Telekinesis or telekinot enough

[luxlorica]

So many changes coming. So many nerfs. So many interesting alterations to game elements.

But Mind Control... ehh, pretty much the same.

 

EXCEPT for the one guaranteed skipable power that seemed tailor made to annoy everyone else and keep mobs alive.

 

Telekinesis. It picks up a mob and slowly moves it away from you with constant concentration such that anyone who wants to attack it has to go chase it down  or at least get it back into range as it balloon-bobs out of aoes and into a corner.

But now (with the upcoming issue) it is supposed to gather nearby mobs up and clump them together, which can make them convenient aoe targets. Its a big change that might make the power not only relevant but actually desirable, especially in a team setting.

But do you think it will be enough to make Mind Control viable over all?

 

I think its a good change. But Mind control as a power set is hurting. It is not just a late bloomer but a last second bloomer with its only interesting feature being the possibility of a permanent mass confuse assuming the build has enough mega-inf invested.

Otherwise it does terrible damage, offers terrible survivability, no sustain, has no pet, and its only effects of note are on such long cooldowns that they might as well be p2w novelty purchases while Plant Control is confusing entire spawns from level 8.

Do you think the new Telekinesis will make Mind Control great again... or ever?

[Frozen Burn]

Mind Control has always need help to be more balanced compared to the other control sets that get an AOE immob that does damage, which gives containment, which then gives double damage.  Hopefully, the new telekinesis will help with that.  Another problem is that it also has a AOE Sleep and an AOE fear that gives no benefit to Containment for Controls.  While all these powers are good individually and useful, and other sets have them, no other set has ALL of them in one - and that is why Mind Control always feels lesser on a Controller.

 

For Dominators, it's a different story as Containment and dealing damage isn't an issue - all of these powers build Domination and fuel their uber-ness.

 

And no, Mass Confusion can never be perma.  It has a base recharge of 240s and lasts for 37.25s... with max global recharge, you can only get it down to 48s recharge.  You'd have to have lots of speed boost from others to get that to perma.  ....this is hurtful for Mind Controllers when Plant Control gets an AOE confuse power that is available at lvl 8, has same duration, but recharges in 60s (or 12s with max global recharge).  That is a HUGE imbalance, imo.

[luxlorica]

3 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

And no, Mass Confusion can never be perma.

Huh, I thought that was possible...

Ahh well, I stand corrected.

---EDIT

AhaHH!! it IS possible, because you can not only lower the recharge of the build but you can extend the confusion period such that the recharge is inside the duration.

There is a build that does just that

 

Spoiler

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Edited January 25 by luxlorica

[Cpt. Caveat]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:54 PM, Frozen Burn said:

Mind Control has always need help to be more balanced compared to the other control sets that get an AOE immob that does damage, which gives containment, which then gives double damage.  Hopefully, the new telekinesis will help with that.  Another problem is that it also has a AOE Sleep and an AOE fear that gives no benefit to Containment for Controls.  While all these powers are good individually and useful, and other sets have them, no other set has ALL of them in one - and that is why Mind Control always feels lesser on a Controller.

 

For Dominators, it's a different story as Containment and dealing damage isn't an issue - all of these powers build Domination and fuel their uber-ness.

 

And no, Mass Confusion can never be perma.  It has a base recharge of 240s and lasts for 37.25s... with max global recharge, you can only get it down to 48s recharge.  You'd have to have lots of speed boost from others to get that to perma.  ....this is hurtful for Mind Controllers when Plant Control gets an AOE confuse power that is available at lvl 8, has same duration, but recharges in 60s (or 12s with max global recharge).  That is a HUGE imbalance, imo.

I kinda thought confusion was generally frowned upon in groups because of the potential loss of XP if a mob gets a killing blow. 
 

Or is this different now or just more acceptable in groups?

[Frozen Burn]

8 minutes ago, Cpt. Caveat said:

I kinda thought confusion was generally frowned upon in groups because of the potential loss of XP if a mob gets a killing blow. 
 

Or is this different now or just more acceptable in groups?

 

It isn't frowned upon like it was back in the day.  But yes, there still is a loss of XP/Inf from confused mobs fighting each other.  I think there were improvements to this at one time to lessen the loss.  But speed is what most people seem to care about these days. 

 

Basically, confusion powers are such a strong control mechanism mitigating all incoming damage, mobs are then easily wiped out quickly, and the loss in XP/Inf is negligible.  Quickly moving onto the next mob or the end objective seems to outweigh the loss of any XP/Inf so people can get next thing/reward.

[Psyonico]

23 minutes ago, Cpt. Caveat said:

the potential loss of XP if a mob gets a killing blow.

I should point out that it has nothing to do with the killing blows, any damage a confused enemy does reduces the XP gained.  However, you end up getting more experience in the long run by defeating enemies faster.

[Cpt. Caveat]

52 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I should point out that it has nothing to do with the killing blows, any damage a confused enemy does reduces the XP gained.  However, you end up getting more experience in the long run by defeating enemies faster.

Ahh ok, speed is king these days. 
That puts a damper on any one who needs “set up time” pre pull

[Uun]

There's a focused feedback thread in the Beta forums that includes the changes to Telekinesis, but the thread covers a bunch of updates so you'll have to weed through to find the TK posts. I tested the new TK and while the increased target cap/radius and the distance limit are improvements, particularly the ability to quickly group up a spawn, the change from hold to immobilize essentially requires that you apply another AoE control to avoid being attacked. Overall, not convinced this is an improvement vs. the existing version. With a 30s duration and 120s recharge, I don't think the revised TK solves the containment issue for Mind controllers. 

 

[CFIndustries]

Apparently I'm the only one who likes the current TK as apower, situational, strategic "hold"?

 

At least on a dom, anyway.

 

I use it to push mobs into corners, away from the backfield back towards the tanker, as a control when the feces hits the fan, and more. Not often, but enough to make it useful.

 

Having it last X amount of time and then shut off sounds like a downgrade.

[Uun]

2 hours ago, CFIndustries said:

Having it last X amount of time and then shut off sounds like a downgrade.

IMO the time limit isn't the issue. There isn't much you can't defeat in 30 seconds, although increasing the recharge from 60s to 120s certainly is a downgrade. Increasing the radius from 10 to 20 ft and the target cap from 5 to 16 are both big improvements, as is the new mechanic that clumps the mobs together and keeps them at a fixed distance (instead of repelling them into infinity). My concern is trading a hard control for a soft control. Mobs hit by the new TK can and will shoot back at you, requiring you to use another AoE control to avoid being attacked.

[CFIndustries]

Just now, Uun said:

IMO the time limit isn't the issue. There isn't much you can't defeat in 30 seconds, although increasing the recharge from 60s to 120s certainly is a downgrade. Increasing the radius from 10 to 20 ft and the target cap from 5 to 16 are both big improvements, as is the new mechanic that clumps the mobs together and keeps them at a fixed distance (instead of repelling them into infinity). My concern is trading a hard control for a soft control. Mobs hit by the new TK can and will shoot back at you, requiring you to use another AoE control to avoid being attacked.

 

Well, not all the teams I am on meet your 30s criteria. 😉

 

Radius and target cap are nice. Though…the target cap now is only five? Sure feels like I've pushed more than that before, but maybe it just seems that way in the heat of combat.

 

And yeah…getting shot back at would be a huge problem, especially with a larger target cap. That would mean, for me, I would not take TK at all since the risk-vs-reward in my use case would be suspect. It's already very situational, and this would make the use case even more narrow. I mean I have some durable doms and controllers, but too much aggro (or worse, stuns) would be unhealthy.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I miss the days when we could confuse Vazhilok bombers who destroyed their colleagues 🙂

 

Fun times.