New mastermind pets

[stonebrute]

Hi 

 

I don't know the best place to add a suggestion like this, sorry if this is the wrong place. I usually play brutes & have made a couple MMs from the live days, had an idea for new mastermind pets, Winter Horde & Red Caps both could be really fun & are not really used for anything outside of winter events.

 

[Rudra]

Welcome to the forums and yes, this is the place for your suggestion.

 

First thing is a note. The Red Caps are very much present year-round in Croatoa. In case you haven't done the Croatoa arcs yet, I will refrain from saying anything else on that.

 

Second thing is a couple of questions. Would they be new MM power sets or alternate pets for existing MM power sets? If their own power sets, what attacks do you think the MM character should have access to for each set?

[OverkillEngine]

Even some Elemental Summoning sets would be nice, there are a plethora of existing pet models and powers across the control and blast sets and in enemy groups that could be used as at least a starting point for making a decent number of new primaries for MM's.

As is they have a paltry 7; and are very theme/aesthetics limited in how they can present them. Just hacking together the 4 classical elements alone as new primaries with the same options for FX customization as the powersets they are drawn from would be a huge boost in build options.

[Akisan]

On 7/8/2023 at 1:31 AM, Rudra said:

Second thing is a couple of questions. Would they be new MM power sets or alternate pets for existing MM power sets? If their own power sets, what attacks do you think the MM character should have access to for each set?

 

For Red Caps?  Definitely Archery.  Maybe some stabbing with kitchen knives.  Could also be some sorcery/energy attacks in there, like the Cabal do, to signifiy the magics required to bind such creatures.

[biostem]

3 hours ago, Akisan said:

For Red Caps?  Definitely Archery.

Ninjas already have archery.  Maybe give them energy blast attacks, only with different secondary effects to represent generic magic attacks...

[Akisan]

7 minutes ago, biostem said:

Ninjas already have archery.  Maybe give them energy blast attacks, only with different secondary effects to represent generic magic attacks...

 

Fair.  I do have 1 requested attack though - give the MM the attack that throws one of the small, bomb-wearing red caps at their victim (same as what the Fiends use)

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Akisan said:

Fair.  I do have 1 requested attack though - give the MM the attack that throws one of the small, bomb-wearing red caps at their victim (same as what the Fiends use)

Hmm... maybe a combination of 2 seismic blast attacks, (since the Redcaps burrow and live underground), plus the "throw-a-redcap" one as the AoE when their black powder pack detonates, could work...

[Akisan]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

Hmm... maybe a combination of 2 seismic blast attacks, (since the Redcaps burrow and live underground)

 

 I was thinking something like that for their Upgrade powers - have all of your minions burrow briefly, then re-emerge with new (better) gear. Could work well though, if we went the route of the MM being a Redcap themselves, instead of a Cabal Maven that's bound them.

[Rudra]

I like where you two are going with this. So something random to add to the discourse:

 

What if the Red Cap MM was a melee MM instead of a ranged one and used a Scythe for the first 2 attacks, chucked the bomb-wearing goblin for the 3rd attack, and the 4th not-pet power could be a targeted AoE that used Red Caps (or something else) that popped out of the ground at the target location briefly, went nuts trying to kill everything, and then died/went away? Sort of like Gang War, except that it is a TAoE attack instead of a group of weaker pets that can move around and fight? (So whatever popped out of the ground would only be for animation, no actual Red Caps or whatever.)

 

Edit:

As for the Winter Horde, they could be renamed as pets, the MM given Ice Blast attacks obviously, and become an Ice MM set. (Which is the obvious solution I was expecting as response, but don't think I saw in the thread.)

 

Edit Again: There is a problem with the idea though. All MM pets are lieutenants and degrade (in level) as their numbers increase. And the proposed pets are not all lieutenants. Even if they were not subject to negative levels based on their numbers, the minions would die even faster than the current T1 pets, and the bosses would be stronger than current T3 pets. So maybe they would need to have alternate versions of each made specifically for the MM that made them all lieutenants?

Edited July 9, 2023 by Rudra

[Rhodeislander]

Winter Horde with Cold Blasts is a neat idea. The upgrade visuals could just be cold aura effects added, although the unique special power (the one that Thugs have as Gang War) is hard to figure.

 

Red Caps is even tougher, because they're so melee focused. As someone mentions above, Archery could be a blast for it but it would be shared with Ninja.

 

Personally, I would love the use of the Apparition enemy group (the psionic ghosts found I think in First Ward). A Psionic MM pet set with Psychic Blasts I feel would be a good addition.

[Drewbae]

I would love a mastermind with the pets of heroes/villains. It would be cool to get minions that are based on the current classes we have but mini kits, of course, like 3 blasters (fire, ice, electric), 2 controllers (lllusion, mind), 1 bruiser or something. It would be cool to roleplay as the mastermind of a hero group

Edited July 10, 2023 by Drewbae

[Heartsong928]

On 7/9/2023 at 11:04 AM, OverkillEngine said:

Even some Elemental Summoning sets would be nice, there are a plethora of existing pet models and powers across the control and blast sets and in enemy groups that could be used as at least a starting point for making a decent number of new primaries for MM's.

As is they have a paltry 7; and are very theme/aesthetics limited in how they can present them. Just hacking together the 4 classical elements alone as new primaries with the same options for FX customization as the powersets they are drawn from would be a huge boost in build options.

I came here just because this occurred to me too.  3 fire imps, 2 earth golems, one large Electric golem?  A mix of storm blast, ice blast, fire, and lightning for the MM non-pet powers?

[SwitchFade]

Rubber chicken horde. Please.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Heartsong928 said:

I came here just because this occurred to me too.  3 fire imps, 2 earth golems, one large Electric golem?

...and a partridge in a pear tree...

[OverkillEngine]

2 hours ago, Heartsong928 said:

I came here just because this occurred to me too.  3 fire imps, 2 earth golems, one large Electric golem?  A mix of storm blast, ice blast, fire, and lightning for the MM non-pet powers?

I was thinking of actually a separate set for each element, just like how the elemental blast sets are.

For example, Earth Elemental Summoning could crib models, FX, and powers from the Minions of Igneous, while the non pet/pet buff powers are drawn from Seismic Blast. Over all damage types for that set would be mainly smashing, with maybe some lethal, toxic, and fire sprinkled in.

Then do similar with the other elements to make specific sets to each element. Would possibly save some design time and effort since they would not have to make something from complete scratch.

Edit: as far as appearance customization, could maybe port the Illusion set Phantom Army functionality where the golem pets can be a clone of the master to at least have something other than the default.

Edited August 2, 2023 by OverkillEngine

[megaericzero]

14 hours ago, Heartsong928 said:

I came here just because this occurred to me too.  3 fire imps, 2 earth golems, one large Electric golem?  A mix of storm blast, ice blast, fire, and lightning for the MM non-pet powers?

 

My OCD wants to say 3 imps, 2 gremlins, and 1 stone to parallel the control sets. 😛

 

The elements getting representation would be nice, either as individual sets or as a single Elementals/Golems set, with or without Swap Ammo-style mechanics.

[biostem]

17 hours ago, Heartsong928 said:

I came here just because this occurred to me too.  3 fire imps, 2 earth golems, one large Electric golem?  A mix of storm blast, ice blast, fire, and lightning for the MM non-pet powers?

I would really diversify the pets:

 

T1:

Dust Devil (As per Scirocco's power)

Water Spout (As per the Leviathan Mastery power)

Fireball (Per the Animus Arcana NPC)

 

T2:

Lightning Storm (Animus Arcana)

Cloud of Ice (Animus Arcana)

 

T3:

Magmite Lord (As per the Minions of Igneous NPC)

 

 

Then the Mastermind's personal attacks would be:

1. Encase (Seismic blast)

2. Hydro Blast (Water blast)

3. Fireball (Fire blast)

 

And their "special ability" would be a modified version of Category Five from Storm blast - using your own attacks, or attacks made by your minions within the storm can trigger the special effects, like lightning strikes, and so-forth.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by biostem

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I would really diversify the pets:

 

T1:

Dust Devil (As per Scirocco's power)

Water Spout (As per the Leviathan Mastery power)

Fireball (Per the Animus Arcana NPC)

 

T2:

Lightning Storm (Animus Arcana)

Cloud of Ice (Animus Arcana)

 

T3:

Magmite Lord (As per the Minions of Igneous NPC)

 

 

Then the Mastermind's personal attacks would be:

1. Encase (Seismic blast)

2. Hydro Blast (Water blast)

3. Fireball (Fire blast)

 

And their "special ability" would be a modified version of Category Five from Storm blast - using your own attacks, or attacks made by your minions within the storm can trigger the special effects, like lightning strikes, and so-forth.

 

Busy. This suggestion is very busy in my view. Anyway, some concerns I have on this:

 

Minor concerns:

All proposed pets would need to be converted over to lieutenant strength to maintain pet balance.

All Animus Arcana and the Magmite Lord would need powers removed and tied into the MM pet upgrade powers to maintain balance.

All Animus Arcana pets would likely need new powers created to be granted them via pet upgrade to maintain balance.

 

Moderate concerns:

The Dust Devils power from Scirocco conjures 3 at a time, has a set duration before they go away, and is WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY overpowered for a T1 MM pet even for a single one.

The dust devils from the Dust Devils power have no HP and are not subject to attacks. Making them very difficult (in my opinion) to make into a viable MM pet.

The Water Spout power has a set duration before it goes away and has no HP, making it not subject to being attacked. This makes it difficult to convert into a viable MM pet in my opinion.

 

Major concerns:

Granting the MM the Category 5 power from Storm Blast, even modified, would be extremely overpowered if the pets were also able to build up its power.

 

Proposed changes to suggestion:

Replace the Dust Devil with a modified lieutenant strength Bedrock.

Replace the Water Spout with a modified lieutenant strength Jack Frost.

Either prohibit pets from adding to the modified Category 5, or replace Category 5 with a player version of Scirocco's Dust Devils power.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove line offset (tab) due to post alignment not matching write-up alignment.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This suggestion is very busy in my view. Anyway, some concerns I have

All of which could be addressed by adjusting the powers referenced.  None of this would be a straight copy-paste of their original versions.  I mean, Necromancy gets life drain at level 8, whereas other characters have to wait at least until level 22.  With a mastermind's damage scale, Cat 5 could absolutely be adjusted to be balanced, especially considering it'd be up against the likes of Gang War...

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

All of which could be addressed by adjusting the powers referenced.  None of this would be a straight copy-paste of their original versions.  I mean, Necromancy gets life drain at level 8, whereas other characters have to wait at least until level 22.  With a mastermind's damage scale, Cat 5 could absolutely be adjusted to be balanced, especially considering it'd be up against the likes of Gang War...

Fair. However, I would still recommend replacing the proposed dust devil and water spout with actual mobs that can be killed currently. And I would still recommend not letting pet attacks empower/trigger the Cat 5.

[biostem]

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Fair. However, I would still recommend replacing the proposed dust devil and water spout with actual mobs that can be killed currently. And I would still recommend not letting pet attacks empower/trigger the Cat 5.

Why would you think that these proposed MM pets couldn't be attacked?  You'd really only be using their character model.  Do you honestly think that Cat 5, even with pets being able to trigger the special effects, would be more OP than Gang War?  Have you played storm blast?

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Have you played storm blast?

Yes.

 

9 minutes ago, biostem said:

Why would you think that these proposed MM pets couldn't be attacked?  You'd really only be using their character model.

I am well aware of that. However, using existing defeatable mobs as the base helps streamline the creation process since all that would need to be done is shift them to lieutenant strength and possibly rescale the model, particularly given the volunteer status and size of our dev team, and possibly increases the likelihood of implementation. Barring those two concerns? The new pets derived from a dust devil and water spout would be more interesting and desirable.

 

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Do you honestly think that Cat 5, even with pets being able to trigger the special effects, would be more OP than Gang War?

When a Storm Blast character uses Category 5, they only have their own attacks to empower/trigger it. If the MM's pets could also do so, that is 6 extra "players" empowering/triggering the modified Category 5. As compared to Gang War, which seems to be the best of the MM T7s, which summons minions of the MM's level. I am less inclined to make more Gang Wars and more inclined to make more Serums (AoE instead) and Fortify Packs. Just my personal view on the matter.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I am well aware of that. However, using existing defeatable mobs as the base helps streamline the creation process since all that would need to be done is shift them to lieutenant strength and possibly rescale the model, particularly given the volunteer status and size of our dev team, and possibly increases the likelihood of implementation.

Has the HC team created *any* new MM primaries?  AFAIK, no.  As such, what is your basis for saying that "using existing defeatable mobs as the base helps streamline the creation process"?  We have zero precedents to work from, here...

 

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

When a Storm Blast character uses Category 5, they only have their own attacks to empower/trigger it. If the MM's pets could also do so, that is 6 extra "players" empowering/triggering the modified Category 5.

All of which could be easily adjusted.

 

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I am less inclined to make more Gang Wars and more inclined to make more Serums (AoE instead) and Fortify Packs. Just my personal view on the matter.

As i stated multiple times, a pet-empowered Cat 5 could/would still be less than Gang War...

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

Has the HC team created *any* new MM primaries?  AFAIK, no.  As such, what is your basis for saying that "using existing defeatable mobs as the base helps streamline the creation process"?  We have zero precedents to work from, here...

Because those entities already exist complete with attacks, damage scale, resists, HP, defense, and movement. All that would need to be done with them is adjust their tier to lieutenant and possibly adjust their model size. As opposed to taking an existing model that lacks HP, resist, defense, or even recharging attacks, and generating all that from scratch. Or taking the models, poaching attacks from another source, and then re-animating the attacks to mesh with the different model, while still needing to create from scratch the missing elements of HP, resist, and defense to make sure they stay in line with current MM pets.

 

(Edit: Especially if the dust devil and water spout retain their deal damage by occupying the same area as the target(s) instead of using recharging attacks, which would need to be toned down while still figuring their survival to maintain balance.)

Edited August 2, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Because those entities already exist complete with attacks, damage scale, resists, HP, defense, and movement. All that would need to be done with them is adjust their tier to lieutenant and possibly adjust their model size.

But you don't *know* that.  You have no basis to make the statement that existing NPCs need only be adjusted to become MM pets.  All you have is your guess, as educated as it may be.