Anyone ran Bots/Cold or Bots/Rad?

[Xandyr]

 I admit...I haven't played Bots in like...forever. Since the revamp, I've been busy playing Mercs and Necro that I haven't even thought about the changes to Bots. Anyway, today I took a look.

 

 The 3 attacks you can take each lower Regen by 200%. So, you can lower Regen by 600% just by attacking. If you pair Bots with Cold or Raditaion, you can get another 500% Regen debuff from Benumb or Lingering Radiation respectively. That's -1100% Regen debuff !!! I believe paired with Cold, you'd have extremely sturdy pets, and insane amounts of -regen.

 

 So...anyone tried this combo? If so, how is it and how did you build it?

 

With Bots, what "secrets" does anyone have on slotting Equip and Upgrade Robot? I'm assuming the Imp Skin unique works in Equip? Does the Heal Procs (Panacea, Numina's) work in Upgrade Robot? 

 

Thanks

- X

[SeraphimKensai]

Although I have a bots/emp, bots/time, bots/kin, and bots/elec I've never tried bots/cold or bots/rad. I'm sure both sets could make pretty serviceable builds.

 

The biggest issue with cold though is that you're reliant on protector bots to heal your pets. You could use rebirth if you find necessary or just lean into barrier for them to stack with their defense/res.

 

With rad you'll have to toggle juggle to a degree. Too bad Fallout doesn't work on a dead pet.

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, Xandyr said:

With Bots, what "secrets" does anyone have on slotting Equip and Upgrade Robot? I'm assuming the Imp Skin unique works in Equip? Does the Heal Procs (Panacea, Numina's) work in Upgrade Robot? 

 

Impervious Skin works in Equip Robot on all Bot pets. In Upgrade Robot, Protector Bots can trigger Miracle/Regenerative Tissue/Numina's/Panacea only when they heal, and only on themselves. Assault and Drones won't get these buffs.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

The biggest issue with cold though is that you're reliant on protector bots to heal your pets. You could use rebirth if you find necessary or just lean into barrier for them to stack with their defense/res.

 

Maintenance Drone says "whirr"

[kelika2]

bots/cold can get to softcap easily enough as long as you frankenslot your prot bot and fog.

-regen has rarely been an issue unless you are soloing stuff just for reasons, but strong enough in bot/cold

resist/3% global def in upgrade 1 to save a slot

golgi in upgrade 2 because why not.

final build just has 1 rech in maint drone.  between high defenses and prot bots also healing at level 26(21) just was not as needed as i thought it was going to be

 

radiation for masterminds is just not ideal for me due to the small radius on its debuffs.  there will always be a stray or two and constantly retoggling ate away at me years ago

[tidge]

10 hours ago, kelika2 said:

golgi in upgrade 2 because why not.

 

A single Healing IO 50+5 is almost certainly a better choice than a single level 53 Golgi in Upgrade Robot. The Endurance discount from the Golgi is doing next-to-nothing for a Mastermind.

[tidge]

19 hours ago, Xandyr said:

With Bots, what "secrets" does anyone have on slotting Equip and Upgrade Robot? I'm assuming the Imp Skin unique works in Equip? Does the Heal Procs (Panacea, Numina's) work in Upgrade Robot?

 

My Robotics MM's primary slotting is:

 

Spoiler

Level     1:            Battle Drones   

 (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

 (*) Sovereign Right – Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

 (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus: Level 50

 

Level 2:                 Pulse Rifle Burst

 (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Endurance

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Recharge

 

Level  6:                Equip Robot      

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP

 

Level 8:                 Photon Grenade             

 (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime

 

Level 12:              Protector Bots  

 (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5

 (*) Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus

 (*) Call to Arms: Defense Aura for Pets

 (*) Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage

 

Level 18:              Maintenance Drone

 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

 

Level 22:              Assault Bot        

 

 (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance, +Resist (All) +Regen(Pets): Level 50

 

Level 26:              Upgrade Robot

 

 (A) Healing IO: Level 50+5

 

My MM is Robotics/Traps, which has one HUGE difference from any potential Robotics/Cold build: I can skip the last three powers in the Traps secondary (Seeker Drones, Trip Mine, Detonator) and suffer no performance issues, with Cold Domination I suspect that a majority of the performance would be tied to the use of the final three powers in the secondary (Benumb, Sleet, Heat Loss).

 

I suspect that if I were to theory craft a Robotics/Cold build, I'd be obligated to add Hasten (for recharge time on Heat Loss). My own experience for Robotic Henchmen is that for most content Defense is more important than Resistance... so I'd probably frankenslot those Shields. This is almost painful to write: I'd probably skip Infrigidate (on a final build), as I just don't think I'd have the power picks or slots to do anything clever with it. It would come back in on a "One Big Robot" build, but that would be a niche design.

 

If folks haven't seen my writings on my approach to Robotics/Traps, one of the performance enhancers for my build is cramming the same (here Annihilation) Chance for Res Debuff into as many powers as possible in an effort to keep as many different AoE powers as possible triggering/extending the Resistance debuff. Robots shine in AoE.

[Hedgefund2]

I have a Bots/Cold that I played before the p5 changes but I have made an updated p5 build.  It hasn't gotten a lot of play since this update but I wanted it to be ready if I did.

 

To OP questions:

 

Nothing in Robots upgrade slotting includes anything that makes me say "did they really mean for this to happen?" like some of the other pets have (no beans spilled from me regarding this).  I put 3 Glad Armors, including the unique in Equip and +5d the pieces that enhance resists.  One basic heal IO, +5ed in Upgrade.  Impervious Skin was tempting but between prot bots and Maint Drone regen really isn't that much of a factor for bots.  If Miracle or Numina affected all bots I'd consider them for Upgrade but alas, it's only for prot bots (as noted above, after they heal).

 

To the question of "how did I build it?" 

1) Build up some defense

2) Recharge, recharge, recharge.  Benumb and Heat Loss have high base cooldowns and it takes a lot to even get them close to perma.  Some lucky rolls with FF proc in Pulse Rifle help.

 

I only took 2 primary attacks because I ended up with a seemless chain of Infrig (proc bombed out) >Grenade>Burst.  

 

My rating - A+.  As for lack of a heal, as a MM it behooves you to git gud at using macro/binds for inspiration usage.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Hedgefund2

[Raikao]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:07 PM, tidge said:

 

A single Healing IO 50+5 is almost certainly a better choice than a single level 53 Golgi in Upgrade Robot. The Endurance discount from the Golgi is doing next-to-nothing for a Mastermind.

 

It reduces the bots endurance costs. At least it should since it works for Necromancy. It's the new hot slotting strat. 1-2 Golgis in the second upgrade and maybe one endurance reduction on the pets (easily obtained from just using 2 pieces of Superior Supremacy set on each pet for 3x10% recharge)

Edited August 17, 2023 by Raikao

[tidge]

50 minutes ago, Raikao said:

 

It reduces the bots endurance costs. At least it should since it works for Necromancy. It's the new hot slotting strat. 1-2 Golgis in the second upgrade and maybe one endurance reduction on the pets (easily obtained from just using 2 pieces of Superior Supremacy set on each pet for 3x10% recharge)

 

Are you sure about this? My understanding was that the endurance reduction was on the cast (by the Mastermind) of the Upgrade Robot power.

 

 

[Raikao]

20 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Are you sure about this? My understanding was that the endurance reduction was on the cast (by the Mastermind) of the Upgrade Robot power.

 

 

 

[Hedgefund]

I was curious about this so I conducted a quick n=1 test so I would not submit this to a scientific or professional journal but I wanted to get a quick feel for the results to see if "gosh this is dramatic" or "meh".  

 

The test itself was 60 seconds attacking a drone in the RWZ base.

 

I used an old Bots MM that I had modified for P5.  My Upgrade Robot slot had a +5 heal and that's what the first result shows. 

 

 

I happened to have 3 Golgis (Synthetic and regular).  I unslotted the heal from Upgrade, slotted a Golgi then combined the others to make a lvl 52.

 

Here's the results after 1 minute of non-stop attacking a RWZ drone.

 

 

So, my n=1 conclusion is not "gosh this is dramatic" it's "meh".  If this Golgi "trick" is working, it doesn't seem to be doing much.

 

ETA - just to be thorough, I want to add some additional details.  After the first test.  I unslotted the heal, slotted the Golgis, dismissed all the pets, resummoned and reupgraded.  Just wanted to make that last point clear because not resummoning would mean they were using the original slotting the second time.

 

Also the point is to show the difference in blue (endurance) bars, which I'm sure you folks get but one can't assume everyone does.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Hedgefund

[tidge]

50 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

So, my n=1 conclusion is not "gosh this is dramatic" it's "meh".  If this Golgi "trick" is working, it doesn't seem to be doing much.

 

ETA - just to be thorough, I want to add some additional details.  After the first test.  I unslotted the heal, slotted the Golgis, dismissed all the pets, resummoned and reupgraded.  Just wanted to make that last point clear because not resummoning would mean they were using the original slotting the second time.

 

Also the point is to show the difference in blue (endurance) bars, which I'm sure you folks get but one can't assume everyone does.

 

I tried something similar (as I was desperate to find a use for a lvl 53 Golgi I had floating around as well as spare 50+5 Endurance IOs ) and I couldn't see any difference (in any henchman's blue bar). Whatever is happening with Necromancy does not appear to be happening with Robotics.

 

If Upgrade Robot somehow improved Endurance consumption of all the henchmen, I'd probably just single slot it with a level 50+5 Endurance Reduction IO, as in practice my Protector Bots don't do as much healing as I get from my six-slotted Maintenance Drone.

 

 

 

 

[StrikerFox]

I don't believe end redux in Bot pet upgrades work. It might just help reduce the cost of the Protector Bot's Repair power. Bot's base end cost for their powers are massive. I think every single power granted by both Bot upgrades are 10-15 end per cast. 

 

 

[Raikao]

4 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

I don't believe end redux in Bot pet upgrades work. It might just help reduce the cost of the Protector Bot's Repair power. Bot's base end cost for their powers are massive. I think every single power granted by both Bot upgrades are 10-15 end per cast. 

 

 

Then why does it work for Necromancy? You literally tested this. Don't tell me Necro just gets everything (numina, panacea etc procs and easy END management with golgis) while every other set this doesn't work. That just seems like a bug then.

[tidge]

3 hours ago, Raikao said:

Then why does it work for Necromancy? You literally tested this. Don't tell me Necro just gets everything (numina, panacea etc procs and easy END management with golgis) while every other set this doesn't work. That just seems like a bug then.

 

I don't have a Necromancy MM, and I didn't want to yuck in anyone else's yum, but I find myself wondering if the Healing %effects/globals might only have been applied for 120 seconds on the henchmen. I can't explain what people think they see with Endurance Reduction. I assume that Robotics can also slot those Healing %procs and globals, but that they would only trigger when the MM casts the power. Maintenance Drone is where I 6-slot Preventive Medicine.. I suppose if I made some different choices the %absorb piece could be muled by Upgrade Robot.

 

As @StrikerFox notes, the upgrade powers (for Robotics) have a pretty steep Endurance cost, but I don't have any context for comparison (I was bored with a Thugs MM, and I simply never felt like rolling up any others).

[Hedgefund]

I happen to be focusing on a Necro MM (just hit 50 an hour ago) at the moment.  Dark Empowerment has 3 Numis slotted (Heal, Heal/end, Unique) and, because each henchie spams a heal attack (either Siphon Life or Life Drain) the regen/recovery from the unique is always in effect, not counting being out of combat for >2 minutes.

 

Anyway, I'm of the mind that "enough endurance is enough" and I've never ever had an issue with endo bottoming out for any of them, so I won't be changing things up in Dark Empowerment.

[StrikerFox]

I think it may have something to do with Necro's increased max HP with Dark Empowerment. Other primaries do not get that buff. The heal unique IOs activating are a side effect of that. Maybe the game checks Necro pet's max hp every 10s like it's a toggle? I really don't know, pure speculation.

 

[StrikerFox]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

As @StrikerFox notes, the upgrade powers (for Robotics) have a pretty steep Endurance cost, but I don't have any context for comparison (I was bored with a Thugs MM, and I simply never felt like rolling up any others).

 

All powers granted to the Bots by both upgrades has a 10-15 end cost. All powers granted to Necro by both upgrades are between 4-8 end cost. 

 

 

[Raikao]

Yeah it's a bit annoying to be honest. In my current build I just had to swap an Endurance into Protector Bots so they don't keep running out of endurance all the time :/

 

Certainly feels like Necro got some "bonus" effects with the last update. I'd assume it's the +HP they get, which not only has them benefit from healset procs permanently but also from endurance reduction which imho is a bug but I wont light up a torch about it, since it does fit thematically. Restless Undead and all that.

 

I only hope this will make the devs do another pass and lower endurance cost of skills on the robots a little.

 

I'll drop my Robots/Time build here, mostly for pet slots to give OP an idea how to go about it.

 

For Maintenance Drone I'd suggest either slotting one +5 Heal IO or full preventive medicine (if you have the slots and no other healing power) You don't need recharge imho, since you can pre-cast / renew the Drone at any time and with some cooldown reduction (and you have at least 30% "for free" as MM) it's up often enough I feel.

 

DarksynthV14 - Mastermind Robotics - Time Manipulation.mbd

Edited August 29, 2023 by Raikao

[tidge]

For MM secondaries with some sort of healing that can be applied to the bots (or allies!) Recharge on Maintenance Drone is probably not that important. I can attest that for my Robotics/Traps... I think it is somewhat important (in a final build), for a few reasons:

1. The Maintenance Drone sticks with the MM, even if the henchmen are positioned elsewhere. The Maintenance Drone seems to be taking damage at a higher rate than the MM... I suppose due to AoE, but it does appear to sometimes get aggro.
2. The Maintenance Drone is a fire-and-forget power for the MM. As soon as a henchmen takes enough damage, the drone does its thing... without being directed to do so.
3. Generally, my Robotics/Traps relies on Incarnate-level Defense soft-caps with a modicum of Resistance, plus Bodyguard mode. I often run into enemies that debuff defenses and/or mezz the MM... so the henchmen start taking more damage than I'd prefer.

TL;DR: There are often times when I stray into combat where I end up having to respawn the Maintenance Drone more often than I'd like.