon to keep a private base for myself to store things I want to set aside for future alts, mainly the random purple set drops.  All my toons have a macro button set up to take them to my mains base to use the teleport system since I am lazy and dont feel the need to make a teleport base though that is a public service Im surprised the old paragon taxi service hasnt though of and set up. a simple base only for teleporting to all zones and putting the code for it out  on the various server sections.

 

My point is, that forcing everyone to be part of 1 SG only isa  horrible idea that frankly is deserving of animosity and its taken all my willpower to keep this post as civil as I can. When every issue those who want mega SGs or global affiliation are simply not making use of the various tools fully enough as is to deserve to be treated as having a valid opinion based on expansive knowledge.

 

We have global friends lists, and local friends lists, When Ive spoken to others about my own need to constantly clean up my global lists because its always reaching max I find most seem surprised by this as very few I speak to about the issue in game back on live or now have ever even reached a global friends cap.

 

Put those you always like to team with on global, put toons that work well with a given toon on their local friends list, and use coalitions to help stay in touch with the wider crew on coalition chat.

 

Considering the effort the HC team went through to give us the new expanded base building option, most good base builders are so prone to hit the 20k item cap, that they very rarely want to waste too much on storage space for stuff that can be kept by players in personal storage  bases and mailed in game as needed to their alts.

 

So really what benefit could stripping all of us who already have built up multiple SGs and bases personal and group themed serve other then pissing us off and driving us away? Because Id sooner play this game solo on a personal server then be on a server that makes me choose between my midnight mansion for my magic themed characters, and my cloud 9 space station for my more cosmic themed characters, or my 2 crey themed SGs and their bases for characters of that theme.

 

Not to mention all those who have given to the community great social expanded city zone RP bases that dont get used for personal needs at all.  They keep those bases in existence on basically a storage mule alt. And keep their main toons in main bases for their private needs. Your want would destroy that constantly growing and expanding game world being built by the best creative base builders of our community.

[ed_anger]

On 7/26/2019 at 9:35 PM, WanderingAries said:

I think you're missing something rather big here though. RP or not, people Intentionally will have some alts in one group and some in another. Especially those from the OG. What you're suggesting (if it were even Possible, which it's already been suggested is Not) would result in a mess where Every alt you make will go into that SG.

I love the hissyfits people have over this suggestion.

 

Have people join supergroup by global name, but let them join more than one supergroup. Easy fix. 

 

Not that this discussion is even relevant, as there's already dev feedback. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by ed_anger

[Alty]

Just gonna add my 2 cents as one of the leaders of the largest SG network in the game on live with 35+ SG spread across three servers and maxed out coalitions on Freedom/Blue. I think I'm more than familiar with the SG limitations and frustrations. 

 

As folks have mentioned having it per global would relieve one issue but present many others. 

 

In RO, we have themed and specialized SGs. Some SGs are per AT (Think Tanks) or powersets (Shadows of Salvation - All dark powers) or both (Green Machine - Empathy Defenders) . Some of our SGs have specific set of ATs and costumes.

 

ROers members like having their specific flavor of SG per alt. Kinetics are Pinball Wizards. Trick Arrow Archers are in TRICK. Psi Damage, PPD Psi Ops costumed alts are in Brain Damage...etc. Each SG has a different base, look and feel.  Having more alts to an SG would be nice but not if it means losing the flavor of each specific SG. 

 

If anything a good QOL would be to have offline coalition invites.

 

Yes, I know the SG roster expansion won't happen but it's important to list the varying reason why not everyone thinks it's a no brainer. 

 

...That is all. 😊 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Alty

[HeroReborn]

On 7/28/2019 at 1:07 PM, PaxArcana said:

Actually, I'd say it depends more on the resources available to them.

If a full team of programmers, artists, etc - whose Day Job was to work on CoX - never were able to do it, then why should a bunch of part-time hobbyists, whose Day Job is not making CoX better, be more able to do it?

 

I'd love to be wrong about that, but ... I don't think I am.

In the short time the game has been in the wild, there is already a very easy virtual box server set up anyone can install in minutes, and is a process not much harder than clicking an .exe.

 

A single .exe as wrapper to do everything isn't unlikely in the future.

[HeroReborn]

I'd hate for my global to be linked with supergroup membership, if it meant every alt was in the same sg. I'd prefer status quo even with the size limit.

Edited July 30, 2019 by HeroReborn

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, HeroReborn said:

In the short time the game has been in the wild, there is already a very easy virtual box server set up anyone can install in minutes, and [...]

... and that has nothing whatsoever to do with maintaining the code - that is to say, finding bugs, and changing the programming in order to fix them.

 

Nor does it have even the most remotely tangential relation to adding new content to the game.

[ed_anger]

13 hours ago, Alty said:

In RO, we have themed and specialized SGs. Some SGs are per AT (Think Tanks) or powersets (Shadows of Salvation - All dark powers) or both (Green Machine - Empathy Defenders) . Some of our SGs have specific set of ATs and costumes.

 

ROers members like having their specific flavor of SG per alt. Kinetics are Pinball Wizards. Trick Arrow Archers are in TRICK. Psi Damage, PPD Psi Ops costumed alts are in Brain Damage...etc. Each SG has a different base, look and feel.

1. have players join supergroups by global name

2. players can join as many supergroups as they like

3. you can set supergroup title per character, the same way you select badge titles

 

work for your RP needs?

[PaxArcana]

5 minutes ago, ed_anger said:

1. have players join supergroups by global name

This has already been explained to you as being impossible.  It would require a ground-up rewrite of the game code, everywhere it interacts with Supergroups.

6 minutes ago, ed_anger said:

2. players can join as many supergroups as they like

That number is one per character for a damned good number of us.

7 minutes ago, ed_anger said:

3. you can set supergroup title per character, the same way you select badge titles

 

work for your RP needs?

Nope.  It'd still make some of those RP interactions effectively impossible.

 

...

 

Dude, seriously.  Just give it up, it's not happening the way you want it to.  Ever.

[justicebeliever]

2 hours ago, HeroReborn said:

In the short time the game has been in the wild, there is already a very easy virtual box server set up anyone can install in minutes, and is a process not much harder than clicking an .exe.

 

A single .exe as wrapper to do everything isn't unlikely in the future.

I'm not disagreeing...but for me, having my own private server would make the game a solo gaming experience, maybe the occasionally duoing...but without the throngs of people to team and chat with it wouldn't be the same...

[ed_anger]

Just now, PaxArcana said:

This has already been explained to you as being impossible.  It would require a ground-up rewrite of the game code, everywhere it interacts with Supergroups.

That number is one per character for a damned good number of us.

Nope.  It'd still make some of those RP interactions effectively impossible.

 

...

 

Dude, seriously.  Just give it up, it's not happening the way you want it to.  Ever.

Seriously explain how functionally this doesnt allow exactly whats possible with the status quo. I'll wait.

 

Oh, and I already pointed out the dev input above, but since yall want to argue....

[GM Capocollo]

32 minutes ago, ed_anger said:

1. have players join supergroups by global name

2. players can join as many supergroups as they like

3. you can set supergroup title per character, the same way you select badge titles

 

work for your RP needs?

 

This is a fine proposal -- Guild Wars 2 works like this and it's pretty nice -- but it's not possible with the current codebase, full stop.  It can't happen barring some miraculous infrastructure refactoring that completely rebuilds the way the server and its data are structured from the ground up, so I don't really see the purpose in arguing with people about it any further.
 

Edited July 30, 2019 by GM Capocollo

[ed_anger]

2 minutes ago, GM Capocollo said:

 

This would be a nice suggestion -- Guild Wars 2 works like this and it's pretty nice -- but it's not possible with the current codebase, full stop.  It can't happen barring some miraculous infrastructure refactoring that completely rebuilds the way the server and its data are structured from the ground up.

Thanks, well aware it's not going to happen, just trying to show people how the change could cater conceptually to their needs as well, since they seem to keep arguing it couldn't.

[GM Capocollo]

Stop.

[Voldine]

9 hours ago, ed_anger said:

Thanks, well aware it's not going to happen, just trying to show people how the change could cater conceptually to their needs as well, since they seem to keep arguing it couldn't.

Just because YOU don't give a rat's ass about rp doesn't mean you have a valid point when making an argument for things to be more convenient FOR YOU at the expense of ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

 

I, for one, would be extremely pissed off if ALL of my characters were effectively enrolled in Nukem High just because some whiner wanted SG membership to be global.

[justicebeliever]

 

1 hour ago, Voldine said:

Just because YOU don't give a rat's ass about rp doesn't mean you have a valid point when making an argument for things to be more convenient FOR YOU at the expense of ALL ROLEPLAYERS.

 

I, for one, would be extremely pissed off if ALL of my characters were effectively enrolled in Nukem High just because some whiner wanted SG membership to be global.

I think this fight is over...it's never going to be changed...why beat on this dead horse one way or the other?

[PaxArcana]

30 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

 

I think this fight is over...

Since GM Capocollo said "stop" in a tone that rather echoes of officialdom ... I have in fact carefully refrained from the vitriolic response I feel urged to make, myself.  It's not easy, you understand.  But I'm (barely) managing ...

[justicebeliever]

Just now, PaxArcana said:

Since GM Capocollo said "stop" in a tone that rather echoes of officialdom ... I have in fact carefully refrained from the vitriolic response I feel urged to make, myself.  It's not easy, you understand.  But I'm (barely) managing ...

One day at a time Pax...one post at a time...

 

I'd offer to be your sponsor, but clearly I have failed at all of the steps when it comes to Forums addictions...

 

😄

[PaxArcana]

Dude, have you read my signature, yet?  😄 😄 😄

[justicebeliever]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

Dude, have you read my signature, yet?  😄 😄 😄

Hell, I copied half of it...