PARTIAL CRITS

[Lazarus]

A set that has 1 or more of its attacks that have partial crits IE (STONE) maybe others, are the "LESS" on scrappers than brute?

 

If energy melee on could only use 20% of fury there would be outrage and riots.

 

so if the sets only get partial dam. from crits are they "LESS"

 

THOUGHTS

[Frosticus]

Can't speak for all of them, but in the case of Stone it has a flat 20% crit chance on seismic, so that is notable.

EM can gain double energy focus, which is pretty bonkers when it happens and both the heavy hitters have a slightly boosted base critical chance of 10%

 

EM is quite popular, so it isn't holding it back imo. 

I'm not sure why stone isn't more popular. I'm not sure why I haven't played it yet. Seismic is a perfect spot for crit strikes, you can probably get heavy and regular mallet into the window and tremor offers good control, ffb proc and is a nice 15ft aoe. I think if anything it competes with buffed axe, but maybe doesn't win in that department, so you see more axe being played. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

59 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

I'm not sure why stone isn't more popular. I'm not sure why I haven't played it yet. Seismic is a perfect spot for crit strikes, you can probably get heavy and regular mallet into the window and tremor offers good control, ffb proc and is a nice 15ft aoe. I think if anything it competes with buffed axe, but maybe doesn't win in that department, so you see more axe being played. 

 

Stone is an excellent, excellent set.  

 

Seismic has a high proc activation rate, but you're not going to get both mallets into the window.  By my calculations, you'll have 2.367 seconds of active proc time and you'd need 2.648 seconds to get off both mallets.  One mallet and Stone fists, yes.

 

But I generally put crit strikes in Fault and count on getting just one power off in the window.

[Pzn]

12 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Stone is an excellent, excellent set.  

 

Seismic has a high proc activation rate, but you're not going to get both mallets into the window.  By my calculations, you'll have 2.367 seconds of active proc time and you'd need 2.648 seconds to get off both mallets.  One mallet and Stone fists, yes.

 

But I generally put crit strikes in Fault and count on getting just one power off in the window.

You can get both mallets in the window.  you only need to start the last attack before the critical strikes window finishes in order for it to be boosted.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Pzn

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Pzn said:

You can get both mallets in the window.  you only need to start the last attack before the critical strikes window finishes in order for it to be boosted.

 

I do not believe that is true.  I believe that the critical strikes window needs to be active by the time the effect is applied.

 

 

Let's imagine that you can hit Seismic twice in a row (you can't, but let's assume it's an identical power because I don't want to post two pictures.)

 

When you activate this power, it will take a total of 1.716 seconds before any other power will begin (Arcanatime).  So you activate the power and then there is a certain amount of time that elapses before effects take place.  In this case, that is 0.833 seconds (Animation Time before Effect).  Lots of things happen at that effect time, including damage and checking to see if procs activate.  That's when the Critical Strike proc is checked to see if it activates.  If it does, then you get 3.25 seconds of enhanced critical probability.  Some of that time is wasted, since the power needs to completely execute animation and prepare for the next power, even if you have it cued up.  In this case, your "dead time" is 1.716 - 0.833 = 0.883 seconds (which is really pretty low) leaving you 3.25 - 0.883 = 2.367 seconds of remaining active proc time.

 

Now we activate the next power, which we are pretending is identical to this one.  Is there enough active time left on the proc?  Yes!  all we need for the proc to be effective is for it to still be active in 0.833 seconds!  So making sure that there is enough time for the proc to be active for the next power is satisfied.  you'd think that would always be the case, but it isn't.  there are a (relatively small) number of combinations that will never pass on the crit strikes proc to the second power because the animation time before effect is greater than the remaining active proc time.

 

Now, how about getting more than one power in the window?  In that case, you need to execute the entire second power and have enough time left on the proc to reach the animation time before effect on the third power.  So let's say we can hit Seismic three times in a row.  It activates the proc and you have 2.367 seconds or remaining active proc time.  the second power execution takes a total of 1.716 seconds (again, Arcanatime) which means after the second power we have 0.651 seconds of remaining time in the proc window.  Since the activation time before effect is greater than that remaining time, the proc window will not be open for that one.

 

I'm quite sure that this is how it works, and I've had verification from others on this board, but I'm absolutely open to hearing otherwise.  Without delving into the code you really won't know because the combat log doesn't tell you the probability of a crit, so if there is a crit on the third execution you really don't know if that was a boosted crit chance or just a regular one.

 

Anyway, there are cases when you can get three attacks off with enhanced crit.  But for the most part, I assume I'll only get one and I'll check to see if a particular combo is even possible.

[Pzn]

I'm positive it's true.

[Yomo Kimyata]

8 minutes ago, Pzn said:

I'm positive it's true.

 

Can you point me towards evidence in the code?  Again, I'd love to hear that I'm incorrect.

 

[Frosticus]

No dog in this race other than to say this should be an easy one to test. It should be apparent pretty quickly if that second mallet is being boosted.

[nihilii]

Thoughts: scrappers are crazy good with their ATOs and the native structural advantages of high base mod (= get more from buffs, from Follow Up and Blinding Feint, from Alpha Musculature, from Hybrid, from Gaussian BU, and so on).

If you operate from the baseline of scrapper=brute, a rational intuition, the whole idea of partial crits sounds like a bad deal for scrappers.

If you accept scrappers>brutes as baseline, "partial crits" are an attempt to smooth over the most bursty powersets where fully fledged crits would be too blatantly overpowered.

[aethereal]

Yeah, I think @nihilii is right here: it is indeed the case that partial crits are a relative disadvantage for scrappers compared to brutes.  But that relative disadvantage isn't so high as to erase the inherent advantages of scrappers over brutes, just mitigate it.

[Frosticus]

Hopped on test. 

*used auto enhance

*emptied seismic and put Crit Strikes in

*No scrappers strike slotted

 

Seismic>Heavy Mallet> Stone Mallet

[Pzn]

18 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Can you point me towards evidence in the code?  Again, I'd love to hear that I'm incorrect.

 

I just know from experience playing the game.  I'm no programmer.