Chat Character Limits

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, Razmane said:

You wont see spam from someone who RP's like that. You may see a post every 5-10 minutes that are well thought out posts and furthermore, having the ability to @ a player would be amazing for literally everyone since the chat scroll in large rp events moves so quickly. Also, just because people are too childish to handle something is not a reason to punish those that would use it and use it well.

Except while those that narrative storytell RP may not do that, it is a certainty others will. And that does have to be accounted for. That is why some of the other posters in this thread have said it would be fine if limited to things like team or super group chat, but not to broadcast, help, general, or any other chat channel where such RP would not normally occur anyway.

 

Edit: And honestly I would include local chat for channels where it should be prohibited. Nothing better than trying to talk in say Pocket D for your mission on team chat only for anything you or anyone on your team said to completely disappear under a RP wall of text because others choose to RP in local instead of team chat, and it drives your team's chat out of the window before most anyone on the team even realizes anyone on your team said anything. (Edit again: Maximizing your chat window just to hold a team chat conversation should not be a requirement for players because some RP'ers are throwing their narrative storytelling around rapid-fire. Especially if you're a MM and trying to keep your window from becoming a smear of pets, teammates, random dialogue, and pet control macros.)

Edited June 30, 2023 by Rudra

[Razmane]

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Except while those that narrative storytell RP may not do that, it is a certainty others will. And that does have to be accounted for. That is why some of the other posters in this thread have said it would be fine if limited to things like team or super group chat, but not to broadcast, help, general, or any other chat channel where such RP would not normally occur anyway.

 

Edit: And honestly I would include local chat for channels where it should be prohibited. Nothing better than trying to talk in say Pocket D for your mission on team chat only for anything you or anyone on your team said to completely disappear under a RP wall of text because others choose to RP in local instead of team chat, and it drives your team's chat out of the window before most anyone on the team even realizes anyone on your team said anything. (Edit again: Maximizing your chat window just to hold a team chat conversation should not be a requirement for players because some RP'ers are throwing their narrative storytelling around rapid-fire. Especially if you're a MM and trying to keep your window from becoming a smear of pets, teammates, random dialogue, and pet control macros.)

I dont disagree at all! Hell, even now I have an RP tab and an other tab just for this reason. Though personally, and I do not mean to offend anyone, I would much rather have a wall of text to scroll over than a constant stream of text absolutely obliterating anything anyone in team types. At least with a wall you only have to scroll up once instead of having to find the autoscroll setting and to turn it off. 

To be honest, I would be fine if it was literally restricted to a single, personally created channel that had the ability to modify the chat limit to a reasonable level. Because if someone can someone will. Thats why you see billboards telling people to not touch downed powerlines and PSA's about why you shouldn't lick public toilet seats.

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

So for the first two comments in the other post let me say that this was not in CoX but in other games all together.

 

Okay, but you aren't here to make changes to other games. This is about changes to THE CITY.

The other games are really irrelevant in this discussion.

 

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

It would be an option if it werent for the latter part which I don't understand either, I too started online RP in forums.

 

You didn't understand what I posted.

 

23 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I was playing RPGs before there were text-based RP games on computers.

 

We actually sat in the same room and role-played with each other in real time. No computers. No text. We talked to one another.

People actually still do that.

 

People LARP as well.

I hope that hasn't turned into people standing around in costume in the same club and texting one another.

 

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

Having a graphical representation in some way is nice for some.

 

You can talk on Discord and be in game at the same time.

You can be on Discord and use emotes, move your character around, and even do missions.

 

I'm confused about being able to verbally communicate somehow stops anything that would be not be stopped by texting.

 

I'll even go one further, you can role play and actually keep running missions without needing to text at all if you used Discord.

You could do emotes in-game while talking.

 

You could just go open mic and just rattle on all you wanted to ... and it wouldn't be interfering with anyone else.

 

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

You wont see spam from someone who RP's like that.

 

A message that more than fills my chat window is spam.

 

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

You may see a post every 5-10 minutes that are well thought out posts and furthermore, having the ability to @ a player would be amazing for literally everyone since the chat scroll in large rp events moves so quickly.

 

You can @ a player by sending a tell.

yes. By all means. Send tells. If actually speaking to someone on Discord is too much of a hassle.

 

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

Also, just because people are too childish to handle something is not a reason to punish those that would use it and use it well.

 

you're not being punished.

It would be punishing other people to allow you to post chat messages that more than fill the text window.

 

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

So dropping a wall of text on someone who is not doing the same is often considered a bit rude.

 

Obviously.

That is what you are asking to be able to do. 

He majority don't need the massive amount of words in post that you are suggesting.

 

When I do, usually only in the /help channel, I just send another line of text ... and in total ... I don't think I have ever sent chat messages that were back-to-back without reply the level of word count that you are suggesting.

 

7 hours ago, Razmane said:

The only issue I see is the fact that this game is also enjoyable to play thus I do also want to spend time playing it.

 

I want you to enjoy playing it as well.

I think it is a great game that allows us to be very creative.

I understand that your RP is an expression of your creativity, and I'm not trying to limit that.

 

You would be able to generate far more words faster in Discord than typing them into text chat. It would also enable immediate interactive response.

 

8 hours ago, Razmane said:

Where Conan Exiles as a game is pretty awful, but the tools that it offers to RP'ers is pretty amazing. Any game that offers those kinds of tools tend to last a long time, take Neverwinter nights, there are player made servers in that game that have been running for close to 20 years because of how well the game caters to RP. I would just like to see the same from this game. 

 

Everquest (I can't remember if it is 1 or 2 or just two) allows voice chat.

Not only just voice chat, but you distort your voice to fit your characters sex and race.
Not only that, but if you use a camera, the game will make your characters face react based on your facial reactions.

 

Do I want that here in THE CITY? No.

Would I use those things on a Discord channel? I wouldn't.

 

For those that have been text chatting RP for 20 years, then that is what they are ingrained in doing.

They are doing that because that is what they are used to doing versus having better solutions. 

 

We used to dream about making a game like City of Heroes when we were playing Champions with the original box set.

You know. Sitting in the same room. most of the time not even using a map. Rolling dice and having fun face to face.

 

I don't think that Discord is such a bad option versus trying to change how a games text features that work perfectly well.

Anything you could say in one text block could be said over multiple text message.

 

The main gain I can see from larger text blocks is not allowing people to interact with you while you are typing the next sentence.

Which, honestly, is seeming to be the reason that you don't want to verbally communicate in the first place.

[biostem]

Maybe allow the unlimited chat option in team, SG, and custom chat channels only, to limit the flooding of uninvolved party's chat windows or to prevent such a feature from being used as a sort of "Heckler's Veto"...

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

The main gain I can see from larger text blocks is not allowing people to interact with you while you are typing the next sentence.

That is actually the point/reason of narrative storytelling RP in CoX. To ensure no one interacts with you prior to finishing the scene setting you wanted to convey.

[Arc-Mage]

IAWTP, there has been TWO times in the last 19 years that I would have liked to have had more then 500 characters. 

[Razmane]

17 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Okay, but you aren't here to make changes to other games. This is about changes to THE CITY.

The other games are really irrelevant in this discussion.

Its a broader point, as there are other games that would lend themselves well to rp if they had the right tools. 

 

 

Quote

We actually sat in the same room and role-played with each other in real time. No computers. No text. We talked to one another.

People actually still do that.

 

People LARP as well.

I hope that hasn't turned into people standing around in costume in the same club and texting one another.

 

I know, its shocking. Though, computers make things a lot easier on the dms and a lot more fun for the players as well. But that is a different conversation.

 

Quote

You can talk on Discord and be in game at the same time.

You can be on Discord and use emotes, move your character around, and even do missions.

 

I'm confused about being able to verbally communicate somehow stops anything that would be not be stopped by texting.

 

I'll even go one further, you can role play and actually keep running missions without needing to text at all if you used Discord.

You could do emotes in-game while talking.

 

You could just go open mic and just rattle on all you wanted to ... and it wouldn't be interfering with anyone else.

Voice rp is alright but not the same, at all. Much like the difference between sitting at a table and talking about it verses LARPing and having the body language there with you. 90% of communication is non-verbal, that is what the text is for, it sends queues, speaks to moods, lends itself to a more mature read. Its the difference between reading Hannibal and Dr. Seuss. One is well written and interesting and the other is a handful of words with pictures.

Though, voice RP while running missions is fun and somewhat interesting but it still lacks what that written post can offer. 

 

Quote

A message that more than fills my chat window is spam.

 

37 messages back to back in rapid succession is spam, a single message would be a post.

 

Quote

You can @ a player by sending a tell.

yes. By all means. Send tells. If actually speaking to someone on Discord is too much of a hassle.

 

 

you're not being punished.

It would be punishing other people to allow you to post chat messages that more than fill the text window.

You can only tell a single person, though a team chat would work nice as well, even then though the option to @ people in the team to let them know something in there is directed at them would be more than helpful.

It strips from what rp can be had. Not so much punishment as it is only catering to one type of RP.
If reading a thousand characters or simply moving past it is too much (unless said person is constantly reposting the message as spam) to handle in the name of letting people enjoy their type of RP, then those are not really people I am interested in interacting with on any level, they can simply block the person and move on.

 

Quote

Obviously.

That is what you are asking to be able to do. 

He majority don't need the massive amount of words in post that you are suggesting.

 

When I do, usually only in the /help channel, I just send another line of text ... and in total ... I don't think I have ever sent chat messages that were back-to-back without reply the level of word count that you are suggesting.

 

No, what I am asking to do is to be able to post a longer post, if it matches the energy of RP that I am receiving. If not then being able to post something longer if I am starting RP with someone who matches my style.

Again, a thousand characters is not a massive amount of words, its about a paragraph. Most of the time what I come out of a scene with is something that reads like a book. Thats why I enjoy doing. It could be done quicker, sure, but emotes and animations do not engage my imagination in the same way that descriptive posts do.

There are games, like I mentioned earlier, that utilize voice chat and voice changers for those that cant voice act, but even that doesnt do it. I just came from one like that and it had me missing the descriptive walls of text. If well done, respectful, and engaging, if not than yeah, its often just painful.   

 

Quote

I want you to enjoy playing it as well.

I think it is a great game that allows us to be very creative.

I understand that your RP is an expression of your creativity, and I'm not trying to limit that.

 

You would be able to generate far more words faster in Discord than typing them into text chat. It would also enable immediate interactive response.

 

Thats exactly it. The creativity that can be had in this game, through outfits, character creation, base building, and the Architect missions is amazing. You can tell whole stories with all this game has to offer, and thats what draws people into this kind of space to RP. Most of fine with the limited text, and that is great for them. I and others like me, however, are stuck with what we have, which at current is conan, ffxiv, and WoW. I would like to be able to add a scifi game to that list but I am having the hardest time finding one. But more importantly, I would love to add this game to the list but any time I bring that type of RP'er here they tend not to stay, for the same reason I made this post about. They do however always end up loving this game, which who can blame them.

 

Quote

Everquest (I can't remember if it is 1 or 2 or just two) allows voice chat.

Not only just voice chat, but you distort your voice to fit your characters sex and race.
Not only that, but if you use a camera, the game will make your characters face react based on your facial reactions.

 

Do I want that here in THE CITY? No.

Would I use those things on a Discord channel? I wouldn't.

I dont want this either, while the camera thing seems like it would add the thing that I am talking about, because it kind of would, it wouldn't offer what I am looking for.

Even conan has a puppeteer mod that gives you the ability to do all sorts of facial and body animations, and while cool, thats not what adds to the flavor of the text. Its the typist on the other end that offers it. I've written scenes with people that were absolute tear jerkers, it makes it hard when that text is limited. No amount of looking into a camera and making faces would elicit the same reaction for me.

Quote

For those that have been text chatting RP for 20 years, then that is what they are ingrained in doing.

They are doing that because that is what they are used to doing versus having better solutions. 

 

We used to dream about making a game like City of Heroes when we were playing Champions with the original box set.

You know. Sitting in the same room. most of the time not even using a map. Rolling dice and having fun face to face.

 

I don't think that Discord is such a bad option versus trying to change how a games text features that work perfectly well.

Anything you could say in one text block could be said over multiple text message.

 

The main gain I can see from larger text blocks is not allowing people to interact with you while you are typing the next sentence.

Which, honestly, is seeming to be the reason that you don't want to verbally communicate in the first place.

 

First off, with the people that I play with, constantly firing text at someone without giving them a chance to respond is seen as rude period. If it is done in rapid fire posts or 4 separate paragraphs is highly frowned upon. That stops being RP and quickly becomes a words per minute battle. You post in response to what the person sent you and react as your character would, adding a retort, question, quip, or insult as it fits. 

That last statement actually helps me make my point because that is a lot of what I see from the RP here. The style of RP I do is a post, wait, respond style of RP. If people are just constantly interacting with you and not giving you a chance to respond then I am not part of a scene, I am witness to a monologue. One can adapt what they said, or perhaps add in something they may of missed, but that just comes off like talking over someone face to face or berating them with questions that they have no time to answer. Ideally, you offer back something along the lines of what you get, match the energy and build the momentum of the scene to move it forward. 

 We have just RP'd over discord and its not that bad but what it lacks is the set dressing that games offer. So, in a game, you can see the room. So if Character A walks Character B into a bar area of their home Character B's reaction is going to be a lot different that if they were walked into shooting range, ritual room, or dungeon. And character A doesn't have to paint that picture for them. CoX offers a massive toolset to work with, giving a lot of options on how to set the scene, anything from fantasy to scifi. I would simply like to be able to utilize that with my style of RP and I could easily do that with SG chat limits, or team limits, or custom chat limits increased as to be non-invasive to others.

 

 

[Razmane]

15 hours ago, Rudra said:

That is actually the point/reason of narrative storytelling RP in CoX. To ensure no one interacts with you prior to finishing the scene setting you wanted to convey.

I do not think this is the style I am speaking of then. Though as I covered in the other post, interacting with someone prior to them having the chance to respond to you is considered rude in the style that my group uses. As would be you offering a simple intro emote and then me taking 20 minutes to write a four paragraph info dump in response. 

Also, if you use my earlier example that I gave to you. If the person that I was meeting in that bar came running up to me because he saw me and offered his own post, I would simply respond to that in kind. I dont HAVE to post what I want to start a scene, its simply how I like to respond. Like, ending an emote with an outstretched hand offering to shake on a deal, or that my character rolls his eyes before he speaks, or what kind of tone he speaks with, or any of the many many things that can help translate emotion to raw text and offer context. Think of the difference between.

Rax says, "Hello."

verses 

 

Rax lets out a long, exasperated sigh before saying, "Hello."

 

That is all, but sometimes more text is called for, more is said, or more is offered. Having more room to write would be awesome if the situation calls for it. Hell, even if it was just an option in SG bases that could be set by the owner it would be cool.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Razmane

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, Rudra said:

That is actually the point/reason of narrative storytelling RP in CoX. To ensure no one interacts with you prior to finishing the scene setting you wanted to convey.

 

oh, I see.

So it's like forcing your AE mission on the people around you instead of them deciding they want to play it?

 

Weird. I RP all the time and I don't have to do all that "scene setting" stuff.

 

Do they really bother reading each others scene setup when they are standing around in the same place?

So when each person walk up to start to interact they are expected to scene setup with 1000+ words before interacting with the others?

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, Razmane said:

computers make things a lot easier on the dms

 

The DEVs are the "dms".

If you are running an RP group within THE CITY that is your sub game within the game. 

 

Who knows. Maybe the DEVs will decide it is your turn for attention.

I'm against it, so I'm going to stop posting to this thread which helps promote the discussion of something I don't want.

 

I was enjoying interacting with you, but this is counterproductive at this point.

I hope to see you in THE CITY.
Have fun.

(plus I'm too tired at the moment to reply more to this post. sleep calls.)

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Fagiolina said:

The level of passive aggressiveness in this post is beyond inappropriate considering this is a suggestion made by another member of the same community you're part of.
 
"Shotgun posting"  or RP-spamming as a term is usually what  people who post multiple times without allowing others to respond first do for they further a scene without letting everyone catch up to it. It's another matter entirely. When you're roleplaying within a group of more than two it is common courtesy to allow everyone to respond before you would, some people do, some people don't. I like to deal with it IC, if a character is constantly spitting words without letting my own character react, they get called out for it ICly. 😄
 
On that account, I personally find short and continuous posts more aggravating than a wall of texts every once in a while, at the same time incrementing the chat length limit wouldn't force you folks to type more than two phrases per post so that one issue wouldn't even be touched.
 
But that's not even the point and everyone seems to be missing it!
 
Razmane here suggested an increment in the character limit for majority of people do enjoy longer posts and as it stands now, we have to split our posts in 5-6 more texts, which doesn't work well with the shotgun posters even though a (c) as continuation is being put at the end of each single post. It's nothing that would change YOUR roleplay experience, it would certainly make it easier for para-posters to enjoy RP as much as short-posters enjoy their own. 
 
This has literally nothing to do with you. It has to do with people who enjoy typing.

Here's something to consider. While you may find short posts more aggravating than long ones, for those trying to interact with their teammates/friends, at least if they are like me, it is far easier to sort up through several short posts than scale multiple long ones trying to find the comment I need to read in team chat. To each their own, but everything we do in the presence of others affects them whether we realize it or not. And most times I find myself in Pocket D, a zone I avoid these days except during the specific events or to fast-change my alignment, I find my chat window becomes a wall of text from individuals not anywhere near me because of the radius for local chat and the fact they prefer to RP in local chat instead of team chat or SG chat. That means that even though I am not doing anything with those individuals, I am still affected by them. Does it always happen? Not at all. It does happen though. And on multiple occasions, I've had to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll through character limit posts before finally reaching my team mate's comment that briefly flashed across the chat window.

 

Edit: To re-emphasize, to each their own. Have fun. If the devs want to increase the character limit per post? I don't care as long as it is not local, broadcast, or other general use chat channels. If they can differentiate the character limits between channels and not cause other problems in the game? Sure, go for it.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Rudra

[Razmane]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Here's something to consider. While you may find short posts more aggravating than long ones, for those trying to interact with their teammates/friends, at least if they are like me, it is far easier to sort up through several short posts than scale multiple long ones trying to find the comment I need to read in team chat. To each their own, but everything we do in the presence of others affects them whether we realize it or not. And most times I find myself in Pocket D, a zone I avoid these days except during the specific events or to fast-change my alignment, I find my chat window becomes a wall of text from individuals not anywhere near me because of the radius for local chat and the fact they prefer to RP in local chat instead of team chat or SG chat. That means that even though I am not doing anything with those individuals, I am still affected by them. Does it always happen? Not at all. It does happen though. And on multiple occasions, I've had to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll through character limit posts before finally reaching my team mate's comment that briefly flashed across the chat window.

 

Edit: To re-emphasize, to each their own. Have fun. If the devs want to increase the character limit per post? I don't care as long as it is not local, broadcast, or other general use chat channels. If they can differentiate the character limits between channels and not cause other problems in the game? Sure, go for it.

 

There is something that is a huge misunderstanding here, and I am thinking I am starting to see it. Any RP inside of a mission or the like will always be short, there is simply not enough time to do these types of posts. This kind of stuff is the stuff that you do back in your base or while you are only doing RP. 

 

I have mentioned conan before, there that is the only type of RP because the game itself sucks, there is literally not gameplay inspiring enough to warrent RPing through. Though, there were a few times we did dungeons and whatnot in it and that rp was always drastically shorter.

So, for clarification. Mission RP short, character development rp between 2-4 characters only doing rp, longer. Long posts in missions would bother me deeply as well. 

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Razmane said:

 

There is something that is a huge misunderstanding here, and I am thinking I am starting to see it. Any RP inside of a mission or the like will always be short, there is simply not enough time to do these types of posts. This kind of stuff is the stuff that you do back in your base or while you are only doing RP. 

 

I have mentioned conan before, there that is the only type of RP because the game itself sucks, there is literally not gameplay inspiring enough to warrent RPing through. Though, there were a few times we did dungeons and whatnot in it and that rp was always drastically shorter.

So, for clarification. Mission RP short, character development rp between 2-4 characters only doing rp, longer. Long posts in missions would bother me deeply as well. 

You are misunderstanding what I am saying. When I RP, it is only with my friends, in team chat. Even if we are doing a mission. And our RP is never long post. My comments are about when my friends and I are on a team, and others not on our team that aren't even near us are doing long post, narrative storytelling RP in local chat. If it is a single group? The wall of text is slow in coming. Usually only a single post or two. When Pocket D is busy and we need to be in it for whatever reason, so there are multiple groups doing Narrative Storytelling RP in local chat? Our own comments in team chat, usually for in-Pocket D missions, are lost under a wall of multiple long post RP that requires us to page up through mounds of text to find what anyone said about the mission we are about to do.

 

I don't care how long anyone's RP posts are, as long as they are done in their team chat or their super group chat. It is the players that absolutely insist on doing their long post narrative storytelling in local that I am worried about the OP exacerbating. Especially when sometimes it feels like multiple groups of narrative storytelling RP'ers seem to be in competition to see who can drown out the other group's RP the best.

[Razmane]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I don't care how long anyone's RP posts are, as long as they are done in their team chat or their super group chat. It is the players that absolutely insist on doing their long post narrative storytelling in local that I am worried about the OP exacerbating. Especially when sometimes it feels like multiple groups of narrative storytelling RP'ers seem to be in competition to see who can drown out the other group's RP the best.

That is an issue I have run into a lot with all kinds of RP already here. I generally cannot stay too long because the constant stream of stockmarket text never ends. I dont mind people rp'ing publicly, I do mind that competition you mentioned though. That however is a problem that already exists in the game, I do not know if this would make it better or worse. I dont rp in the D for that exact reason, its hard to see whats going on or follow any rp. 

[golstat2003]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:03 AM, Razmane said:

I wanted to make a suggestion, raising chat character limits. This is more because rp'ers love their walls of text, descriptive posts, and the like. I feel that this simple thing would add so much to the game. 1000 or even 500 characters would open up so much for the rp'ers among us.

 

That's it, nothing too special 🙂

 

I never even knew there existed a chat character limit. lol

[golstat2003]

15 hours ago, Razmane said:

That is an issue I have run into a lot with all kinds of RP already here. I generally cannot stay too long because the constant stream of stockmarket text never ends. I dont mind people rp'ing publicly, I do mind that competition you mentioned though. That however is a problem that already exists in the game, I do not know if this would make it better or worse. I dont rp in the D for that exact reason, its hard to see whats going on or follow any rp. 

 

It would make it worse. Which is why folks are asking for some limits to which channels it can be in.

[MHertz]

There’s an easy compromise. Charge by the letter. Different rates for different channels.

 

HELP: free.

GENERAL: first 100 characters free, then 10 inf/letter.

LFG: free, but 10,000,000 for each letter in the word FARM.

LOCAL: Free when your speaking range is set below a certain threshold.

BROADCAST: Your character is deleted.

[Razmane]

7 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

I never even knew there existed a chat character limit. lol

 

Yeah, I think its about 250 characters. That may sound like a lot but its far from enough for good posts.

 

7 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

It would make it worse. Which is why folks are asking for some limits to which channels it can be in.

 

I mean, you're probably not wrong when it comes to a lot of the stuff that randomly happens around. I would hope it would at least be well written spam but thats just me be hopeful.

 

7 hours ago, MHertz said:

There’s an easy compromise. Charge by the letter. Different rates for different channels.

 

HELP: free.

GENERAL: first 100 characters free, then 10 inf/letter.

LFG: free, but 10,000,000 for each letter in the word FARM.

LOCAL: Free when your speaking range is set below a certain threshold.

BROADCAST: Your character is deleted.

 

Small correction. LOCAL: Free every 30 seconds. 10000 per every post before cooldown.

The rest I totally agree with lol

[Arc-Mage]

Just throwing this out there. Maybe do something like the PvP auto slot rule. If you choose to take the 500+ character chat option that toon will only ever be able to exist in PvP.