Invisible/Blank Claws weapon models

[Random Robot]

Now that, thanks to asymmetrical gloves, we can make a character with two hook hands it'd be pretty cool if we could make a Claws character with no weapon model for the claws.

 

(Obviously there is Savage Melee but that comes with a pretty specific built-in "savage" theme with the animations and FX, and more options are always better.)

[Rudra]

I normally agree with more options are better, but not when it comes to no weapons for weapon sets.

[Random Robot]

  On 2/1/2024 at 6:32 AM, Rudra said:

I normally agree with more options are better, but not when it comes to no weapons for weapon sets.

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It literally would not affect you in the slightest.

[Rudra]

It is a weapon set. It should have weapon models of some type. I don't care what those models are, but weapon sets should have weapons you use. Savage Melee is the no weapon claw set.

[megaericzero]

  On 2/1/2024 at 7:01 AM, Rudra said:

It is a weapon set. It should have weapon models of some type. I don't care what those models are, but weapon sets should have weapons you use.

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Gonna throw this out there again just to tease:

Monster Hunter had a no-model dual blades option specifically so your character looks like they're doing crazy bare-handed combat. 😜

 

Now as a serious response: a suggestion that comes back up from time to time - and popped up again recently in a thread but I forget which - is giving assault rifle a no-weapon option that comes from your wrists since hi-tech/power armor and exotic/cyborg weapons exist.

[Rudra]

  On 2/2/2024 at 7:47 PM, megaericzero said:

 

Gonna throw this out there again just to tease:

Monster Hunter had a no-model dual blades option specifically so your character looks like they're doing crazy bare-handed combat. 😜

 

Now as a serious response: a suggestion that comes back up from time to time - and popped up again recently in a thread but I forget which - is giving assault rifle a no-weapon option that comes from your wrists since hi-tech/power armor and exotic/cyborg weapons exist.

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I've heard the Monster Hunter response a few times. And I've seen it. I agree it looks crazy. (Edit: It doesn't look like bare-handed combat to me, just crazy. Like a lunatic about to get eaten by the critter.)

 

As for the assault rifle request? Provide a wrist mount weapon to do that, and I'm all for it. Being able to turn weapon sets into integrated power armor abilities would be nice. However, it would still need a weapon model, in this case a wrist gun or a shoulder gun.

Edited February 2, 2024 by Rudra

[Random Robot]

[Rudra]

  On 2/2/2024 at 8:59 PM, Random Robot said:

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So ask for 1-handed animations with a corresponding weapon hand. (Edit: Or use Savage Melee.)

 

Edit again: Better yet? Ask for a hook hand weapon option.

Edited February 2, 2024 by Rudra

[megaericzero]

  On 2/2/2024 at 8:35 PM, Rudra said:

I've heard the Monster Hunter response a few times.

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We definitely talked about it in a thread several months ago. Dunno who else might've brought it up.

 

  On 2/2/2024 at 8:35 PM, Rudra said:

Being able to turn weapon sets into integrated power armor abilities would be nice. However, it would still need a weapon model, in this case a wrist gun or a shoulder gun.

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Shoulder makes sense. Wrist in this case, though - that's the snag here. Any of the tech options and many other large gauntlets fit fine just adding muzzle flares to the hands. Same with the claws suggestion in the OP - the pirate hooks are perfectly fine stand-ins for claws. It's coming up with a list of (ultimately arbitrary) gloves options that work for non-weapon weapons - AR, claws, or otherwise - or any other convoluted workaround that'll be troublesome.

[Rudra]

  On 2/2/2024 at 9:13 PM, megaericzero said:

Wrist in this case, though - that's the snag here. Any of the tech options and many other large gauntlets fit fine just adding muzzle flares to the hands.

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You're right. It should probably be forearm mounted rather than wrist-mounted.

[megaericzero]

Er, sure. I more meant lower arms (and hands) in general. Wrist-blasters, arm-mounted cannons, gun-gauntlets, literal finger-guns, etc.

[Rudra]

  On 2/2/2024 at 10:21 PM, megaericzero said:

Er, sure. I more meant lower arms (and hands) in general. Wrist-blasters, arm-mounted cannons, gun-gauntlets, literal finger-guns, etc.

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Sure, more weapon options, if we can get them, are good.

[biostem]

I would love to be able to use no-claws for the claws set and claw models for savage melee.

[A.I.D.A.]

More cosmetic options is always good. Even (and perhaps especially) when that option is hiding a model you don't want.

 

The claws animations are perfectly fine re: unarmed combat. And, like the OP showed, there are plenty of gloves models which would make a great stand-in for weapons.

 

I see no downsides to the OP, only upsides.

[The Fifth Horseman]

It would be nice if we had another glove model with long clawed fingernails as an option for this too. Currently the closest one there is is the Monstrous glove, I'm thinking more along the lines of Lady Deathstrike:

[biostem]

  On 2/3/2024 at 8:46 PM, The Fifth Horseman said:

It would be nice if we had another glove model with long clawed fingernails as an option for this too. Currently the closest one there is is the Monstrous glove, I'm thinking more along the lines of Lady Deathstrike:

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The only issue there is that, for the most part, CoH characters have "mittens", so their fingers aren't really separated, so such fingertip-claws would basically just be a long mass extending from said "mitten-hands". 

[The Fifth Horseman]

  On 2/3/2024 at 8:51 PM, biostem said:

The only issue there is that, for the most part, CoH characters have "mittens", so their fingers aren't really separated, so such fingertip-claws would basically just be a long mass extending from said "mitten-hands". 

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Consider that the Monstrous and Zombie geometries already have individually modeled claws, just much shorter.

[biostem]

  On 2/4/2024 at 12:52 AM, The Fifth Horseman said:

Consider that the Monstrous and Zombie geometries already have individually modeled claws, just much shorter.

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They are still the "mitten-hands".  Yes, they have actual fingernails, but they don't flex or move individually.  Sure, you could make much longer fingernails/claws, but they'd still be a single mass...

[flyingpcp]

  On 2/1/2024 at 7:01 AM, Rudra said:

It is a weapon set. It should have weapon models of some type. I don't care what those models are, but weapon sets should have weapons you use. Savage Melee is the no weapon claw set.

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Wonder Woman has a whole-ass invisible plane. Why can't a superhero have an invisible sword/axe/what have you?

[Rudra]

  On 2/11/2024 at 8:14 PM, flyingpcp said:

Wonder Woman has a whole-ass invisible plane. Why can't a superhero have an invisible sword/axe/what have you?

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She doesn't have an invisible lasso, invisible sword, or invisible shield. We're talking weapon sets, not travel powers.

 

Edit: The only times I've "seen" invisible weapons, other than in the original Kung Fu Panda movie where the invisible trident is only "seen" on its stand, the invisible weapon hurts its would be wielder because they can't see it.

 

Edit again: Look, in the case of the hook hands (or similar weapon glove models should they be added), I'm fine with those overriding the Claws weapon models or having added claws weapon models that are hooks (and so would disappear into the hook gloves). Those are still weapons being used for the Claws weapon set. If a player wants to have claws that aren't weapons though? They have the Savage Melee set for that. (Which is why it exists.) Weapon sets being made to where there is no weapon though? No, I oppose that.

Edited February 11, 2024 by Rudra

[Oubliette_Red]

I too would like to have at the least, clawed hands (not gear) as weapon of choice for the Claws power set. Savage Melee animations and especially the stance does not always fit the theme of a character.

 

[The Fifth Horseman]

  On 2/11/2024 at 8:16 PM, Rudra said:

 If a player wants to have claws that aren't weapons though? They have the Savage Melee set for that. (Which is why it exists.) 

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Savage Melee has very specific animations that do not necessarily fit every character. 

  

  On 2/11/2024 at 8:16 PM, Rudra said:

Weapon sets being made to where there is no weapon though? No, I oppose that.

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Why, though? It sounds like just some misguided purism on your side.

[Rudra]

  On 2/13/2024 at 10:43 PM, The Fifth Horseman said:

  On 2/11/2024 at 8:16 PM, Rudra said:

 If a player wants to have claws that aren't weapons though? They have the Savage Melee set for that. (Which is why it exists.) 

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Savage Melee has very specific animations that do not necessarily fit every character. 

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Then ask for alternate animations.

 

  On 2/13/2024 at 10:43 PM, The Fifth Horseman said:

  On 2/11/2024 at 8:16 PM, Rudra said:

Weapon sets being made to where there is no weapon though? No, I oppose that.

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Why, though? It sounds like just some misguided purism on your side.

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Because it is a weapon set. Weapon sets use weapons. Even integrated weapon sets use weapons. That is what makes it a weapon set.

[megaericzero]

  On 2/13/2024 at 10:55 PM, Rudra said:

Because it is a weapon set. Weapon sets use weapons. Even integrated weapon sets use weapons. That is what makes it a weapon set.

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Given multiple invisible weapons threads have popped up in the last couple of weeks, I want to make sure I understand the point of contention.

 

Is it that

you don't consider non-weapon costume pieces suitable substitutes for true weapon models (eg: pirate hooks for claws or thick gloves for assault/beam rifle)

and/or

weapon sets have to have distinct weapon models - even as integrated weapons - that can't just be part of the normal costume options

and/or

you feel weapon sets should be distinct from bodily-integrated weapons (eg: War Machine isn't assault rifle, he's "Arsenal Blast")?

 

(I'm not trying to trap you with the A/B/C options. I just figure it's probably one or more of the above. If I've completely misunderstood, my bad.)

[biostem]

I would argue that claws are a specific outlier with regard to a "no-weapon" suggestion, since they are integrated into your character's anatomy in a way that is different than other weapon sets.  that being said, (and unless I'm misremembering), the current claws animations actually have your character using a closed fist, since the claws extend from the back of their hand, beyond the reach of said closed fist(s).  Maybe we could get a claws weapon model option that is a sort of "claw cap" that fits over the existing hand geometry but has the appearance of an open claw...