Seeking Spines Advice

[Timeshadow]

Greetings, mighty DPS Lords. I come humbly seeking your wisdom 🙇😝

So I've got a thematic idea for a Spines/Stone stuck in my head but, having never played Spines, I'm hoping to get some advice on how to build it. Here are my specific questions:
 

1. What's the ST damage like? I understand Spines is an AoE focused set but as a Scrapper I like being able to focus down hard targets relatively fast. With Spines having just Barb Swipe, Lunge, and Impale for ST attacks, can I reasonably expect to be able to do this quickly?
    
2. Is Throw Spines worth it? Normally, I'd balk at a T9 that only does (According to Mids) 101.5 unenhanced damage. There's the AoE component to consider but I'm wondering if I could skip it in favor of Barb Swipe for a more filled out ST chain while relying on Spine Burst, Quills, and Ripper to cover my AoE needs.
    
3. What about Quills + Mud Pots? In theory, this seems like it'd be a great combo for passive AoE damage and some level of slows to keep mobs from getting away. Looking at an actual build though, it seems like power selection gets kinda tight and Mud Pots might be worth skipping in favor of something else.

 

That's all I've got for now but please feel free to drop any other pointers you have. I'm not looking to go crazy with this character (Not trying to solo AVs or anything) but I'd definitely like to get a better understanding of the set before I invest the time and inf into it. 

[Thraxen]

1.  Not great but it’s fine. 

 

2.  Yes, it’s awesome. 
 

3.  Two damage auras are the reason to play these together. Should be great. I have a spines/bio that is probably my second favorite just because all the crazy take damage. 

[arcane]

Spines single target damage is pretty dreadful, but as long as you grab Moonbeam/Zapp on a Scrapper/Stalker or Gloom on a Brute/Tanker, it won’t be that painful.

[Thraxen]

With two damage auras, and the boosted plus fire from stone, the st damage will be fine.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1.  Not stellar.  I would not consider spines as an AV killer, but it will certainly get you there for just about everything else.  As mentioned, having Moonbeam or Zapp will help a bunch with single target.  I'd think that targeting bosses with your ST and letting your auras take out minions/lts on their own is a sound strategy.

 

2.  Absolutely keep Throw Spines.  I'd even keep it over Spine Burst unless you needed melee AoE specifically for set bonuses.

 

3.  Mud pots is probably superior to Quills if you are only going to keep one, but as mentioned this is kind of the point of this combo!  Endurance is going to be a real bear.  For good times, put an Avalanche knockdown proc in one aura and Overwhelming Force knockdown proc in the other.  Knockdown is your friend when using passive damage!

 

[Grimm2]

I have the Brute version, spine/stone/energy. Nearing 150 very levels? Gloom would certainly help ST damage, but it didn't fit the concept. Extra endurance and focused acc is good, though. 

 

1. It's good enough. I skipped Impale for Barb Swipe, and tossing in Swipes is very fast and stacks a lot of dot damage. Maybe you want to train Impale instead to get bigger crits, though? 

 

2. Do get Throw Spines. It's a set that prompts you to flail at a boss, and everything else dies by association. Throw Spines is a pretty fast cast, and the DPA is comparable to Impale. A 10-target Impale with brimstone procs sounds pretty good. 

 

3. Do get both auras. Bleeding out by DoT is part of the jam here, lean into it. 

[Timeshadow]

Thanks for the insight, everybody.

 

As I'm running up the levels (Currently 27) I find myself kinda hating Impale. The damage is fine and having a ranged attack early on is great but the animation is killing me. Not only does it have that goofy baseball inspired wind up but it takes soooooo long to go off. Feels like 9 times outta 10 my targets die of old age before Impale even connects. 

 

Now I'm wondering if @Grimm2 has the right idea about skipping it in favor of Barb Swipe. I'm still running without enhancements so I can't comment on the total performance just yet but that super drawn out activation time is a problem.

 

[Thraxen]

I do the first two attacks and impale for st. I don’t like eviscerate so skip it. I take throw and burst for aoe.   If you like eviscerate you could use it instead of impale. Or snipe is cool. I take the snipe on my main but think it’s the only scrap out of 10 or so that has the snipe. I like having focused accuracy for ITFs when they get large mobs and stacked defense. I might also be addicted to physical perfection with performance shifter and power transfer procs. Really helps end and the heal is cool. 

[Timeshadow]

@Thraxen I'm thinking something along the same lines but I actually like the Ripper animation so I'm gonna take that too. I definitely like having some form of Accuracy/ToHit buff, both for ITFs and other content where mobs stack +Def and/or con purple to me. Taking the snipe for extra ST sounds great but I won't be doing any damage if I'm missing so I think I'll go with Body Mastery. The extra recovery will be great too.

I'm working on an IO build now. Trying to focus on making myself as sturdy as possible with +Recharge as a secondary concern. I'll post it for feedback when it's ready.

 

 

[Timeshadow]

Ok, here's what I managed to come up with. A couple notes/thoughts:

 

1. I take some form of stealth on every character I run. I like being able to sneak objectives during TFs and whatnot or cut down time spent in missions when I'm solo. I've tried playing without it in favor of something more meta and I always find myself missing it.
    
2. This build is super End heavy. Even with Physical Perfection slotted for +Recovery, the numbers indicate I'll be shredding through blue bar with all my toggles running. On another set, that wouldn't be a big deal because I'd have a +End click power but /Stone doesn't account for that and I'm not sure how I feel about it.
    
3. I'm sure the build could be better with purps, Hamis, D-Syncs, etc. I'm a budget builder by choice so I pretty much never include those kinds of IOs in my setups.
    

As always, your feedback is very much appreciated.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Salvadera: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Stone Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Barb Swipe -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(13)
Level 1: Rock Armor -- GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), GifoftheA-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(40)
Level 2: Lunge -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(13), CrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(39)
Level 4: Spine Burst -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(39)
Level 6: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 8: Earth's Embrace -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(36), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(37), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(39)
Level 10: Stone Skin -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(19), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), GifoftheA-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(40)
Level 12: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 14: Infiltration -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 16: Rooted -- DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(A), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(46), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(46), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50), DctWnd-Heal(50)
Level 18: Quills -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), Erd-Acc/Rchg(21), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Crystal Armor -- GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), GifoftheA-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(40)
Level 22: Ripper -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(23), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(23), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 24: Minerals -- GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), GifoftheA-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46)
Level 26: Throw Spines -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(27), Artl-Dam/Rech(27), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(29), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(29), Ann-ResDeb%(50)
Level 28: Brimstone Armor -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 30: Geode -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(34), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(34), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(34), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), NmnCnv-Heal(36)
Level 32: Mud Pots -- Avl-Rchg/KDProc(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Erd-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A), EndMod-I(43), EndMod-I(43)
Level 44: Tough -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RctArm-ResDam(45), RctArm-EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Weave -- GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), GifoftheA-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), SynSck-EndMod(15), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(15), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(43)
Level 12: Afterburner 
------------

 

Edited January 14 by Timeshadow

[Thraxen]

Here is what I'd run on a budget. Accolades are turned on as they are free and help with end.  End still looks high on paper, but mids doesn't take into account the three performance shifter procs or the end from the panacea proc.  You're end should be fine.  Have musculature t4 turned on as well.  Could always switch to other T4 musculature and sacrifice a lil dps for end mod.

 

Probably more expensive than your build but still no purple or snow sets.  Having a couple snow sets would really change the ease of soft capping defense, but they are super expensive, of course.  Would also likely get fire/cold to soft cap too.  

 

 

Forum suggestion - Scrapper (Spines - Stone Armor) 2.mbd

 

Edited January 14 by Thraxen

[Grimm2]

Here's what I've been running, as a Brute. It's not updated with the new power level availability, I took mostly primary/secondary powers until 32, then started adding in Fighting, took Focused Acc at 35. I've been running Agility Radial alpha, I imagine you'd want Musculature Radial.

 

This is not a budget build, but it can give you a framework to shoot for. I was shooting for 3k hp, 100% slow resist, and some buffer defense above 45%. The buffer is helpful, but a distinct choice that I'm sure takes away from other areas of the build. Fat defense debuffs still hurt, like from Arachnos, and those revamped BP radiation bosses, and the lower F/C defense means that Malta Gunslinger bosses need attention...but not much else phases him. You'd also cap HP with fewer bonuses and Earth's Embrace, I imagine.

 

For budget picks...the pbaoe 6-slot combo of 3 Eradication/3 Cleaving Blow is good for adding E/N def. Reactive Armors are helpful, Ice Mistral's Torment is understandably not a top set but because of that you can pick them up cheap. Throw Spines actually has a slow worth enhancing, 40%, as opposed to 16% for other Spines attacks. A Force Feedback +recharge proc in Ripper can shore up recharge early on too.

Brute - Spines - Stone Armor Dwarven Battlerager.mxd

[UltraAlt]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:14 AM, Timeshadow said:

Here are my specific questions:

 

Here's mine.

 

Are you planning on playing the character through the game or just getting power-leveled to level 50?

Are you planning playing the character in missions at level 50 or are you just planning on farming with it at level 50?

[Timeshadow]

On 1/15/2024 at 11:01 AM, UltraAlt said:

 

Here's mine.

 

Are you planning on playing the character through the game or just getting power-leveled to level 50?

Are you planning playing the character in missions at level 50 or are you just planning on farming with it at level 50?

 

I'm planning on playing it normally, both while leveling and at 50+. Call me a traditionalist but I never PL or farm. Nothing against people who do. It's just boring to me. 

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, Timeshadow said:

I'm planning on playing it normally, both while leveling and at 50+. Call me a traditionalist but I never PL or farm. Nothing against people who do. It's just boring to me. 

 

I don't play the 50+ content at all, so I can't help with that part.

 

The first character I ever made in CoH - before the Sunset and here on Homecoming - was Spine/Regen scrapper. 

 

On 1/12/2024 at 9:14 AM, Timeshadow said:

What's the ST damage like? I understand Spines is an AoE focused set but as a Scrapper I like being able to focus down hard targets relatively fast. With Spines having just Barb Swipe, Lunge, and Impale for ST attacks, can I reasonably expect to be able to do this quickly?

 

The Single Target damage is fine. 

Spreading the spiny love with is -Rech, -SPD and you can slot Slows to keep the enemies fairly tight so you can take them out one at a time.

But like most sets with Slows, you aren't likely to be super fast without Hasten or recharges slotted.

 

On 1/12/2024 at 9:14 AM, Timeshadow said:

Is Throw Spines worth it? Normally, I'd balk at a T9 that only does (According to Mids) 101.5 unenhanced damage. There's the AoE component to consider but I'm wondering if I could skip it in favor of Barb Swipe for a more filled out ST chain while relying on Spine Burst, Quills, and Ripper to cover my AoE needs.

 

It works for me, but I'm a character conception player, and it is in character conception to get the power.

I'm pretty sure I had all the spines powers on my original before the Sunset character that made it to 50.

The Homecoming version doesn't have Confront. Instead I went with Teleport Target. Allowing me to teleport one foe directly in front of my character from outside of the LoS of other foes.

 

On 1/12/2024 at 9:14 AM, Timeshadow said:

What about Quills + Mud Pots? In theory, this seems like it'd be a great combo for passive AoE damage and some level of slows to keep mobs from getting away. Looking at an actual build though, it seems like power selection gets kinda tight and Mud Pots might be worth skipping in favor of something else.

 

I don't use that combo, but the slow would be stacking.

Basically, both of those powers help keeping the foes from getting away by slowing them.

It seem that the the fire damage from Mud Pots would end up doing more damage to a greater number of foe types than the lethal damage from Quills.

But like I said previously, I would go with what fits with character conception. 

 

I don't think you really need both unless you are trying to tank or be controller-like with your scrapper. 

 

On 1/12/2024 at 9:14 AM, Timeshadow said:

That's all I've got for now but please feel free to drop any other pointers you have.

 

I usually hunt with the Teleport Target and to whittle down a crowd.

 

When I go in, I try to circle round the crowd to herd them into as tight of a group as I can - partially to AoE and partially to keep them from getting away.

With all the slows going on. they are going to have a hard time getting away if you keep blocking them from escaping.

Nail down runners with the Impale before they get out of range of your kill zone ... errr containment area for imminent arrest.