Single Target DPS Testing For All Primaries

[Ston]

Back with more spreadsheets! This time I was interested in testing ST DPS for all the blaster primaries. Tried to isolate damage from the primary set as much as possible while throwing in one melee attack from the secondary. I think this was important because most Blasters will be throwing melee attacks in their chain pretty often. I chose Earth Manipulation because it has a fairly standard melee attack (Heavy Mallet) and no damage aura or special mechanics that could swing damage.

The target used was the Mobile Dummy Combatant pet which has the same HP/Stats as a Rikti Pylon.

***
DISCLAIMER:
Yes, procs were used. Force Feedback +Recharge procs were used wherever possible and the usual slotting would be 2 acc/dam HOs + 4 procs. Gaussian's Build Up proc was put into Build Up. The only proc I didn't include was the Decimation Build Up proc. Some sets could get more proc damage than others, but this was something I wanted to see measured. Things will probably look different if it were done on SOs, but not really interested in that testing.
***

 

There were a few surprises:
- Radiation Blast gets a ton of value from the -res procs in Irradiate when using it as a filler attack.
- Seismic Blast does crazy DPS if you are on the ground the entire time and use Stalagmite when it's powered-up.
- Archery has ABYSSMAL ST damage. The 2:01 was actually pretty lucky because most tests with it were closer to 2:10. Tried several different chains, even weaving in Explosive Arrow. It needs some dev help next time blast sets are looked at.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Ston

[StriderIV]

1 hour ago, Ston said:

Back with more spreadsheets! This time I was interested in testing ST DPS for all the blaster primaries. Tried to isolate damage from the primary set as much as possible while throwing in one melee attack from the secondary. I think this was important because most Blasters will be throwing melee attacks in their chain pretty often. I chose Earth Manipulation because it has a fairly standard melee attack (Heavy Mallet) and no damage aura or special mechanics that could swing damage.

The target used was the Mobile Dummy Combatant pet which has the same HP/Stats as a Rikti Pylon.

***
DISCLAIMER:
Yes, procs were used. Force Feedback +Recharge procs were used wherever possible and the usual slotting would be 2 acc/dam HOs + 4 procs. Gaussian's Build Up proc was put into Build Up. The only proc I didn't include was the Decimation Build Up proc. Some sets could get more proc damage than others, but this was something I wanted to see measured. Things will probably look different if it were done on SOs, but not really interested in that testing.
***

 

There were a few surprises:
- Radiation Blast gets a ton of value from the -res procs in Irradiate when using it as a filler attack.
- Seismic Blast does crazy DPS if you are on the ground the entire time and use Stalagmite when it's powered-up.
- Archery has ABYSSMAL ST damage. The 2:01 was actually pretty lucky because most tests with it were closer to 2:10. Tried several different chains, even weaving in Explosive Arrow. It needs some dev help next time blast sets are looked at.

 

 

Thanks for doing the work again Ston! Do you feel this is representative of how the blast sets perform on Def/Cors as well? Or do you think Cors might adjust due to Scourge?

[Ston]

2 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Thanks for doing the work again Ston! Do you feel this is representative of how the blast sets perform on Def/Cors as well? Or do you think Cors might adjust due to Scourge?

 

I'd be interested in doing a test for Defs/Corrs when I get a chance. That'll be next on my list!

But yeah, the results for them will likely be pretty different. They don't have high DPA melee attacks to weave into their chains so they'll have to rely more on their primary attacks. This might mean filling chains with lower damage / aoe powers. I'd imagine most of the list will stay about the same though.

[Nyghtmaire]

Thank you for more of this painstaking work!

 

Question: does this data reflect the most recent balancing that was pushed through in the last update (for example, lowering the recharge in Abyssal Gaze and the cast time of Gloom for Dark Blast; all the changes to Psychic Blast)?

Edited April 28, 2023 by Nyghtmaire
Reading closely helps… *sigh*

[electric_emu]

Is it not worth maintaining Storm Cell for Storm Blast?   

[Nyghtmaire]

3 minutes ago, electric_emu said:

Is it not worth maintaining Storm Cell for Storm Blast?   

Doh! I missed that. Please ignore my question above. 

[Ston]

15 minutes ago, electric_emu said:

Is it not worth maintaining Storm Cell for Storm Blast?   

 

I tried several different tests for Storm and found just using C5 was the fastest. I did a test using Storm Cell, C5, and Intensify as often as they recharged, and that test ended up being the slowest of all around 2:15. So I think the animation time ends up eating into DPS too much, but would definitely be worth it on a full team against larger groups of enemies.

And @Nyghtmaire, yes they reflected the recent Page 6 changes 🙂 Gloom is actually a very strong DPA power now.

[electric_emu]

21 minutes ago, Ston said:

 

I tried several different tests for Storm and found just using C5 was the fastest. I did a test using Storm Cell, C5, and Intensify as often as they recharged, and that test ended up being the slowest of all around 2:15. So I think the animation time ends up eating into DPS too much, but would definitely be worth it on a full team against larger groups of enemies.

And @Nyghtmaire, yes they reflected the recent Page 6 changes 🙂 Gloom is actually a very strong DPA power now.

 

Interesting.  What did your recharge on SC look like?  When recast it replaces the existing one, so you would only really need to cast it twice assuming you can finish in under two minutes (once at the beginning and once at the end of its one minute duration).  If you were recasting every 15-20 seconds I can definitely see it eating into DPS in a big way. 

 

Also, was Storm Cell itself slotted for damage?  Enhancing Storm Cell enhances the procs as I understand it.

Edited April 28, 2023 by electric_emu

[Ston]

20 minutes ago, electric_emu said:

 

Interesting.  What did your recharge on SC look like?  When recast it replaces the existing one, so you would only really need to cast it twice assuming you can finish in under two minutes (once at the beginning and once at the end of its one minute duration).  If you were recasting every 15-20 seconds I can definitely see it eating into DPS in a big way. 

 

Also, was Storm Cell itself slotted for damage?  Enhancing Storm Cell enhances the procs as I understand it.

 

I wasn't aware it replaces like that, I'll try again with that in mind! My recharge was definitely high enough to make them overlap. 

And yeah it had 5 Ragnarok in it, so capped damage & recharge. But these AoE patches typically don't help with this test since a ST attacks usually have better DPA. Ice Blast, for example, is slower when casting Blizzard whenever it's available. But worth testing since Storm has special mechanics.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Ston

[electric_emu]

2 minutes ago, Ston said:

 

I wasn't aware it replaces like that, I'll try again with that in mind! My recharge was definitely high enough to make them overlap. 

And yeah it had 5 Ragnarok in it, so capped damage & recharge. But these AoE patches typically don't help with ST tests since a ST attack usually has better DPA. Ice Blast, for example, is slower when casting Blizzard whenever it's available. 

 

It wouldn't surprise me if ST + Cat 5 is still best.  The SC procs (and added Gust damage) aren't terribly strong.  I'll be interested to see the results though 🙂 

[Maris]

So AR is literally, solidly, "middle of the road" now? 

That's quite a step up!

[Ston]

9 minutes ago, Maris said:

So AR is literally, solidly, "middle of the road" now? 

That's quite a step up!

Yep! The reductions to animation times really gave the set much better feel & performance. It's at the top of the list for AoE and very decent for ST now.

[Bellicose]

Out of curiosity, was Earth Manipulation selected randomly, or was it selected because it, specifically, increases DPA above other secondaries?

I used Mid's Powerset Comparison feature, and it does seem to out-perform the other secondaries, but that's just napkin math on my part.

 

Follow up, was Heavy Mallet selected over Seismic Smash because it's faster activation time?

[MHertz]

How did you adjust for hits and misses? Were all the primary sets comparably accurate during the test?

[dragonhawk777]

Two questions.  Why did you use Musc Radial for Electric Blast and not for the others?  You lower the damage buff from 45% down to 33%.  I can understand using for a build where you are going for increased endurance drain, but if you are doing a damage test you should use the same Alpha Core for all of the power sets.  The other question is you said that Irradiate is giving you a -resistance proc.  The tool tips say that Rad does -defense, did they change it and not update tool tips, did you mis state the proc, or do you have an enhancement giving you a -resistance proc on Irradiate?

 

Can you do a test with the Musc Total Core and show us where Elec falls with that core in the alpha slot?  I havent run a parser, but I do have a bunch of blasters and my Elec blaster doesnt seem to be that far back from my other blasters.  Granted they arent all using the same secondary but ever since the changes to Elec months ago it seems to be performing much closer to the top end primaries than your tests would indicate.

Edited May 1, 2023 by dragonhawk777

[Shred Monkey]

My number one take away is that I need to take another look at heavy mallet.

[Ston]

13 hours ago, Bellicose said:

Out of curiosity, was Earth Manipulation selected randomly, or was it selected because it, specifically, increases DPA above other secondaries?

I used Mid's Powerset Comparison feature, and it does seem to out-perform the other secondaries, but that's just napkin math on my part.

 

Follow up, was Heavy Mallet selected over Seismic Smash because it's faster activation time?

 

I went with Earth Manip because it seemed like a good set with limited variables for DPS testing. You don't have a damage aura or any special mechanics that could swing things. Heavy Mallet is a pretty standard melee attack with a 12s recharge which allowed it to fit in any attack chain. It certainty isn't the top performer, I would give that to Elec, Ninja, or Fire. But the goal was to just use some melee attack that does pretty consistent damage.

And I chose it over a Seismic Smash just because of SS's long recharge time. 20s just didn't really fit well in attack chains and would vary too much across different primaries. 

[Ston]

12 hours ago, dragonhawk777 said:

Two questions.  Why did you use Musc Radial for Electric Blast and not for the others?  You lower the damage buff from 45% down to 33%.  I can understand using for a build where you are going for increased endurance drain, but if you are doing a damage test you should use the same Alpha Core for all of the power sets.  The other question is you said that Irradiate is giving you a -resistance proc.  The tool tips say that Rad does -defense, did they change it and not update tool tips, did you mis state the proc, or do you have an enhancement giving you a -resistance proc on Irradiate?

 

Can you do a test with the Musc Total Core and show us where Elec falls with that core in the alpha slot?  I havent run a parser, but I do have a bunch of blasters and my Elec blaster doesnt seem to be that far back from my other blasters.  Granted they arent all using the same secondary but ever since the changes to Elec months ago it seems to be performing much closer to the top end primaries than your tests would indicate.

This was probably an oversight by me and I was overvaluing the extra endurance modification for Elec Blast. I will re-run the test and see if results change with the extra +dmg. I had been doing some testing with an elec/elec blaster earlier and was getting my best times with Musc Radial, so I carried that over to this test. But it's not getting as much value from the +endmod when using Earth Manip, so I think you're right and that Core would be better here.

Also, yes I was using a -resist proc. Radiation Blast is the only set that can have both Achilles and Fury of the Gladiator -resist procs in its attack chain without including a nuke. It can get Achilles from any of the ST attacks, and then Fury of the Gladiator in Irradiate. 

[Ston]

5 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

My number one take away is that I need to take another look at heavy mallet.

 

Heavy Mallet is good but I think it's far from the best in secondary melee attacks. But I found it was good melee attack to use when focusing on the primary set's DPS. It has a decent recharge rate and animation time. 

But IMO the best melee attacks would probably be Charged Brawl, Energy Punch, Fire Sword, Golden Dragonfly, Smite, TK Thrust, Skewer..

[Ston]

14 hours ago, MHertz said:

How did you adjust for hits and misses? Were all the primary sets comparably accurate during the test?

 

All tests had 95% chance to hit on all attacks

[MHertz]

10 hours ago, Ston said:

 

All tests had 95% chance to hit on all attacks

Chance to hit isn’t the same as actual number of hits. In theory, if the target has equal defense to all damage types, and there are enough attempts, the percentage of actual hits would approach the percentage of expected hits. But it would be helpful to normalize the DPS across the tested (not theoretical) accuracy.

 

You never know. There could be a bug with attacks using multiple damage types, or a run of bad luck with the RNG, 

[Ston]

27 minutes ago, MHertz said:

Chance to hit isn’t the same as actual number of hits. In theory, if the target has equal defense to all damage types, and there are enough attempts, the percentage of actual hits would approach the percentage of expected hits. But it would be helpful to normalize the DPS across the tested (not theoretical) accuracy.

 

You never know. There could be a bug with attacks using multiple damage types, or a run of bad luck with the RNG, 

 

I’ll record times for 5 runs each in the spreadsheet when i get a chance. I do agree that would make it more accurate. I don’t think much would change though. If anything each set might be 5s slower on average but similar variance. 

[Intrinsic]

A combat log parser would be helpful here, to show things like actual hit rates, proc rates, etc.  There's one listed in the Tools subforum, but I haven't tried it so not sure what information it shows.

[ClawsandEffect]

I feel like you'd get better times with Sonic using just about any power other than Shout. It's DPA is the worst out of just about any blast set power in the game. 

 

I'd use Screech there instead. It deals more damage in a shorter animation. 

[Ston]

1 hour ago, ClawsandEffect said:

I feel like you'd get better times with Sonic using just about any power other than Shout. It's DPA is the worst out of just about any blast set power in the game. 

 

I'd use Screech there instead. It deals more damage in a shorter animation. 

 

I’ll give that a try in my next round of testing. Going to do another round with some suggestions in this thread so far.

 

Your suggestion does sound like it’d be more DPS, it just depends on how much recharge is left on Screech after using Shriek/Scream. It might mean Screech needs more recharge enhancing or I’ll need to chase more global recharge to keep the chain gapless. But interested to see if Sonic can squeeze out some more DPS!