Golden Dragonfly (This needs to be Single Target Damage)

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

So Stalkers should only function the way that you want to play them. Got it. I'm on the flip side. Removing the AoE in various sets limits the amount of Stalkers I would want to play. There's zero reason for MA to have literally no AoE. No one needs a whole melee set of ST attacks when in reality an end game build needs like 3-4 of them. You sure as hell don't need 6.

 

Really? My god, that is a very tiresome response when nobody said that. That is a strawman straight off the bat with the very first sentence and to be honest, it insults my intelligence. I don't even think you believe that first statement, you just wanted to be a bull in a china shop. Maybe actually read what I have written here...then get back to me, until then I will not be dignifying that with a legit response.

[Kaika]

12 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

You say this, yet Ninja Blade is still one of the most popular Stalkers, and that is very ST focused. That Cone is a bit of a laugh, so I won't even comment much more on that one. In the end, I still say Stalker should have remained ST focused, it just needed to be better. Instead of making it better like the class was supposed to be, they instead added in AoE, which in my opinion was just a huge mistake. Had they done with the class what it was designed to do, I don't think we would be having this discussion. But, you know, Devs do what Devs do and us players have to make sense of it all. We just have our different ways of looking at things, only difference is my way of looking at it is in the way the class was supposed to function by design, not what they have turned it in to. It needed help, they gave it the wrong kind of help. Now the class is beyond putting it right, so we are stuck with it as is.

Popularity isn't a sign of good design, specially not in a game like this. From my experience most players pick power set based on their character concept first and how the set plays second. Folk come to stalker usually because they want to make a "Ninja" of some sort, as it's the most popular trope for a stealth character, Ninja blade being the obvious choice. There is a reason the guide pinned to the top of this forum is called "More then a Ninja". It's also not a particularly awful set, just not great, there are plenty worse like MA which lacks any AoE at all.

 

Anyways while it's a rather bold choice talking about how wrong the path this class has taken in the forum populated by people who are dedicated to it, I'll just agree to disagree on this one and take the blame for starting this, we are wildly off topic at this point.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Riot Siren

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, Riot Siren said:

Popularity isn't a sign of good design, specially not in a game like this. From my experience most players pick power set based on their character concept first and how the set plays second.

 

I have to admit, you kind of got me there...I am guilty of this very same thing, so I can't say it's not true, lol.

[honoroit]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

That boils back to al the damn knock back this game has now. This has always been an issue with all melee AT's, not just strictly a Stalker issue. Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers all share that same problem. However, the Knock Back crowd won that war, so now we have to deal with it. However, no matter which melee AT I play, I already know that chasing my target or mobs is always going to be a problem. That is why they gave us Fold Space, the problem with that is though, not everyone wants to take Teleport as their travel power to get it on every single melee character they have, so that power in of itself becomes redundant. I don't see any of that changing though, but point being, that is not a Stalker problem, that is a melee class problem.

 

last dozen or so characters ive made of various AT have all had combat teleport (or natively for ws). combat is too quick not to have insta port available to be peak 'sports maximum', kupo.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, honoroit said:

 

last dozen or so characters ive made of various AT have all had combat teleport (or natively for ws). combat is too quick not to have insta port available to be peak 'sports maximum', kupo.

 

I hear ya, I just can't stand taking the same exact travel power on all melee toons. Once upon a time, you didn't need anything like it, you didn't need Fold Space or Combat Teleport, because once upon a time, you didn't have anywhere near the amount of knock back that we have today. I am set in my ways I guess, but it is what it is, nothing I can do about it. So I gave up that fight a long time ago.

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, Riot Siren said:

Anyways while it's a rather bold choice talking about how wrong the path this class has taken in the forum populated by people who are dedicated to it,

 

Just noticed this. Why do you find it that a player who has been playing this game since its first week going live, who was part of this game from the very beginning, who has made countless suggestions over the years that ultimately lead to some (but not all) changes we came to see on Stalkers today, would be bold to give his opinion on the direction that Stalkers have taken, which by fact is an apple that has fallen far from the tree of what they were originally designed to do? I don't know if you meant it that way, but that kind of rubbed me as if you are trying to say that I lack the knowledge or time played or experience to give my opinion on this forum when you said, "it's a rather bold choice talking about how wrong the path this class has taken in the forum populated by people who are dedicated to it." as if I myself have not put in countless hours, months and years being fully dedicated to the class before it turned in to the set it is today. You have no idea the insanely long hours I have spent on the OG forums pushing for Stalker buffs to make them a better class, the long hours arguing with idiots who didn't even have a basic understanding of the mechanics of Stalkers, they were simply Stalker haters and no buff was welcomed because they wanted to keep the Stalker class in the mud. So yeah, that comment kind of stings, because although you may not know me (even though I have posted City of Hero Forums since its first couple months going live) or may have never even heard of me, but one thing you can believe, is that I have most certainly put in my time and country to this class long before many people playing today was even aware the game existed.

Anyway, not upset, just kind of feel like it was blowing me off in a way that made it out like I have not put in my work for this class...trust me, I have war scars because of this class, lol. Anyway, trying to let it drop the best I can, I already said I wasn't trying to push anything further since you guys like it as is, I just wanted to get a base feel of how other Stalker players felt about the set. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Solarverse

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, Riot Siren said:

Popularity isn't a sign of good design, specially not in a game like this.

(Psionic Melee enters the chat)

[Solarverse]

39 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

(Psionic Melee enters the chat)

 

That one there is pretty unique. I am a bit thrown off by the confuse, even though it was explained to me a million times, I just can't wrap my head around why a Stalker needs confuse, but...love the concept of the set, just wish the animations weren't so....stiff.

[Yomo Kimyata]

22 hours ago, Solarverse said:

You know, back in the day, that thin cone worked a lot better. I seem to recall Golden Dragonfly having a much further reach...dare I say double what it is now.

 

What is true is that once upon a time, you could slot it for range.  Headsplitter with a few Centrioles in it was pretty ridiculous!

[Kaika]

8 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

Just noticed this. Why do you find it that a player who has been playing this game since its first week going live, who was part of this game from the very beginning, who has made countless suggestions over the years that ultimately lead to some (but not all) changes we came to see on Stalkers today, would be bold to give his opinion on the direction that Stalkers have taken, which by fact is an apple that has fallen far from the tree of what they were originally designed to do? I don't know if you meant it that way, but that kind of rubbed me as if you are trying to say that I lack the knowledge or time played or experience to give my opinion on this forum when you said, "it's a rather bold choice talking about how wrong the path this class has taken in the forum populated by people who are dedicated to it." as if I myself have not put in countless hours, months and years being fully dedicated to the class before it turned in to the set it is today. You have no idea the insanely long hours I have spent on the OG forums pushing for Stalker buffs to make them a better class, the long hours arguing with idiots who didn't even have a basic understanding of the mechanics of Stalkers, they were simply Stalker haters and no buff was welcomed because they wanted to keep the Stalker class in the mud. So yeah, that comment kind of stings, because although you may not know me (even though I have posted City of Hero Forums since its first couple months going live) or may have never even heard of me, but one thing you can believe, is that I have most certainly put in my time and country to this class long before many people playing today was even aware the game existed.

Anyway, not upset, just kind of feel like it was blowing me off in a way that made it out like I have not put in my work for this class...trust me, I have war scars because of this class, lol. Anyway, trying to let it drop the best I can, I already said I wasn't trying to push anything further since you guys like it as is, I just wanted to get a base feel of how other Stalker players felt about the set. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

You're reading too much into that line. I meant this forum is mostly populated by those who enjoy the AT in it current iteration, and you are walking in here with statements like "Now the class is beyond putting it right" to the people who currently enjoy it.

 

You'll also have to forgive me if pulling the "I've been at this for so long" line doesn't really work on me, as I've been playing this game since release. Look while I don't know what you've been through, you don't know what I have, because I did the same stuff. I'm not denying your past experience, I just don't agree with your conclusion, and I think you'll find most here do not, and that was what I was saying with that statement. I'm not blowing your off, you just haven't convinced me, and you're talking as if this is already a agree upon conclusion, based on some vague former "play-style" that you haven't elaborated on. "Trust me I used to be really good and people complimented me all the time" Really isn't a convincing argument in my book, specially from someone who also used to get similar compliment about being "the only decent stalker" they've seen. You said "Devs do what Devs do and us players have to make sense of it all", but you know it isn't that hard to come to the conclusion of why the developers would give MASSIVE rework that changes the entire play-style of a class, and that pretty massively buffs them. It's because they felt it was under preforming, and didn't fit the game as it was played, and this was the best way they could find fix it given the current mechanics of the game. You don't make a change that drastic because the class was misunderstood, you do it because there was a fundamental problem with the design. A rework of that scale take alot of time, effort, and money and risks making things worse by alienating the players who enjoyed it old implementation, as you can attest too. Its not something you do lightly and without good research. While I don't have hard data, from my experience over my 19 years of playing this game, it was a good call, stalker seem more popular these days then they ever were and yes I might have said "Popularity isn't a sign of good design" but a change in popularity can be rather telling.

 

Look I'm not upset either, honestly I rather enjoy having these kind of debates oddly enough, a trait not shared with others and a reason I haven't been extremely active on the forums over the years. I'm not trying to say you are wrong for enjoying stalkers old iteration, just that I don't agree with you that, to paraphrase "the class went down the wrong path". We are still the kings of single target, we can still delete bosses faster then any other AT in the game, we can also just do more beyond just single target burst, and aren't limited to basically just that anymore. Tanks can do more then just take damage, Blasters can do more then AoE, Defenders can do more then support, and now stalker can do more then just single target, but all these ATs are still the king in their specific fields. If you feel that your play style was lost and you don't enjoy the AT as much anymore then I genuinely feel for you, I just don't agree that it was a bad change.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Riot Siren

[Solarverse]

23 minutes ago, Riot Siren said:

You're reading too much into that line. I meant this forum is mostly populated by those who enjoy the AT in it current iteration, and you are walking in here with statements like "Now the class is beyond putting it right" to the people who currently enjoy it.

 

You'll also have to forgive me if pulling the "I've been at this for so long" line doesn't really work on me, as I've been playing this game since release. Look while I don't know what you've been through, you don't know what I have, because I did the same stuff. I'm not denying your past experience, I just don't agree with your conclusion, and I think you'll find most here do not, and that was what I was saying with that statement. Look I'm not blowing your off, you just haven't convinced me, and you're talking as if this is already a agree upon conclusion, based on some vague former "play-style" that you haven't elaborated on. "Trust me I used to be really good and people complimented me all the time" Really isn't a convincing argument in my book, specially from someone who also used to get similar compliment about being "the only decent stalker" they've seen. You said "Devs do what Devs do and us players have to make sense of it all", but you know it isn't that hard to come to the conclusion of why the developers would give MASSIVE rework that changes the entire play-style of a class, and that pretty massively buffs them. It's because they felt it was under preforming, and didn't fit the game as it was played, and this was the best way they could find fix it given the current mechanics of the game. You don't make a change that drastic because the class was misunderstood, you do it because there was a fundamental problem with the design. A rework of that scale take alot of time, effort, and money and risks making things worse by alienating the players who enjoyed it old implementation, as you can attest too. Its not something you do lightly and without good research. While I don't have hard data, from my experience over my 19 years of playing this game, it was a good call, stalker seem more popular these days then they ever were and yes I might have said "Popularity isn't a sign of good design" but a change in popularity can be rather telling.

 

Look I'm not upset either, honestly I rather enjoy having these kind of debates oddly enough, a trait not shared with others and a reason I haven't been extremely active on the forums over the years. I'm not trying to say you are wrong for enjoying stalkers old iteration, just that I don't agree with you that, to paraphrase "the class went down the wrong path". We are still the kings of single target, we can still delete bosses faster then any other AT in the game, we can also just do more beyond just single target burst, and aren't limited to basically just that anymore. Tanks can do more then just take damage, Blasters can do more then AoE, Defenders can do more then support, and now stalker can do more then just single target, but all these ATs are still the king in their specific fields. If you feel that your play style was lost and you don't enjoy the AT as much anymore then I genuinely feel for you, I just don't agree that it was a bad change.

 

Dude, when you put it to me as if I shouldn't be saying certain things because it is bold, that spelled out to me that you put your credentials and everyone else's in this forum above mine. So as you can see, I also was not impressed with the statement, so yeah, I went there as well. So under the circumstances, I don't think you can really blame me for giving out my own credentials in response.

I'm letting this drop though, because I have learned one thing over the many years being a part of City of Heroes forums, to suggest change can get you killed, lol. Even if it is a change that you aren't trying to push any harder than an inquiry. So I'm done with it. I mean, I did after all concede on the first page, not even 3 or 4 posts in. So I'm not sure why I am being taken as if I think this is an agreed upon conclusion, I never said that nor indicated as such...I stated my view point, nothing more, then conceded while maintaining my personal view.

 

I am not here to push for changing the class, I came here to get a feel of how others felt, after all, there are sets that are single target focused that I can still play and for as long as this is true, nobody will get any trouble out of me. I simply felt like the cone was too small, too short and was far too situational and was hoping others agreed. They do not, so I'm done with it.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Solarverse

[Kaika]

43 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Dude, when you put it to me as if I shouldn't be saying certain things because it is bold, that spelled out to me that you put your credentials and everyone else's in this forum above mine. So as you can see, I also was not impressed with the statement, so yeah, I went there as well. So under the circumstances, I don't think you can really blame me for giving out my own credentials in response.

I'm letting this drop though, because I have learned one thing over the many years being a part of City of Heroes forums, to suggest change can get you killed, lol. Even if it is a change that you aren't trying to push any harder than an inquiry. So I'm done with it. I mean, I did after all concede on the first page, not even 3 or 4 posts in. So I'm not sure why I am being taken as if I think this is an agreed upon conclusion, I never said that nor indicated as such...I stated my view point, nothing more, then conceded while maintaining my personal view.

 

I am not here to push for changing the class, I came here to get a feel of how others felt, after all, there are sets that are single target focused that I can still play and for as long as this is true, nobody will get any trouble out of me. I simply felt like the cone was too small, too short and was far too situational and was hoping others agreed. They do not, so I'm done with it.

You're reading too much into it again, I was simply stating that your opinion is a "hot take" and that you would find alot of push back. I was not trying to deny your opinion just challenge it. You gave your opinion of " I have been against Stalkers having AoE since day one and believe AoE goes completely against the concept of Stalkers." and I was simply stating why I disagreed, explaining my reasoning and why a statement like that would lead to this kinda disagreement with most stalker players active right now. You have every right to have that opinion, but I also have every right to challenge it. Look I can take the blame for not letting that statement go and pressing on it.

 

Anyways I do agree we should drop this, it's clearly going nowhere.