Tina Macintyre - Mission Reworks?

[Lockely]

So, I just recently played through basically all of Tina Macintyre's updated post-GR missions (Peregrine Island/Portal Corps) and found the map and objective choices in many of them to be incredibly redundant and in need of a little bit of TLC. Not to mention she has a *lot* of missions with missed potential. And I mean, like, a *lot* of missions:

 

Arc missions Part 2, Part 7, and the non-arc mission "Rescue the Freedom Fighters all use the same overly-large outdoor Paragon map with almost no way to find the objectives other than combing the map grid-by-grid and destroying every single enemy until you can find the tiny corner where the captive NPCs or glowies are tucked away. There isn't any unique dialogue tied to approaching them to let the player know they're close either.

Most of her random missions suffer from being in a massive open-world map with one tiny glowy to find, one-to-five NPCs to fnd, or one-to-five NPCs to kill, many with time limits. They're all mostly an exercise in patience than anything else.

Additionally, one of her randoms, "Disrupt Anti-Matter's Plans" is basically incongruent with the plot of her story arc, as it's dealing with the same thing, but worse, and if you do it post-story arc, it feels like Anti-Matter, Tina, *and* the player have all suffered a bout of amnesia and forget everything about it. 

In the end, the non-arc missions end up feeling like (or outright being) filler, and while the arc itself contains a bit of filler as a treat, it kinda feels like a huge missed opportunity? For a lot of players, these will be their first looks into the alternate universes that make up the CoH setting (Praetoria notwithstanding). Nearly all of the visits to the other universes are superficial at most, and it's similar to looking out onto a vast lake, only to find that it's ankle deep and you're expected to find 5 shiny rocks and a white crab somewhere under the surface of it without a hint as to where. 

The Hydra mission, despite its 'kill all' condition, is the best use of these worlds without a full accompanying story arc. We pop in, get some lore, pop back, report it and take it for analysis, then pop back over for some follow-up lore and the mission map isn't 30 square miles wide. 

I can't help but wonder if it might even be useful to move a few of these over to Talos Island with the Rift Enclosure and a new contact who is doing a little bit of *off the books* research to fill in some lower level story content. There's so much potential here and it's being wasted on filler missions that serve to let you glance at these lore rich areas but not really touch them. 

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Lockely said:

In the end, the non-arc missions end up feeling like (or outright being) filler,

That is because they are. Blue side has a lot of filler missions. Some contacts are just filler missions.

 

11 minutes ago, Lockely said:

and while the arc itself contains a bit of filler as a treat

That would be because it has filler missions as well. To make arcs feel "epic" rather than just have a quick resolution, you will find blue side has filler missions embedded in the arcs to help extend them to show your character as busy dealing with multiple problems at the same time.

(Edit: Check out the flashback version of her arc sometime. You will see how the arc was made simpler despite retaining the same length. For starters, the current version lacks the expected fail mission the original has.)

 

(Edit again: Also, while it isn't any benefit to you at this time, you can learn where those glowies and rescues are on those maps. There are limited locations for them to spawn at. The problem is, since a change back on Live to make the game easier for some computers to handle, they may not be visible until you defeat enough enemies. You will encounter those maps on other missions, and if you do them enough, you get a feel for the glowie/hostage spawn locations. Like I said, not really helpful to you at this time, but it can be over time.)

 

Edited January 29 by Rudra

[Lockely]

Right, but we should want the filler to eventually be reworked into enjoyable content, no? Especially when said filler has as much potential as the missions and locations involved in this contact and with Portal Corps as a whole. Just because it's always been this way doesn't mean it should stay this way if it's agreed to be the definition of unfun, right?

[Rudra]

Just now, Lockely said:

Right, but we should want the filler to eventually be reworked into enjoyable content, no? Especially when said filler has as much potential as the missions and locations involved in this contact and with Portal Corps as a whole. Just because it's always been this way doesn't mean it should stay this way if it's agreed to be the definition of unfun, right?

I have no opinion on that. However, I will point out that what you are asking for is most likely bottom of the barrel in priority. Filler content is just there to pad out what the characters can do, typically to help them level.

 

And since they are not part of any arc, they don't check to see if any arcs are done yet. Same with the arcs. They don't check to see if you did a specific filler mission or not. So dialogue between them ignores any chance you may have already had interaction with the characters. This even holds true between different arcs. You can encounter the same AV between different arcs, and in both/all cases, it is as if you never met before. The amount of work it would take to go back through all the stand alone missions and the arcs to figure out who meets who and when and why, and then add in extra dialogue that may be different depending on what order you happened to do the content in, is overwhelming.

[Lockely]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I have no opinion on that. However, I will point out that what you are asking for is most likely bottom of the barrel in priority. Filler content is just there to pad out what the characters can do, typically to help them level.

 

And since they are not part of any arc, they don't check to see if any arcs are done yet. Same with the arcs. They don't check to see if you did a specific filler mission or not. So dialogue between them ignores any chance you may have already had interaction with the characters. This even holds true between different arcs. You can encounter the same AV between different arcs, and in both/all cases, it is as if you never met before. The amount of work it would take to go back through all the stand alone missions and the arcs to figure out who meets who and when and why, and then add in extra dialogue that may be different depending on what order you happened to do the content in, is overwhelming.

 

That's-- not what I'm asking for? I merely pointed out that one of her randoms was made entirely irrelevant and is incongruent with her Arc missions (and seeing that she has 13 non-arc missions, can likely be trimmed entirely at no loss). The rest of her random missions just need a glow-up. They need to capitalize on the concept they are provided. Filler doesn't have to stay filler forever.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Lockely said:

 

That's-- not what I'm asking for? I merely pointed out that one of her randoms was made entirely irrelevant and is incongruent with her Arc missions (and seeing that she has 13 non-arc missions, can likely be trimmed entirely at no loss). The rest of her random missions just need a glow-up. They need to capitalize on the concept they are provided. Filler doesn't have to stay filler forever.

*shrug*

[lemming]

Now, if that "Disrupt Antimatter's plans" had the opportunity to defeat him, that would make that mission worthwhile...

 

Tina has an important role.

Multidimensional via the Hydra arc, and defeating Antimatter.   (Multi can be found a couple other ways, AM via Keyes trial)

 

The Hydra arc always bugged me since the second time you go in, you know what the Hydra  are saying and realize they're victims.  Yet, you have to beat them all up.

Edited March 18 by lemming
grammer

[Lockely]

40 minutes ago, lemming said:

Now, if that "Disrupt Antimatter's plans" had the opportunity to defeat him, that would make that mission worthwhile...

 

Tina has an important role.

Multidimensional via the Hydra arc, and defeating Antimatter.   (Multi can be found a couple other ways, AM via Keyes trial)

 

The Hydra arc always bugged me since the second time you go in, you know what the Hydra  are saying and realize their victims.  Yet, you have to beat them all up.

 

Oh, I 100% agree she has an important role. Probably one of the most important early-late game contacts, storywise! It's just a shame they wasted that on filler content. Also, I feel the Hydra thing is a bug? You don't see the NPC that imprints their thoughts on you until the second mission, but you get the clue in the first mission.

 

If I reworked that one, I'd move the 'Aue'io voice' clue to after the second mission, and add a new clue after the first that simply says "Gooped! ~ After battling the hydra, you are thoroughly drenched in their goop. Maybe someone will want to study it?", this clue would direct you to part 2 of the mission and back in at part 3. It would also solve the incongruity of the voice clue asking you to leave them alone but you deciding 'nah' and coming back to kick their asses for no reason a second time.

[Sunsette]

Doing Tina and Maria is one of the most groan inducing and boring parts of raising a new "serious" character for me. I would love a rework of their structure. 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:46 PM, Rudra said:

That is because they are. Blue side has a lot of filler missions. Some contacts are just filler missions.

 

That would be because it has filler missions as well. To make arcs feel "epic" rather than just have a quick resolution, you will find blue side has filler missions embedded in the arcs to help extend them to show your character as busy dealing with multiple problems at the same time.

 

 

I feel like these aren't filler missions 

instead they are arcs created under the old MMO model

where the game is designed to keep you playing as long as possible

so you keep playing and therefore keep paying.

that is why we have old TF/SF's of ungodly lengths &

Arcs that have us travel between zones

which spawn ambush mobs of abnormal levels throughout the city

 

The newer content is far less redundant and far more efficient

and while reworking old content may be bottom of the barrel

doing so could also repair many other issues that plague the older content

broken quests, missing objective indicators, out leveling contacts, 

 

The simple fact that Posi 1 & Posi 2 are split into 2 separate Task forces (and its still a bit of a slog)

is the perfect indicator of the systemic problem OP has brought up (imo)

personally I want more quests tbh (love that lore)

but I'm not opposed to optimization

[Rudra]

31 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

I feel like these aren't filler missions 

instead they are arcs created under the old MMO model

where the game is designed to keep you playing as long as possible

The best example I can give is the Clockwork arc that is both a contact given story arc and a TF. Both the story arc and the TF are the exact same mission on the exact same maps against the exact same named enemies in the exact same zones for each mission. The difference? The story arc is longer, by 3 missions if I remember correctly. Do you really think those 3 missions are imperative to the story? How about the 3-5, I can't remember how many, missions where you run through the exact same map in both the story arc and the TF taking down bosses for no other reason given than they are there. Those missions as a group do not contribute to the overall story presented in either the story arc or the TF. They are just repeated missions padding out the time. Like you said, to keep you playing as long as possible. However, you know what you call something that adds nothing but time/volume to something? Filler.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

32 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The best example I can give is the Clockwork arc that is both a contact given story arc and a TF. Both the story arc and the TF are the exact same mission on the exact same maps against the exact same named enemies in the exact same zones for each mission. The difference? The story arc is longer, by 3 missions if I remember correctly. Do you really think those 3 missions are imperative to the story? How about the 3-5, I can't remember how many, missions where you run through the exact same map in both the story arc and the TF taking down bosses for no other reason given than they are there. Those missions as a group do not contribute to the overall story presented in either the story arc or the TF. They are just repeated missions padding out the time. Like you said, to keep you playing as long as possible. However, you know what you call something that adds nothing but time/volume to something? Filler.

 

Rudra my dude.

technically you are correct

its just

arguing the semantics doesn't actually address the situation

lets recap.

 

It exists

why does it exist?

does it need to still exist?

Can it be fixed?

if so how?

if not, why not?

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

Rudra my dude.

technically you are correct

its just

arguing the semantics doesn't actually address the situation

lets recap.

 

It exists

why does it exist?

does it need to still exist?

Can it be fixed?

if so how?

if not, why not?

Personally, I would like a lot of the filler to just go away, but not without something worthwhile to replace it. So for contacts that are just filler missions, I would like to see them get a story arc. For contacts that have the exact same filler missions, I would at least like more variety between their missions so I'm not taking down the same named baddie on the same map from my 3rd contact in a row giving this non-random mission. For that Clockwork arc/TF, rip out the obvious filler. It just serves no purpose other than dragging out the arc to mind-numbing degrees. Aside from that? I haven't got a clue how to address this.

[Canadian Anvil]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:58 PM, Lockely said:

Right, but we should want the filler to eventually be reworked into enjoyable content, no? Especially when said filler has as much potential as the missions and locations involved in this contact and with Portal Corps as a whole. Just because it's always been this way doesn't mean it should stay this way if it's agreed to be the definition of unfun, right?

 

I just did the Maria Jenkins, and sort of the same - basic repeat missions with some map changes, but I didn't get Take Out Nightstar till I ran through 1/2 - maybe 2/3 of 6.1 to 6.11 (some before 45, but the rest not till 45).

 

Maybe they could take the Tina Macintrye missions from 6.4 to 6.11 and bundle them into a low level (15+) Neutropolis Pretorian TFs?