Collectable Contacts

[Herotu]

Someone had the idea of getting a copy of your contacts to put in your base.

 

I really love this idea, especially if they could also get captured by villains and disappearing from their position (just turn them invisible/intangible until they are rescued).

 

Rescuing people you don't know is amazing: Hats off to all our first responders and everybody who ever rescued anybody IRL.

 

BUT the narrative of them being people you do know is superb! That's why Mary Jane is always the damsel in distress, rather than some rando.

 

[Rudra]

Mary Jane isn't a contact for Spiderman. Neither is Lois Lane for Superman. Or any of the other NPCs that get abducted periodically in comics. They are love interests or family. Our contacts in CoX aren't love interests or family or even friends. They are just random people our characters meet or get introduced to that point them to tasks and that the contacts progressively trust. (So they basically stay "some rando" to our characters.)

 

There is also the issue of if the contact is abducted, what happens to the missions you are currently doing for that contact? Or what villain would be sufficiently invested in the PC to stalk him/her/them/it like that in CoX? Or why should only blue side players have to put up with their contacts disappearing on them?

 

In the missions where you do have to rescue contacts, which may actually be previous contacts for your character depending on what path through the game you take, there is no great narrative giving the PC an impetus to rescue said contact other than 'Hey, another rescue mission. Oh this time I have to rescue Azuria from the Warriors? Okay, sure.'. Or ' Jim Temblor is in trouble? Again?! Couldn't you just leave him and Fusionette home while I dealt with the problem?!'. "Oh, hey there Doc' Delilah. Next time wait until I go back to you to tell you the area is safe for you to investigate.'

[Saiyajinzoningen]

so you want bases to full of NPC contacts you collect?

do they stand there?

wander around?

how many?

is it a party?

am I invited? (jk)

seriously though, I'm invited right?

[Rudra]

35 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

so you want bases to full of NPC contacts you collect?

do they stand there?

wander around?

how many?

is it a party?

am I invited? (jk)

seriously though, I'm invited right?

Oh. I misunderstood then. Please disregard my previous post. (Edit: Though that does bring up another concern. Could those contacts still give their appropriate missions? I would have to say they cannot.)

Edited December 6, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

11 hours ago, Herotu said:

I really love this idea, especially if they could also get captured by villains and disappearing from their position (just turn them invisible/intangible until they are rescued).

Can the game have a contact be present for one person by absent for another?  I don't know if there's a system in place where a contact is available or missing "globally" for all players.

 

11 hours ago, Herotu said:

BUT the narrative of them being people you do know is superb! That's why Mary Jane is always the damsel in distress, rather than some rando.

It would be interesting if they could implement some sort of "significant other" system, where you could get missions from, and missions to rescue, said "significant other".  I imagine such a system/interaction would have to be handled via a special solo-only instance - maybe you place a door to your significant other's bedroom or office, or something, and usually they're there, but sometimes they're gone and you find a note or clue that they've been abducted, which triggers a mission to rescue them...

[Fade]

30 minutes ago, biostem said:

Can the game have a contact be present for one person by absent for another?

NPCs can be present for some players and absent for others, based on active or completed missions - some examples include Laura Lockhart, Aaron Thiery, Lt. Harris, and multiple NPC contacts in Praetoria. There's also a scene with Marauder surrounded by police near Manticore and Swan depending on your progress on the Provost Marchand story arc (the blueside level 30+ arc, not anything that takes place in Praetoria).

[biostem]

15 minutes ago, Fade said:

NPCs can be present for some players and absent for others, based on active or completed missions - some examples include Laura Lockhart, Aaron Thiery, Lt. Harris, and multiple NPC contacts in Praetoria. There's also a scene with Marauder surrounded by police near Manticore and Swan depending on your progress on the Provost Marchand story arc (the blueside level 30+ arc, not anything that takes place in Praetoria).

Just for clarification, are you saying that those NPCs may be present and visible for one player, but not present/visible for another, at the same time and even if both were standing right next to each other, or are we talking within an instance where only 1 such player is present?

[Fade]

I mean that two players can stand next to each other, and one might see the NPCs while the other sees only empty space.

[Rudra]

33 minutes ago, biostem said:

Just for clarification, are you saying that those NPCs may be present and visible for one player, but not present/visible for another, at the same time and even if both were standing right next to each other, or are we talking within an instance where only 1 such player is present?

Yes. Examples are Cutter Cain and Laura Lockhart, If a player clears the Cutter Cain arc, (s)he won't find the Resistance contact of the same level range even while standing next to a player whose character was currently interacting with the doctor to get their next mission on the Imperial City zone map. Or if a player completes the Laura Lockhart arc, (s)he won't see Laura Lockhart even while standing at her contact point and teamed with someone getting missions from her on the Steel Canyon zone map.

[Herotu]

23 hours ago, Rudra said:

Mary Jane isn't a contact for Spiderman. Neither is Lois Lane for Superman. Or any of the other NPCs that get abducted periodically in comics. They are love interests or family. Our contacts in CoX aren't love interests or family or even friends. They are just random people our characters meet or get introduced to that point them to tasks and that the contacts progressively trust. (So they basically stay "some rando" to our characters.)

 

There is also the issue of if the contact is abducted, what happens to the missions you are currently doing for that contact? Or what villain would be sufficiently invested in the PC to stalk him/her/them/it like that in CoX? Or why should only blue side players have to put up with their contacts disappearing on them?

 

In the missions where you do have to rescue contacts, which may actually be previous contacts for your character depending on what path through the game you take, there is no great narrative giving the PC an impetus to rescue said contact other than 'Hey, another rescue mission. Oh this time I have to rescue Azuria from the Warriors? Okay, sure.'. Or ' Jim Temblor is in trouble? Again?! Couldn't you just leave him and Fusionette home while I dealt with the problem?!'. "Oh, hey there Doc' Delilah. Next time wait until I go back to you to tell you the area is safe for you to investigate.'

 

I can answer these.

Firstly, although they may not be friends at first, there are levels of friendship (on hero side, at least) that you develop as you get to know your contacts;

Acquaintance, Colleague, Friend, Confidant

That, right there, is your emotional investment. Perhaps it's not emphasised enough in the game. Perhaps skipping all the text makes one oblivious to the relationship you've built.

Once they're your friends, why wouldn't they be in your base? 

 

If a contact is abducted, what would happen to missions? That's a good question. I understand that it could be annoying to have your active contacts disappearing, so maybe only lower level or completed contacts should be eligible to be kidnapped? The trade-off is that you can only have them in your base if they're completed.

 

This new system could be far more sophisticated than I'm suggesting here, it's just a starting point. There's a world of possibilities that spawn from this point and they all loop around to reinforce the lore and the characters of CoX.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Herotu

[SuggestorK]

14 hours ago, Fade said:

NPCs can be present for some players and absent for others, based on active or completed missions - some examples include Laura Lockhart, Aaron Thiery, Lt. Harris, and multiple NPC contacts in Praetoria. There's also a scene with Marauder surrounded by police near Manticore and Swan depending on your progress on the Provost Marchand story arc (the blueside level 30+ arc, not anything that takes place in Praetoria).

That the "Phasing System"  Paragon Studios introduced to Atlas Park and newer content, sadly they hadnt time to distrbute it to all parts of the Game.

Edited December 7, 2023 by SuggestorK

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Herotu said:

 

I can answer these.

Firstly, although they may not be friends at first, there are levels of friendship (on hero side, at least) that you develop as you get to know your contacts;

Acquaintance, Colleague, Friend, Confidant

That, right there, is your emotional investment. Perhaps it's not emphasised enough in the game. Perhaps skipping all the text makes one oblivious to the relationship you've built.

Once they're your friends, why wouldn't they be in your base? 

 

If a contact is abducted, what would happen to missions? That's a good question. I understand that it could be annoying to have your active contacts disappearing, so maybe only lower level or completed contacts should be eligible to be kidnapped? The trade-off is that you can only have them in your base if they're completed.

 

This new system could be far more sophisticated than I'm suggesting here, it's just a starting point. There's a world of possibilities that spawn from this point and they all loop around to reinforce the lore and the characters of CoX.

I disagree. Those show a progression of trust the contact feels towards your character. How much of a friend do you view your manager/boss/employer? Your manager/boss/employer goes through the same progression. 'Another worker, let's see if (s)he can at least do their job.' 'I can trust this person to get the job done.' 'I can trust this person with extra tasks without having to worry too much about the outcome.' 'This person is my Go To person for whatever may be going on.' So your boss viewed you as an acquiantance, then as a colleague, then as a friend, then as a confidant. (Though the actual friend part is only in reference to scale of progression.) It has nothing to do with reading the text and checking the contact meter. Your character is running errands and doing jobs for this person for this time period. I don't see any friendship being built by the character to the contact, just a progression of trust by the contact to the character. (Edit: If anything, the contact text further reinforces this point. The text states how much the contact has come to trust your character and how much they would like your character to buy from their store. That doesn't sound like a growing friendship to me in the least. Just growing trust from the contact in as much as your typical salesperson to get you to buy their merchandise.) I know that is my take and not likely held by others, most definitely not held by everyone, but that is where I am on this.

 

I am fine with giving players access to contacts to have in their bases on a few conditions:

     1) The contacts added to the base can not and may never grant access to their missions/arcs. You still have to go to the actual contact for that.

     2) If the phase out mechanic can be made to work with them, then there is also a phase in mechanic like we see in Atlas Park and Mercy Island where those base contacts are not visible or accessible to players that have not passed their max level of availability.

     3) No TF/SF contacts are made available. Or if they are made available, condition 1 is applied to them with extreme prejudice.

     4) Any rescue the missing contact missions can only affect the contact in your base, not the actual contact in his/her respective zone.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Rudra

[Herotu]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I disagree. Those show a progression of trust the contact feels towards your character. How much of a friend do you view your manager/boss/employer? Your manager/boss/employer goes through the same progression. 'Another worker, let's see if (s)he can at least do their job.' 'I can trust this person to get the job done.' 'I can trust this person with extra tasks without having to worry too much about the outcome.' 'This person is my Go To person for whatever may be going on.' So your boss viewed you as an acquiantance, then as a colleague, then as a friend, then as a confidant. (Though the actual friend part is only in reference to scale of progression.) It has nothing to do with reading the text and checking the contact meter. Your character is running errands and doing jobs for this person for this time period. I don't see any friendship being built by the character to the contact, just a progression of trust by the contact to the character. (Edit: If anything, the contact text further reinforces this point. The text states how much the contact has come to trust your character and how much they would like your character to buy from their store. That doesn't sound like a growing friendship to me in the least. Just growing trust from the contact in as much as your typical salesperson to get you to buy their merchandise.) I know that is my take and not likely held by others, most definitely not held by everyone, but that is where I am on this.

 

I am fine with giving players access to contacts to have in their bases on a few conditions:

     1) The contacts added to the base can not and may never grant access to their missions/arcs. You still have to go to the actual contact for that.

     2) If the phase out mechanic can be made to work with them, then there is also a phase in mechanic like we see in Atlas Park and Mercy Island where those base contacts are not visible or accessible to players that have not passed their max level of availability.

     3) No TF/SF contacts are made available. Or if they are made available, condition 1 is applied to them with extreme prejudice.

     4) Any rescue the missing contact missions can only affect the contact in your base, not the actual contact in his/her respective zone.

Some of your points seem valid, some I've covered and some are batshit crazy. Just kidding, I can understand your concerns but I disagree with your opinion on some of your points.

 

I am guessing that you're concerned that "Collectable Contacts" means that there are fewer players visible to the rest of us in the game. I agree, that's not good news. We want the world to seem active and we're starting from a low enough bar as it is. That said, a lot of people already spend all their time in their base.

 

1.  Agree. 2. Agree. 3. Agree 4. Disagree - why not use phasing?

 

One issue that hasn't been covered (except perhaps Rudra's issue #2 above) is that of Supergroups. I feel like the system would work fine if the base were only there for one person, but what about guests? What about other Supergroup members? What if one person has unlocked a dood for the base but another hasn't met them yet? What if they've met them but only done half their arc, etc. Obviously, these aren't questions I can answer here, I'm just pitching an idea and I haven't thought of every possibility. 

 

What if players find one of their contacts visiting their friend's Supergroup base? Would that be cool? I think so...

 

I think this system has a lot of scope for giving players a reason to do missions from obscure contacts, or to explore more, looking for weirdos and oddballs hiding in the corners, the ones you don't usually visit. I imagine someone asking, "where did you get that person from? They look cool, I want them for my base, too".

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

4. Disagree - why not use phasing?

Because in order to prevent the in base contacts from granting their missions, the devs will likely need to duplicate the existing contacts for inclusion in the base without their missions. This means for the phasing to to affect the contact in the zone as well as the contact in the base, the phasing has to be worked to affect multiple versions. And given that the Pavel Garnier contact is already broken for his own missions despite the current devs looking him over and not finding any errors, my concern is affecting both the in base and in zone versions of the contact will introduce yet more bugs that defy correction. (Edit again: Even the contact that phases out if you do the Cutter Cain arc has issues. If you do the Cutter Cain arc and then you go to Ouroboros after leveling past the range to do the doctor's arc, there are times he still isn't there. So you get his first mission, go to turn it in, but there is no doctor there to turn it in to in order to get the next mission. I don't know if this has been resolved because I always make sure to do his arc before the Cutter Cain one, but that still demonstrates that the phase out mechanic can still cause problems.)

 

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

One issue that hasn't been covered (except perhaps Rudra's issue #2 above) is that of Supergroups. I feel like the system would work fine if the base were only there for one person, but what about guests? What about other Supergroup members? What if one person has unlocked a dood for the base but another hasn't met them yet? What if they've met them but only done half their arc, etc. Obviously, these aren't questions I can answer here, I'm just pitching an idea and I haven't thought of every possibility. 

That is why my condition imposes the phase in that only triggers for that character after they have out-leveled them. At that point, the character having not met them becomes almost moot. Or you can use the phase in that Mercy Island and Atlas Park uses where that contact only becomes visible to that character if they have completed that contact.

 

Edit:

I neglected to address the "That said, a lot of people already spend all their time in their base." So, here is my take on that. "I don't care." Players can spend as much time in their bases as they want. What they do in their bases is not anything I need or want to be privy to. They can spend their time however they want. However, if the devs agree to make contacts available for base inclusion and those contacts can act as full, normal contacts in the bases, then we will see even less players than we already do. You talk to your current contact in your base and that contact tells you to deliver an item to say Azuria, so you turn around and give it to Azuria standing right next to him. I firmly believe working contacts need to stay where they are and not be in our bases. Contacts in our bases for flavor? Sure. Contacts in our bases so that a trigger can be triggered to grant your character a rescue the contact mission? Fine. Actual contact given arcs/missions/TFs/SFs? Should only be available from the in zone contact. The contact is visiting your base. As a guest, (s)he has no work for you.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Rudra