Tankiest Tanks?

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

On 6/17/2019 at 5:52 AM, FUBARczar said:

1 - Stone is a terrible set. - Powers that exclude other powers in the same set, that's horrible, and if you build to use everything, I am sorry but it gimps the whole build overall. Plus it's slow, too much lack of mobility, -dmg, -recharge, etc. etc.

With the ability to multi-build, you can build towards a butt-kicker Non-Granite build.
And then, when you need it, become the Rock of Ages in in Granite.

And pretty much the only thing that'll kill you are the Super McCheaty untyped death powers you find in Incarnate stuff.

On 6/17/2019 at 5:52 AM, FUBARczar said:

2 - Super Strength is a crap choice right now unless Rage gets fixed or reworked

Just gonna disagree with you and move on.

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

On 6/17/2019 at 10:36 AM, LorannaPyrel said:

The set does have a disadvantage that hurts you if you rely heavily on Defense alone. But even then, Super Strength offers a way to mitigate its own Rage crash - the Hand Clap power. Really, that power isn't useless either; it's ideal for buying yourself time to let the Rage crash wear off, if you're taking too much damage during it. It can also be used to good effect by off-tanks to knock stray mobs back into the giant blob of frak-you that the party is cooking up.

Even then, it depends how you build it.

Tell me about the Rage crash on THIS build with a saturated Invincibility.

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Mo Durable 4 Psi: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), Ags-Psi/Status(3), GldArm-3defTpProc(3)
Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(9)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), UnbGrd-Max HP%(13)
Level 4: Haymaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(21)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(21), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(23)
Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(23), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(25), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(29), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 16: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(31), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(36)
Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(50)
Level 24: Weave -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(36), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(40), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(40), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Mystic Flight -- Frb-Stlth(A)
Level 35: Hurl -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(43), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(43)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(46)
Level 41: Arcane Bolt -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 44: Rune of Protection -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), GldArm-RechRes(46), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(46), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Char -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(48), SprEnt-End/Rchg(48), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(48), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Resilient Core Paragon
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

I double-dog-dare you!

And no, this is not a Granite Tank.

It's BETTER!

Edited March 17, 2021 by Hyperstrike

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

On 6/17/2019 at 5:44 PM, FUBARczar said:

hehehe Hand Clap! Noooooooo! That's a double whammy, not only will a rage crash no allow you to be offensive, it will also crush you defensively, and to fix it you should take a useless power and waste a power selection. Not to mention that everyone who seems to take it never puts a KB-->KD IO in it (rage time) and they slow the whole team down scattering mobs, making everyone's AoE less effective. Maybe if it was a "sonic" hand clap and did some -res.....

The -def rage crash is monumental for many sets (Def and Resist. based), it was bad enough standing around doing nothing for 10 seconds doing nothing, well except taunting, but now it can kill you too.

Just allow, even encourage doubling stacking rage by cutting rage values in half and getting rid of the crash. /fixed

Perfect pairing I guess is Stone/SS two gimped sets in one.

Oh noez! I might, on occasion, NEED TO EAT AN INSPY!

The horror! THE HORROR!

*WHIBBLE*

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

On 6/18/2019 at 8:53 AM, FUBARczar said:

- hang on a second I am experiencing a "Rage" crash and I cannot engage in this post for ten seconds...

Okay, not to put TOO fine a point on this but...

If you are standing around, holding your genitals, idle during a Rage crash.
YOU
ARE
DOING
IT

'nuff said.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Hyperstrike

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

On 6/18/2019 at 4:44 PM, Williwaw said:

When I had a Stone/Stone Tanker back on Live, I tended to mainly use individual powers rather than run Granite constantly. I'd run the S/L and Mez toggle all the time, and turn on the F/C, E/N, and Psi toggles as necessary.

Then again, I never ran +4/x8, and I never had much money so I wasn't completely IO'd out.

(Still, these days, I'd rather remake him as a WP/Stone Tanker, just because he was an endurance hog up all the way up to 50)

You still CAN run non-Granite.
And you can be pretty badass doing it too.

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

On 6/19/2019 at 1:19 AM, MaximusPrime said:

Umm, no. I can't figure out why someone is arguing for bad game design. The rage crash is ridiculously impairing to play and survivability. I rolled Super Strength expecting to have a similar endearing experience like I did on my main Tanker on live (Ice/SS). But then playing it here I kept wondering why I was eating half my tray of inspirations, just fighting to stay alive when it crashed. It was and is horribly wrong. I had to check combat numbers to figure out what was going on. I have two SS characters on here, but I can't play them, it is that debilitating. Now I have to play and actually enjoying playing Street Justice in place of SS (Thank goodness for that set!)

Also SS is a set of 3 powers really, or 4 because you have to take Jab: Jab, KO Blow, Rage, and Foot Stomp, everything else pretty much under performs compared to other sets. Well I guess haymaker is okish. So four, but forced into Jab for a 5-power set

Personally, I think your pro rage crash position is not a good one. You make a very weak case beyond the obvious (yet unsaid) Double Stacking Rage with no Penalties is not balanced. And in-game play your ideas of plugging it with Vet powers, and Incarnate powers deserves a "face palm." It got me killed a few times, it's very disruptive for game-play, it leaves a bad bitter taste, Rage should be fixed and balanced. And not turn me into Bruce Banner, when I am Superman!

If you're going SO/Common IO, yes, the Rage crash can be dangerous.

On a tricked-out Invuln/SS build with Incarnates? Nah.
Not even slightly.
Again, look up thread for the build I "double dog dared" someone to tell me was in any way dead meat on a Rage crash.

And again, I seriously doubt needing to eat an occasional Inspie is THAT huge a detriment.

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

On 6/19/2019 at 7:20 AM, FUBARczar said:

Oh that's gold, QFT

Rage should

That does kind of embody the problem. Rage should be adjusted, of course, and the whole set should be fixed since it's balanced around a broken power.

No. The power simply doesn't fit YOUR conception of Super Strength.

And I'm sorry you feel that way.

Now show me another TWO MINUTE LONG +ToHit/+Dmg combat buff, that isn't an Incarnate power, with zero downsides ANYWHERE in the game.

StriderIV · March 17, 2021

42 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

No. The power simply doesn't fit YOUR conception of Super Strength.

And I'm sorry you feel that way.

Now show me another TWO MINUTE LONG +ToHit/+Dmg combat buff, that isn't an Incarnate power, with zero downsides ANYWHERE in the game.

My man Hyperstrike over here preachin

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

14 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

My man Hyperstrike over here preachin

Erratic1 · March 17, 2021

11 hours ago, TheDragonborn said:

Against all odds is completely necessary for shield defense, grant cover only benefits teammates and phalanx is better with teammates. id still take phalanx for the auto +def it provides.

Grant Cover gives you (and teammates) DDRand Recharge Debuff resistance:

Erratic1 · March 17, 2021

6 hours ago, StriderIV said:

My man Hyperstrike over here preachin

Though I am a bit confused why he's taking to task posts which are nearing two years old at this point.

Parabola · March 17, 2021

38 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

Grant Cover gives you (and teammates) DDRand Recharge Debuff resistance:

Can't check right now but something in my head is saying the ddr is self only? Could well be wrong but that would make stacking shield users really strong.

Also, this is some impressive thread necromancy going on here!

Hyperstrike · March 17, 2021

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Though I am a bit confused why he's taking to task posts which are nearing two years old at this point.

Because it is beneath a Tank's dignity to look at dates.

I am here to Tank all problems for all times!

Infinitum · March 17, 2021

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Though I am a bit confused why he's taking to task posts which are nearing two years old at this point.

Because he can

StriderIV · March 17, 2021

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Because it is beneath a Tank's dignity to look at dates.

I am here to Tank all problems for all times!

You’re the hero we need, Hyper.

StriderIV · March 17, 2021

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Because he can

HE HAS THE POWWWWWEEEEEERRRR!

Infinitum · March 17, 2021

Everything you need to know about Tanking in one video.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Infinitum

StriderIV · March 17, 2021

52 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Everything you need to know about Tanking in one video.

Extremely accurate, considering only so many can attack him at a time since even Jet can't break the aggro cap.

FUBARczar · May 17, 2021

On 3/17/2021 at 7:40 AM, Hyperstrike said:

Okay, not to put TOO fine a point on this but...

If you are standing around, holding your genitals, idle during a Rage crash.
YOU
ARE
DOING
IT

'nuff said.

Defending the brokenness of rage is doing it wrong.

And sure you can eat that inspiration you were getting woozy about because that does so much. You taunt more people to try and kill you while your defenses are down.

FUBARczar · May 17, 2021

On 3/17/2021 at 7:49 AM, Hyperstrike said:

If you're going SO/Common IO, yes, the Rage crash can be dangerous.

On a tricked-out Invuln/SS build with Incarnates? Nah.
Not even slightly.
Again, look up thread for the build I "double dog dared" someone to tell me was in any way dead meat on a Rage crash.

And again, I seriously doubt needing to eat an occasional Inspie is THAT huge a detriment.

It's not a detriment, it's just stupid. Rage has nothing to do with being Strong. Hey I am so strong...but just not right now...hold on a second... Revamping and renaming the power would be the most fitting for the set and fluid gameplay.

Hyperstrike · May 17, 2021

8 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

It's not a detriment, it's just stupid. Rage has nothing to do with being Strong. Hey I am so strong...but just not right now...hold on a second... Revamping and renaming the power would be the most fitting for the set and fluid gameplay.

Try getting REALLY pissed at someone.

Enough to trigger a nice little adrenaline rush from Fight or Flight.

After a good rush wears off, you feel woozy and weak as a kitten for a short period.

Also, everyone's favorite Green Giant is the ur-example of the power.

8 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

It's not a detriment, it's just stupid. Rage has nothing to do with being Strong. Hey I am so strong...but just not right now...hold on a second... Revamping and renaming the power would be the most fitting for the set and fluid gameplay.

You're welcome to your opinions.

I'm not required to agree with you though.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Hyperstrike

FUBARczar · May 17, 2021

On 3/17/2021 at 7:54 AM, Hyperstrike said:

No. The power simply doesn't fit YOUR conception of Super Strength.

And I'm sorry you feel that way.

Now show me another TWO MINUTE LONG +ToHit/+Dmg combat buff, that isn't an Incarnate power, with zero downsides ANYWHERE in the game.

no one says that there is one or should be one. But you seem pretty good at straw mans, maybe that's what you do during your rage crashes.

And no it's not my concept of Super Strength, Rage is not inherent to being strong, Rage has ZERO to do with Super Strength per se.

FUBARczar · May 17, 2021

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Try getting REALLY pissed at someone.

Enough to trigger a nice little adrenaline rush from Fight or Flight.

After a good rush wears off, you feel woozy and weak as a kitten for a short period.

Also, everyone's favorite Green Giant is the ur-example of the power.

you are conflating physical strength with an emotional/chemical state. You are describing someone increasing their strength via adrenaline, not having super strength. That's why the power and the set should be updated appropriately.

Hyperstrike · May 17, 2021

2 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

no one says that there is one or should be one. But you seem pretty good at straw mans, maybe that's what you do during your rage crashes.

And no it's not my concept of Super Strength, Rage is not inherent to being strong, Rage has ZERO to do with Super Strength per se.

So your gripe is that you disagree with the nomenclature.

...

Okay! Moving on!

Hyperstrike · May 17, 2021

Just now, FUBARczar said:

you are conflating physical strength with an emotional/chemical state. You are describing someone increasing their strength via adrenaline, not having super strength. That's why the power and the set should be updated appropriately.

Because of how we operate.

Things like adrenaline, etc, temporarily boost performance.

And afterwards, you pay for it a bit.

Or are you telling me my A&P and biochem classes were taught wrong?

And why can someone with a modicum of super strength NOT have a performance boost from an analogous adrenal reaction?

C'mon. It's not that hard.

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