Echo

[Without_Pause]

Just watched the first episode. I think my biggest take away is having a show which isn't being done in a metropolis as being a nice change. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

Uhm . . .   yeah. I think I'll pass.

 

 

[Mr. Vee]

My favorite bits were her acquaintances, most of whom were reservation dogs cast members, but sadly it kinda seemed like they were doing res dogs fanfic.

[Ghost]

I actually enjoyed it

Thought the finale was very anti-climactic, but was still entertained by the entire series

[BrandX]

Boring.  Echo wasn't interesting in Hawkeye, so I was hoping this would make her interesting.  She's boring.  Actress has no charisma.  Character has no sympathy.  I had no reason to root for her at all.

It had some typical "Talk crap about what went down moments" as lots of shows tho, but I do that to shows I love, so don't take that as a complaint.  It's more of a "It wasn't great and it had that problem"

 

The mystical aspects they added in were meh and the ancestor scenes weren't interesting either.  I was pretty meh with the acting in them.

Show needed lots of work.  2/5 Stars

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

  On 1/14/2024 at 3:11 AM, BrandX said:

Show needed lots of work.  2/5 Stars

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Needed a heavy edit - probably down to 4 episodes - and better structuring. Has the typical D+ flaw of front-loading backstory: sure, it's meant to be binged, but every episode needs to hold your eyeballs. Much use of skip button.

 

What did hold attention - and needed more of - was D'Onofrio/Cox time. Those two are good together, but their interactions were spread thinner than the trailers would suggest. 

 

So... IM(np)HO, not great (as it wants to be), not terrible (as some would say), eminently skippable.

 

If there's one bit to note going forward...

  Reveal hidden contents

It's the mid-creds lead in to Born Again, with Fisk considering a run for NYC Mayor. In the comics, Fisk wins through vote rigging, and promptly bans costumed freaks in the city. (Whether that also affects assorted tourist-baiting lunatics in Times Square / High Line / Battery Park I wouldn't know, but that'd be a vote-winner with me).

 

Matt also becomes Deputy Mayor to undermine him. That's perhaps a little too convenient to play in a gritty TV drama rather than the comics. So you could roll it back to Fisk running a three-way pincer attack through legitimate intervention (NYPD), legislative and criminal channels.

 

[BrandX]

  On 1/15/2024 at 12:18 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Needed a heavy edit - probably down to 4 episodes - and better structuring. Has the typical D+ flaw of front-loading backstory: sure, it's meant to be binged, but every episode needs to hold your eyeballs. Much use of skip button.

 

What did hold attention - and needed more of - was D'Onofrio/Cox time. Those two are good together, but their interactions were spread thinner than the trailers would suggest. 

 

So... IM(np)HO, not great (as it wants to be), not terrible (as some would say), eminently skippable.

 

If there's one bit to note going forward...

  Reveal hidden contents

It's the mid-creds lead in to Born Again, with Fisk considering a run for NYC Mayor. In the comics, Fisk wins through vote rigging, and promptly bans costumed freaks in the city. (Whether that also affects assorted tourist-baiting lunatics in Times Square / High Line / Battery Park I wouldn't know, but that'd be a vote-winner with me).

 

Matt also becomes Deputy Mayor to undermine him. That's perhaps a little too convenient to play in a gritty TV drama rather than the comics. So you could roll it back to Fisk running a three-way pincer attack through legitimate intervention (NYPD), legislative and criminal channels.

 

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What should've held attention however, was Echo herself though.  In the show I didn't feel she had any presence at all.  

[Ghost]

  On 1/15/2024 at 12:18 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Needed a heavy edit - probably down to 4 episodes - and better structuring. Has the typical D+ flaw of front-loading backstory: sure, it's meant to be binged, but every episode needs to hold your eyeballs. Much use of skip button.

 

What did hold attention - and needed more of - was D'Onofrio/Cox time. Those two are good together, but their interactions were spread thinner than the trailers would suggest. 

 

So... IM(np)HO, not great (as it wants to be), not terrible (as some would say), eminently skippable.

 

If there's one bit to note going forward...

  Reveal hidden contents

It's the mid-creds lead in to Born Again, with Fisk considering a run for NYC Mayor. In the comics, Fisk wins through vote rigging, and promptly bans costumed freaks in the city. (Whether that also affects assorted tourist-baiting lunatics in Times Square / High Line / Battery Park I wouldn't know, but that'd be a vote-winner with me).

 

Matt also becomes Deputy Mayor to undermine him. That's perhaps a little too convenient to play in a gritty TV drama rather than the comics. So you could roll it back to Fisk running a three-way pincer attack through legitimate intervention (NYPD), legislative and criminal channels.

 

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You may be surprised to hear it had a huge edit.  They actually shot more episodes and after viewing, thought it needed to be edited down - which is why the pacing seems to jump around

[Sir Paladin]

I very much enjoyed the show; was it great? No but had me vested and that is what matters. Cast was great and agree with the post that having in a different low-key setting was a breath of fresh air. Also looking more forward to Born Again.

[starro]

Disney+ needs to move to quality over quantity and get some focus back.  It felt like things built on each other but since wandavision/phase 4/5 there is just no direction.  2024/25/26 needs to be a transition and retool.    What the hell was secret invasion?   Why there are no X-men at this point is beyond me,... I don't care if the excuse is covid, writers strike or resting on the laurels of Endgame.

 

I have no history of the character, so she was new.    I am more interested in the street/gang level based stories as the cosmic stuff is not working out for me.  I have no idea how they will salvage the Kang mess.   What a waste of a decent Avengers villain from the comics.

 

I liked the representation of her people, the return of Kingpin and some Daredevil.   I look forward to Daredevil when that comes out someday.   It was good there was no final act CGI fly around battle shooting laser beams at each other as that;'s been done too many times.  The show and Episodes 4 and 5 felt like they ran out of budget/time/support.... i would have combined the two into an hour.    I hope she turns up in other movie/tv roles as Hawkeye/Echo was her first acting credits.

[BrandX]

  On 1/16/2024 at 12:09 AM, starro said:

Disney+ needs to move to quality over quantity and get some focus back.  It felt like things built on each other but since wandavision/phase 4/5 there is just no direction.  2024/25/26 needs to be a transition and retool.    What the hell was secret invasion?   Why there are no X-men at this point is beyond me,... I don't care if the excuse is covid, writers strike or resting on the laurels of Endgame.

 

I have no history of the character, so she was new.    I am more interested in the street/gang level based stories as the cosmic stuff is not working out for me.  I have no idea how they will salvage the Kang mess.   What a waste of a decent Avengers villain from the comics.

 

I liked the representation of her people, the return of Kingpin and some Daredevil.   I look forward to Daredevil when that comes out someday.   It was good there was no final act CGI fly around battle shooting laser beams at each other as that;'s been done too many times.  The show and Episodes 4 and 5 felt like they ran out of budget/time/support.... i would have combined the two into an hour.    I hope she turns up in other movie/tv roles as Hawkeye/Echo was her first acting credits.

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To my knowledge, they can't do the X-Men yet, without using the same actors already playing the parts on FOX.  I personally want them recast and don't care for the idea of mixing FOX X-Men into the MCU, but I wasn't 100% on with mixing SONY Spider-Man and Sony-verse into the MCU either 😛

 

[Ghost]

  On 1/16/2024 at 1:43 PM, BrandX said:

 

To my knowledge, they can't do the X-Men yet, without using the same actors already playing the parts on FOX.  I personally want them recast and don't care for the idea of mixing FOX X-Men into the MCU, but I wasn't 100% on with mixing SONY Spider-Man and Sony-verse into the MCU either 😛

 

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I don’t see why they have to use the same actors since Marvel owns the movie rights - they should be able to cast whomever they want

[Without_Pause]

X-Men Spoiler: 

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They already used Beast in The Marvels. I'm not saying they would use the same actor going forward or it was the previous actor. I honestly haven't checked, but to say they can't use the X-Men is false.

 

Edited January 16, 2024 by Without_Pause

[BrandX]

  On 1/16/2024 at 10:04 PM, Ghost said:

I don’t see why they have to use the same actors since Marvel owns the movie rights - they should be able to cast whomever they want

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Contracts to play the character.

[BrandX]

  On 1/16/2024 at 11:14 PM, Without_Pause said:

X-Men Spoiler: 

  Reveal hidden contents

They already used Beast in The Marvels. I'm not saying they would use the same actor going forward or it was the previous actor. I honestly haven't checked, but to say they can't use the X-Men is false.

 

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  Reveal hidden contents

That does go back to what I said about having to use the actors who already play the part.

 

[Ghost]

  On 1/16/2024 at 11:54 PM, BrandX said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

That does go back to what I said about having to use the actors who already play the part.

 

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Marvel/Disney hold the movie rights to the characters - not the actors.
 

I’m sorry, but You’re gonna have to show me where it says that the studio is contractually obligated to only use the previous actors , because the only other time I heard something like this is when Twitter/Reddit users decided Majors was the only one allowed to play Kang per contract - which was false

 

 

Edited January 17, 2024 by Ghost

[Without_Pause]

I can't fathom any actor being tied to an X-Men character which Marvel has to use due to a contract. The X-Men trilogy was completed. Wolverine is done. Hugh Jackman even said he was done with Wolverine until Ryan Reynolds/Marvel essentially begged him to come back. Also, this would be similar to FF or the Defender characters from Netflix. Once you switch studios, there is no contract which goes between the studios. Hell, there were like 3 different Punisher movies, and I think they all used different actors for Punisher. 

 

I watched through E3. I find the series solid, but in the 6-7 range which feels like a default for anything D+ these days.

[Without_Pause]

  On 1/16/2024 at 12:09 AM, starro said:

 Why there are no X-men at this point is beyond me,

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X-Men are being covered this year via a new cartoon and Deadpool 3. Technically Ms. Marvel is a mutant in the MCU. IIRC, they literally couldn't use the word mutant until last year.

[Ghost]

  On 1/17/2024 at 4:42 AM, Without_Pause said:

I can't fathom any actor being tied to an X-Men character which Marvel has to use due to a contract. The X-Men trilogy was completed. Wolverine is done. Hugh Jackman even said he was done with Wolverine until Ryan Reynolds/Marvel essentially begged him to come back. Also, this would be similar to FF or the Defender characters from Netflix. Once you switch studios, there is no contract which goes between the studios. Hell, there were like 3 different Punisher movies, and I think they all used different actors for Punisher. 

 

I watched through E3. I find the series solid, but in the 6-7 range which feels like a default for anything D+ these days.

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I have to say it would be unprecedented for a studio to give away control of a character they own, to an actor.

Not to mention the fact that some of the X-Men have been played by more than one actor already.

Edited January 17, 2024 by Ghost

[BrandX]

  On 1/17/2024 at 4:49 AM, Without_Pause said:

X-Men are being covered this year via a new cartoon and Deadpool 3. Technically Ms. Marvel is a mutant in the MCU. IIRC, they literally couldn't use the word mutant until last year.

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She's a mutant in the comics now, too

[BrandX]

  On 1/17/2024 at 12:49 AM, Ghost said:

Marvel/Disney hold the movie rights to the characters - not the actors.
 

I’m sorry, but You’re gonna have to show me where it says that the studio is contractually obligated to only use the previous actors , because the only other time I heard something like this is when Twitter/Reddit users decided Majors was the only one allowed to play Kang per contract - which was false

 

 

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You're right.  I went and looked around on it and it looks to just have been a rumor that kept getting spread and had nothing to do with actor contracts.

Seems more of a "We have a 5 year plan, we're sticking to it, we didn't even know we'd get them"

Though, that said, I'd say many think their last 5 year plan has sucked.  😛

[starro]

  On 1/16/2024 at 10:04 PM, Ghost said:

I don’t see why they have to use the same actors since Marvel owns the movie rights - they should be able to cast whomever they want

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It does not surprise me if legacy Marvel or current Disney signed dumb dumb dumb contracts.  (yes, three levels of dumb).      I LOVE Sean Howe's book Marvel Comics the Untold History.  You will drop your jaw reading about bad business decisions whether bad economic times or even when the company was riding flush with cash and legacy Marvel would make bad business decisions.

 

Interestingly Screencrush reported Johnathan Majors had in his contract only he could play Kang.  This is all third hand and I never tried to find out more.  I can see the advantage of signing an actor to keep them tied to the franchise so they don't go away and do other movies.  I can now certainly see the disadvantage when it all goes sideways.  

[Ghost]

  On 1/17/2024 at 10:20 PM, starro said:

 

It does not surprise me if legacy Marvel or current Disney signed dumb dumb dumb contracts.  (yes, three levels of dumb).      I LOVE Sean Howe's book Marvel Comics the Untold History.  You will drop your jaw reading about bad business decisions whether bad economic times or even when the company was riding flush with cash and legacy Marvel would make bad business decisions.

 

Interestingly Screencrush reported Johnathan Majors had in his contract only he could play Kang.  This is all third hand and I never tried to find out more.  I can see the advantage of signing an actor to keep them tied to the franchise so they don't go away and do other movies.  I can now certainly see the disadvantage when it all goes sideways.  

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He was going to look funny playing Kamala Kang in the next season of Ms Marvel.

Seriously though, since It’s widely reported that Marvel have already been looking for a new actor - I think it’s safe to say that the report of Majors contract is BS

 

Marvel has a habit of signing it’s stars to multi picture deals to insure they are available for more movies.  That’s a big difference from signing exclusivity of a character away to an actor.

Think of it this way.

If they gave that offer to RDJ, he could have held up Endgame by saying “I decided that I need 10x the paycheck or there will be no Iron Man in Marvels biggest movie!”

Edited January 18, 2024 by Ghost

[BrandX]

  On 1/18/2024 at 12:14 AM, Ghost said:

He was going to look funny playing Kamala Kang in the next season of Ms Marvel.

Seriously though, since It’s widely reported that Marvel have already been looking for a new actor - I think it’s safe to say that the report of Majors contract is BS

 

Marvel has a habit of signing it’s stars to multi picture deals to insure they are available for more movies.  That’s a big difference from signing exclusivity of a character away to an actor.

Think of it this way.

If they gave that offer to RDJ, he could have held up Endgame by saying “I decided that I need 10x the paycheck or there will be no Iron Man in Marvels biggest movie!”

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I would think, even if it was in his contract, they likely had a clause in the contract in case of such things as "Criminal acts" or such.  Though, I would hope it would it at least be on a "If found guilty" for his case (which he was).