Enemy damage.

[Ultimo]

So, I've been really struggling with making an AE arc with appropriate enemies that anyone can fight.  I've been considering it for a while, I feel the problem is excessive damage from Bosses or better.

 

Basically, if I make an enemy as a BOSS, they're far too flimsy for a start, and are defeated far too quickly.  Their damage is HIGH, and they're capable of taking out my Blaster character in 2-3 hits (and they WILL hit that often at least).  Making them ELITE BOSS level increases their damage so much that they'll take out my Blaster character in 2 hits, and then, only because they can't oneshot him.  More sturdy characters can take a couple more hits, but as EBs they have so much health there's no way to do enough damage to them before you're defeated.  Therein lies the problem.

 

Bosses: Too flimsy, damage is a bit high.

Elite Bosses: VERY sturdy, damage is excessive.

Arch Villains: VERY sturdy, damage is excessive.

 

I think what's needed is to scale back EB damage output to Boss levels.  This makes them superior to Bosses because they're more durable, but still manageable enemies to fight.

 

In any case, some kind of review of the power levels of these characters is called for, it's just impossible to find a balance point at present.

[Ultimo]

So, to provide some numbers.

 

I ran the tests with Mr. Mech, my Beam Rifle/Atomic Manipulation Blaster.  He has 1093 health.  My average attack does around 120 damage.

 

I created a version of my Tanker, the Canadian Shield.  The AE version of him has 778 health and does 239 damage with Hurl, as a BOSS.

As an ELITE BOSS, but spawned as a BOSS, he has 2040 health and does 398 damage with Hurl.

As an ARCH VILLAIN, but spawned as an ELITE BOSS, he has 4858 health and Hurl does 558 damage.

 

As a Boss, my Blaster will defeat him, potentially with ease... and this is a TANKER character, so sturdier than, say, a Mastermind or Controller or something.

As an EB/Boss, my Blaster is doomed.  There's NO WAY he can do enough damage before he's wiped out.  Three hits, and he's dead... and those three hits will come in less than 2 seconds.

Beyond this is irrelevant, really.

 

So what we have are enemies that are too flimsy as Bosses, but do decent damage, and sturdy enough as Elite Bosses, but do too much damage.  A middle ground is needed.  My thinking is as I said, just reduce the damage output of EBs and AVs.

 

This is actually consistent with something I learned YEARS ago playing pen and paper Champions.  The enemies the books provided were built much like the enemies here, where they did more and more and more damage, to the point where the heroes couldn't possibly withstand them.  I cut their damage back to a level similar to what the heroes could do, and all of a sudden they were a LOT more fun to fight.  Battles weren't over in a blink, so there was more drama, and more tactical variety.  The heroes are more fun to play if they get to fight back.  The battles get drawn out, so you get to use your attacks more often, and that's more fun than attacking once (or being defeated instantly).

Doing this might also remove the need to have EBs and AVs spawn as anything other than EBs and AVs.

[cranebump]

It's probably okay to overtune your bosses a bit, because (a) people running AE probably run with min-maxed PCS anyway, b) players CAN use Insps, c) Players can also bring help in, if need be, d) players can use signature summons or other pets. Most of all e) you can't plan for everything. One ATs impossible boss is another ATs breezy encounter.  

 

If you really do want to balance damage, you can try remove the offending attacks (like Hurl). Otherwise, trust the players to figure things out. As long as you're not intentionally trying to build impossible bosses, it seems to me you've done your job.

 

 

[Ultimo]

Well... the thing is, I want to be able to play and enjoy the missions myself, and most of my characters are around L20-30.  Against even the WEAKEST attacks from an EB, they crumple like tinfoil.  Only the Tankers can last any longer, but it's not by much.

 

If the don't want to change the existing levels of foes, perhaps they can add a level in between Boss and Elite Boss... where it would have the Boss level damage, but Elite Boss level health.

[Darmian]

It can be an issue. I sometimes give allies with a dedicated Rez to extend their usefulness. Players running off and leaving them behind is their problem!

[Troo]

Finding the right +__/___ can help.

 

There are a lot of levers without getting into how many players should it take to defeat a target and vice versa.

[Clave Dark 5]

There's some decent tricks I think to be found on... wait, was that in the wiki?  I'll check...

 

Yeah, yeah it was:  https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Mission_Architect_Custom_Units (scroll down a bit)

 

In general, I've found it often also matters who you're running through these, such as whoops, low Psi resists or something.  Just try and go for stuff that doesn't cause problems en masse like attacks with debuff effects, etc. and skip any armors as much as you can.  Anoither trick, give them lots of melee attacks and then set for ranged, they won't use many of them.  

 

Most people will be able to steamroll anyway, yeah, and better to be flimsy than ganked.

 

ETA: also, for levels 20-30, maybe customs might just be too tough for you?

Edited September 17, 2023 by Clave Dark 5