Rain Versus Fire

[Rudra]

I know Storm Cell itself does no damage, but I got curious and dropped one on a burning building in Steel Canyon. To my disappointment, the rain did nothing. Would it be possible for Storm Cell's rain to do minor damage to just fires? Not to other mobs, but just fires?

[Greycat]

I guess it would be possible - the extinguishers do that (damage to fires, but not to mobs.)

 

Edit: Though having the extinguishers knock down mobs would be hilarious and give me even more reason to use them that way... >.>

Edited May 19, 2023 by Greycat

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Would it be possible for Storm Cell's rain to do minor damage to just fires? Not to other mobs, but just fires?

And then justify why it affects some fires and not others. Or are you okay with the rain in Storm Cell reduce the damage of all fire attacks in its area of effect, and possibly put out an ignited Oil Slick?

[Rudra]

The only fires I am looking at are the fires that can currently be affected by Water Blast and the fire extinguishers. So no, I would not expect it to put out ignited oil slicks because they are not subject to being put out. Neither would I want or expect it to reduce the damage of any fire attacks. Just like Water Blast doesn't affect fire damage or oil slicks. Just like the fire extinguishers only affect the fires in Steel Canyon (and maybe Mercy Island?, haven't checked).

 

I am not looking at adding any debuffs to the power. I am not looking at making it any more effective against mobs in any capacity. I'm only asking if it would be possible for it to affect specific fires like the fire extinguisher power does.

 

Edit: And yes, I know there are fires not counting the lit oil slicks that are not subject to being affected by Water Blast or the fire extinguishers. I am not looking at being able to affect those either. Just strictly the fires that are currently subject to being put out by player action.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Rudra

[Luminara]

Fire is only affected by Cold damage.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=objects.destructible_fire.resistance

 

There's no way to add Cold damage to any power and have it only affect Fire, either.  Nor would it work to add a unique damage type, something newly created just for this purpose, and flag Fire to be affected by it, because it would still affect everything else, too.  All hostile NPCs would take damage, whatever kind of damage it was.

[Rudra]

What about the extinguishers?

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Extinguisher

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Large_Extinguisher

 

They affect the fires I am talking about just fine and can't harm any mobs in the game. Couldn't that mechanic work here as well?

[Greycat]

21 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And then justify why it affects some fires and not others. Or are you okay with the rain in Storm Cell reduce the damage of all fire attacks in its area of effect, and possibly put out an ignited Oil Slick?

 

What are you even talking about? Are you *aware* of the steel canyon fires and the fire extinguishers - and the fires there and their interaction with players' water and ice powers? There's no "justifying" needed - it's an already existing mechanic, and has been since well into Live. And no, doesn't affect Oil Slick or any other powers.

[Luminara]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:06 PM, Rudra said:

What about the extinguishers?

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Extinguisher

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Large_Extinguisher

 

They affect the fires I am talking about just fine and can't harm any mobs in the game. Couldn't that mechanic work here as well?

 

Extinguishers apply 100% -MaxHealth and restricted to Fire, so yeah, it would be applicable to Storm Cell, and comparatively easy to copy and paste into the power's definition file.

 

But it would also have to be applied to numerous other powers, lest hackles be raised.  Water Spout, Bile Spray, Steam Spray, Geyser, essentially all powers representing a liquid which could smother flames.  That would also raise the question of whether certain other powers, such as the entire Poison set, which also use liquids; wind powers like Gust and Snow Storm; and accepted comic book powers which have been shown to be handy for putting out fires, like Hand Clap, should also have the effect.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

Extinguishers apply 100% -MaxHealth and restricted to Fire, so yeah, it would be applicable to Storm Cell, and comparatively easy to copy and paste into the power's definition file.

 

But it would also have to be applied to numerous other powers, lest hackles be raised.  Water Spout, Bile Spray, Steam Spray, Geyser, essentially all powers representing a liquid which could smother flames.  That would also raise the question of whether certain other powers, such as the entire Poison set, which also use liquids; wind powers like Gust and Snow Storm; and accepted comic book powers which have been shown to be handy for putting out fires, like Hand Clap, should also have the effect.

That's disappointing as hell, but fair. A body can still dream though....

[Arc-Mage]

There was a thread about a year ago where people were listing all the powers in game that should put out fires. 
 

My suggestion was the Hand Clap power as seen in Incredible Hulk. 

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, Greycat said:

What are you even talking about? Are you *aware* of the steel canyon fires and the fire extinguishers - and the fires there and their interaction with players' water and ice powers? There's no "justifying" needed - it's an already existing mechanic, and has been since well into Live. And no, doesn't affect Oil Slick or any other powers.

No... Despite having played CoH from May 8, 2004 to shutdown, then Homecoming since I discovered its existence, I have never once seen a burning building or any of the announcements of fires in the hero events channel. Мудак.

 

And, yes, there is justification needed; existing cold and water powers do their damage to building fires. The OP wants to have a damage effect against "fires" (generically) added to a power that does no damage, and without consideration of all the other powers in the game -- as Luminara iterated -- that have as good or better a claim to being able to damage building fires...

Edited May 21, 2023 by srmalloy

[Rudra]

The OP was about taking an existing mechanic that does not do damage to anything other than fires and applying it to a power that also does not do damage. (The only damage that Storm Cell does is a triggered ability. It itself does no damage.) Those other powers, except for Hand Clap, all do damage. They just don't do the correct damage to be able to affect the fires.

 

(Though for the record, I believe all water powers should do damage to those fires. I just am very aware of how enormous a job that would be and believe it is not worth the effort.)

 

(Edit: Also, I can accept those other powers having as good a claim to being able to affect those fires. Not a better claim. Water is water and a good rain storm is great at putting out small fires like those.)

 

(Edit again: Yes, I know the entire building is on fire, a raging inferno. We put out small fires on the building until the building is destroyed or the fires are all out though.)

Edited May 21, 2023 by Rudra

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And, yes, there is justification needed; existing cold and water powers do their damage to building fires. The OP wants to have a damage effect against "fires" (generically) added to a power that does no damage, and without consideration of all the other powers in the game -- as Luminara iterated -- that have as good or better a claim to being able to damage building fires...

 

And thee VERY FIRST SENTENCE:

 

On 5/19/2023 at 5:51 PM, Rudra said:

I know Storm Cell itself does no damage, but I got curious and dropped one on a burning building in Steel Canyon

 

So, no, it was not particularly "generic" as explained with perhaps a second of reading.

[InvaderStych]

20 hours ago, Luminara said:

But it would also have to be applied to numerous other powers, lest hackles be raised.  Water Spout, Bile Spray, Steam Spray, Geyser, essentially all powers representing a liquid which could smother flames.  That would also raise the question of whether certain other powers, such as the entire Poison set, which also use liquids; wind powers like Gust and Snow Storm; and accepted comic book powers which have been shown to be handy for putting out fires, like Hand Clap, should also have the effect.

 

Setting aside Standard Code Rant for a moment; from a game-play perspective is it really that big of a deal if every power that resembles something the either could realistically put out a fire - also setting aside all the sorts of fires where using water makes them worse - or has been demonstrated in comics (Hulk example above) to put out a fire are tagged as being able to put out the Steel Canyon Fires?

 

I hardly see that stepping on people's Fire Brigade Bob role-play or whatever. Chances are the scattered masses wouldn't even notice the change that suddenly they can hand-clap a fire.

Aren't most fire based obstacles in missions non-destructible anyway? Maybe not, if this is something that affects mission content, then it needs to be looked at more carefully, if it is just about the Hellion Arson event in Steel I don't think I see how its a big deal.

 

 

15 hours ago, srmalloy said:

No... Despite having played CoH from May 8, 2004 to shutdown, then Homecoming since I discovered its existence, I have never once seen a burning building or any of the announcements of fires in the hero events channel.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Hellion_Arson

 

I guess you missed Issue 5 and don't hang out in Steel Canyon much.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Issue_5

 

 

🤷‍♂️

Edited May 21, 2023 by InvaderStych

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Aren't most fire based obstacles in missions non-destructible anyway?

Yes. The only fires I am aware of being subject to being put out (destroyed/defeated) by players are the Steel Canyon event fires and the fires in Mercy island.

[srmalloy]

40 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Hellion_Arson

 

I guess you missed Issue 5 and don't hang out in Steel Canyon much.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Issue_5

🤷‍♂️

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasmBlind

Edited May 21, 2023 by srmalloy

[Rudra]

24 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasmBlind

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasmFailure

 

Edit: Or perhaps this is more accurate in this case:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CannotConveySarcasm

Edited May 22, 2023 by Rudra

[Luminara]

33 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Setting aside Standard Code Rant for a moment; from a game-play perspective is it really that big of a deal if every power that resembles something the either could realistically put out a fire - also setting aside all the sorts of fires where using water makes them worse - or has been demonstrated in comics (Hulk example above) to put out a fire are tagged as being able to put out the Steel Canyon Fires?

 

From a game-play perspective, there's no point putting the ability in any power.  It's one event, in one hero-side zone (no Rogue Isles or Praetoria equivalent), and that event already provides a free temp power expressly designed for that purpose.  

 

The point I was making, though, was that doing it for one power would lead to another drama queen riot.  Doing it for one category of powers, such as "anything made of water", would lead to the same result.  Another round of insults directed at the HC team, accusations of bias, insinuations of favoritism toward power set X or playstyle Y or player subsect Z, et fucking cetera.  If it's not comprehensively applied, we'll be hip deep in snowflake shit faster than you can say, "wut".

[InvaderStych]

30 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasmBlind

 

🙄

 

Cool, so you're not interested in constructively discussing things, just arguing on the internet. Good to know.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

and that event already provides a free temp power expressly designed for that purpose.  

And even lets you use absurd strategies — as a "does this even work?" check, I successfully 'killed' a fire with my DP/EM Blaster using Cryo ammo. It was tedious and painful, and you can't take down fires that way fast enough to save the building, but it does work.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Cool, so you're not interested in constructively discussing things, just arguing on the internet. Good to know.

Well, I suppose that it's theoretically possible to play CoH for seven and a half years and never once even see the fire announcement in chat, by removing Hero-zone event messages from your chat windows, but then you'd lose all the other announcements, too. But apparently believing such an outrageously hyperbolic statement...