Best Tank Secondary for Boss Control

[BlueOne]

What secondaries would you recommend for a tank who wants to go toe-to-toe with the biggest boss, and make sure that no one gets hurt by them?

 

AoEs are nice, but secondary.  Affects that will make Elite Bosses not get to attack, or miss, are what I'm really looking for.

 

My go-to previously was Energy Melee, but I gather that no longer cuts it post-nerf.  So what else is out there that can mess up a Boss's game plan?

[Heraclea]

This is another reason why I am a fan of Dark Melee.  Touch of Fear is a double threat for this.  It will take several stacks to actually fear a boss.  But each attack that hits in Dark Melee does -tohit on the target(s) except for Soul Drain and Dark Consumption.  All of them can also take a Dark Watcher's Despair, Chance for Recharge Slow.  The debuff lasts for 22 seconds so it stacks easily.  Doing -tohit on the boss is the functional equivalent of giving your team defense to the boss's attacks. 

 

Knockdown is another form of melee control; it's the reason why Foot Stomp is still popular.  But versus one boss, any tanker can get some knockdown by taking Air Superiority. 

[FUBARczar]

Yeah DM is probably King for ST Boss control, but if you like EM, Radiation Melee is a great replacement with added benefits, like a heal, -def that you can put two -res procs into, and much better AoE. 

[Sarrate]

Affects that will make Elite Bosses not get to attack, or miss, are what I'm really looking for.

 

Are you talking about regular Elite Bosses or Archvillains/Heroes reduced to Elite Bosses?

 

The former I believe have 6 points of status protection (so double that of a normal boss) which already make them inherently hard to control.

 

The latter have Archvillain Resistance as well as Purple Triangles. Archvillain Resistance means all debuffs are less effective against them (87% at lvl50). Purple triangles basically means you're not hard controlling them while they're up (50s up, 25s down). (It looks like fear isn't protected by Purple Triangles? Seems hard to believe, but if so, that's a pretty big plus for Dark Melee.)

 

So, depending on your intent, controlling Elite Bosses is pretty darn tough.

 

Another potential option would be Kinetic Melee, as all its attacks have a damage debuff which isn't affected by Purple Triangles. The con being they don't last very long, so you probably couldn't stack the effect too high. (Never played KM, myself.)

 

For controlling normal bosses, Heraclea brings up a good point with knockdown. I was actually going to suggest Stone Melee for regular bosses. It can hold a boss in one shot (Seismic Smash), has pretty reliable knockdowns in its core single target abilities (Stone Mallet - 50%, Heavy Mallet - 75%), has AoE knockdowns (Tremor - 80%, Fault - 100%), and an AoE stun, that with slotting can be stacked to stun bosses (Fault).

[You]

I am actually trying to build a tank that does not put damage as a priority after tanking. I want to see if there is a set-combo that is first tanky than offer some other effects - like control or debuff.

 

Any suggestion?

[Coyote]

I am actually trying to build a tank that does not put damage as a priority after tanking. I want to see if there is a set-combo that is first tanky than offer some other effects - like control or debuff.

 

Any suggestion?

 

Stone Melee is probably the best as a melee control set. What should be a 2nd AoE for the set is instead an AoE knockup/Disorient power, and it has a very good single-target Hold attack with very high damage.

[Warboss]

By control, do you mean maintain aggro on yourself (keep the minions and bosses punching you only), or do you actually want to Stun/Hold/Fear/Slow/"control" them?

 

If you want them to keep punching you only, spam your tier one attack and look at slotting it with a Taunt Enhancement, or set. Slot taunts into your aggro and damage aura/s, and in your AoEs, one is usually enough.

 

If you want to keep them held, look at slotting one of the +2 mag procs (Lock Down and one of the Winter Sets), in the appropriate powers (Ice, SS, KinM, Stone, and Nrg (I'm probably forgetting one in there).

 

If you want to keep them Stunned, look at one of the stunning sets (Stone, Nrg, KinM(?), and slot for stunning.

 

For Fear, Dark Melee and Dark Armor combined (DA can also be used for Stunning).

 

Ice Melee is actually not as bad as some folks may remember it and at some point Ice Patch actually started knocking things down again. Pair this with a with Taunt Aura, and AoEs and you can get very good control/aggro control. Ice Melee also offers some slowing with all attacks and Frost now has a "wider" deeper cone than it used to (depending on when you stopped playing).

 

Another tactic for slotting is go for recharge on your AoEs. Faster firing powers with or w/o Taunt slotted will gather and help hold aggro.

 

Take Taunt an put a few slots in it. There are several sets that provide beneficial advantages and a few interesting single procs as well.

 

Ice Armor/Stone Melee is very "controlly"

Ice Armor/Spines does a very good job of controlling aggro.

 

Stone/Ice Melee is interesting if not boring and slow to play/level (imo, ymmv).

 

Rad Armor/Ice Melee has good "control"  and is very support and utility oriented.

 

I'm not sure of the mechanics of it (and maybe someone that knows them or understands them better than I can fill us in on their effect), but I've noticed that "sticky" (DoT) powers hold aggro better as well. So thing like Chilling Embrace, Spines, End Drains ("ticking damage and effects") would all contribute to holding aggro as well.

 

 

 

[jack_nomind]

If you want them to keep punching you only, spam your tier one attack and look at slotting it with a Taunt Enhancement, or set. Slot taunts into your aggro and damage aura/s, and in your AoEs, one is usually enough.

 

...

 

I'm not sure of the mechanics of it (and maybe someone that knows them or understands them better than I can fill us in on their effect), but I've noticed that "sticky" (DoT) powers hold aggro better as well. So thing like Chilling Embrace, Spines, End Drains ("ticking damage and effects") would all contribute to holding aggro as well.

 

Only the longest taunt matters.  Slotting anything more than your actual Taunt for taunt duration is usually ineffective, but you might get a little bit out of slotting a damage aura with it.  Taunts + damage are 10-100x better than damage alone, but Taunt alone will not keep aggro.

 

Aggro is kept and calculated as things take damage, so having a taunt and a DoT on something will very often force you back to the top of their hate list.  Damage auras usually aren't quite as good as a DoT effect you can put on multiple targets, but they do continuously pulse both attacks and taunts on up to 10 mobs at a time, so the mobs will by default be much more interested in you than anything that's never hit them, or hasn't hit them in a while.

[Scientist]

An Epic pool available for Tankers that I think is underrated in this regard is Soul Mastery, which has Darkest Night.  That is -21% damage on the target, and I don't believe -damage gets the automatic 87% or more reduction of effect that most other debuffs like -tohit get against AVs.  -resist is the other exception to that reduction I know of.  The nice feature of that is not only is it like stacking another 21% damage resist on top of your other resists, if the AV does an AoE that hits the rest of the party, it reduces damage on them as well. 

 

What I'm not sure of is how much Taunt effect comes from a  non-damaging toggle debuff.  The threat multiplication calculations I've seen work based on a damage multiplier.  I can tell you from playing defenders that toggle debuffs do generate aggro, but I've never seen anything on how they multiply with Taunt.