Requesting a non-AE server #TBL on July 1st

[SwitchFade]

Honestly, I couldn't care less about anyone farming or pl'ing, just keep all the posts out of chat. That way, newbies don't get exposed to it. No dfb, ae, dib or whatever in chat.

 

I, too, love to enforce censorship upon things that hurt nobody yet I personally dislike.

 

Remember, that one individual's perception that there is no harm, is not reality.

 

I appreciate you see things a certain way, I hope you can accept others don't see things how you do. There are plenty of examples of how such spam warps perception of the game and disenfranchised new players.

 

A society is a collective group that share values, behaviors ideas and agree upon good and bad. We all must be considerate of others, and not assumptive. Assuming something doesn't harm others and then doing that activity is counter to courtesy. We could assume dropping trash on the road is unharmful and do it, and require that proof be given to stop us. Those that do not believe in climate change use this argument, that pollution can't be causing change.

 

If you assume dfb spam does no harm, you may be failing to consider that it does, just based on your belief. Courtesy and conscientious attitudes dictate that we think about the negative reprocussions of our behavior BEFORE we act, and do our best to avoid harming others, even if we don't have proof it would, or believe it won't.

 

So, we all play together. No one cares about pl'ing or farming, or how fast people level. It is evident that spamming chat DOES cause harm, and people DON'T like it. The harm that it does to the long term viability of the game is evident. We don't ask that you have our opinion, just that you respect it, much as we respect your desire to run dfb.

 

Everyone who resorts to "they just want to control me, kill my fun, make me play their way," etc, is missing the real point: how you play is not the issue, it is how chat spam and how powerleveling overwhelming all modes of play, and the negative effect it has on NEW players that is the issue.

 

I firmly believe we should keep all these forms of play AND prevent the negative reprocussions of them.

 

Please refrain from sarcastic snarky comments such as the censorship comment. It's really not helpful or kind.

[SwitchFade]

Every server can be non-AE. Just don't go there. How hard is that? 

 

If you are so "weak," as you self-proclaim, that you can't manage that, we are talking about your personal failings, not failings with AE.

 

A lot of people, myself included, enjoy expressing ourselves with AE story arcs.  My stories on live were not farms, so if we follow your logic, my sadz that everyone wasn't forced to run them is justification to force everyone to run them if they log in to [a] particular server. Right?  I haz feels and a sad!  I matter more than anyone evah!!!

 

Just stop.

 

Please don't be snarky. The thread will degenerate. Even if he expressed his points, none of which I agree with, poorly, don't add to it.

[Judasace]

I don't care about AE farming, but it is funny that people defending feel the need to pretend it doesn't cerate bad players that impact the experience of others. It does. And it does so at a higher rate then would otherwise happen if it weren't there. Just not having it in the noob zone would cut down on some of it.

 

Nightly there are multiple people that join an incarnate raid only to say in /LFG chat that they don't know how to get to pocket D. After first teaching them how to use /league, it becomes evident that they have never been out of Atlas Park, have training or no enhancements and have no idea what they're doing.

 

YOu let these people on a BAF you're going to leak prisoners like bad plumbing. and yes, BAFs have failed at the prisoner stage, and done so strictly due to AE babies.

 

It doersn't matter, it's just a game, and I'm more likely to help these people than kick them, but the facts are the facts: AE creates a lot of clueless 50s. would there be clueless 50s if the farming was takng place mainly  in PI? Sure, but a lot less of them.

 

Again, I have no dog in this fight, I don't care if people are just handed fresh 50s of every class in the game for logging on, whatever. But to pretend that it doesn't impact others or tht AE isn't behind the majority of it is just being overly defensive and deliberately obtuse.

[biostem]

Honestly, I couldn't care less about anyone farming or pl'ing, just keep all the posts out of chat. That way, newbies don't get exposed to it. No dfb, ae, dib or whatever in chat.

 

I, too, love to enforce censorship upon things that hurt nobody yet I personally dislike.

 

Remember, that one individual's perception that there is no harm, is not reality.

 

I appreciate you see things a certain way, I hope you can accept others don't see things how you do. There are plenty of examples of how such spam warps perception of the game and disenfranchised new players.

 

A society is a collective group that share values, behaviors ideas and agree upon good and bad. We all must be considerate of others, and not assumptive. Assuming something doesn't harm others and then doing that activity is counter to courtesy. We could assume dropping trash on the road is unharmful and do it, and require that proof be given to stop us. Those that do not believe in climate change use this argument, that pollution can't be causing change.

 

If you assume dfb spam does no harm, you may be failing to consider that it does, just based on your belief. Courtesy and conscientious attitudes dictate that we think about the negative reprocussions of our behavior BEFORE we act, and do our best to avoid harming others, even if we don't have proof it would, or believe it won't.

 

So, we all play together. No one cares about pl'ing or farming, or how fast people level. It is evident that spamming chat DOES cause harm, and people DON'T like it. The harm that it does to the long term viability of the game is evident. We don't ask that you have our opinion, just that you respect it, much as we respect your desire to run dfb.

 

Everyone who resorts to "they just want to control me, kill my fun, make me play their way," etc, is missing the real point: how you play is not the issue, it is how chat spam and how powerleveling overwhelming all modes of play, and the negative effect it has on NEW players that is the issue.

 

I firmly believe we should keep all these forms of play AND prevent the negative reprocussions of them.

 

Please refrain from sarcastic snarky comments such as the censorship comment. It's really not helpful or kind.

 

Once we have an official definition from the devs/admins, (or whatever group/entity is in charge), then and only then can we make an objective statement about what does or does not constitute "harm".  That being said, it is also important to recognize the circumstances surrounding an interaction, as that will modify the threshold for what is or should constitute harmful actions.  For instance, if the devs determine that advertising for powerleveling teams is a valid use of chat, it may still fall under the purview of "harm" if someone were to follow you around, stand in your way, and ask to be PL'd or the like, in local or via tells...

[SwitchFade]

Honestly, I couldn't care less about anyone farming or pl'ing, just keep all the posts out of chat. That way, newbies don't get exposed to it. No dfb, ae, dib or whatever in chat.

 

I, too, love to enforce censorship upon things that hurt nobody yet I personally dislike.

 

Remember, that one individual's perception that there is no harm, is not reality.

 

I appreciate you see things a certain way, I hope you can accept others don't see things how you do. There are plenty of examples of how such spam warps perception of the game and disenfranchised new players.

 

A society is a collective group that share values, behaviors ideas and agree upon good and bad. We all must be considerate of others, and not assumptive. Assuming something doesn't harm others and then doing that activity is counter to courtesy. We could assume dropping trash on the road is unharmful and do it, and require that proof be given to stop us. Those that do not believe in climate change use this argument, that pollution can't be causing change.

 

If you assume dfb spam does no harm, you may be failing to consider that it does, just based on your belief. Courtesy and conscientious attitudes dictate that we think about the negative reprocussions of our behavior BEFORE we act, and do our best to avoid harming others, even if we don't have proof it would, or believe it won't.

 

So, we all play together. No one cares about pl'ing or farming, or how fast people level. It is evident that spamming chat DOES cause harm, and people DON'T like it. The harm that it does to the long term viability of the game is evident. We don't ask that you have our opinion, just that you respect it, much as we respect your desire to run dfb.

 

Everyone who resorts to "they just want to control me, kill my fun, make me play their way," etc, is missing the real point: how you play is not the issue, it is how chat spam and how powerleveling overwhelming all modes of play, and the negative effect it has on NEW players that is the issue.

 

I firmly believe we should keep all these forms of play AND prevent the negative reprocussions of them.

 

Please refrain from sarcastic snarky comments such as the censorship comment. It's really not helpful or kind.

 

Once we have an official definition from the devs/admins, (or whatever group/entity is in charge), then and only then can we make an objective statement about what does or does not constitute "harm".  That being said, it is also important to recognize the circumstances surrounding an interaction, as that will modify the threshold for what is or should constitute harmful actions.  For instance, if the devs determine that advertising for powerleveling teams is a valid use of chat, it may still fall under the purview of "harm" if someone were to follow you around, stand in your way, and ask to be PL'd or the like, in local or via tells...

 

If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm.

 

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm.

 

If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that.

 

Harm exists when it exists.

[Judasace]

Please explain how anyone not liking it and leaving is going to harm a fan run server for a game that was closed 7 years ago?

 

The people donating to keep the servers open aren't going to suddenly go "Damn that AE and its incessant farming! I QUIT and I'm taking my money with me!"

 

The vast majority of people came back knowing all about AE and its farming. New people will stay or go, but in such small numbers as to be insignificant either way. The cast majority of people got here because they were already interested in CoH, missed it, whatever. Its not like it's some fresh new game that needs to build an audience and a player base. The players are who they are, and as significant numbers leave or get bored, eventually the servers will close again for lack of interest or simply because the game becomes unplayable in newer hardware.

 

The game is more likely to close again due to the server operators losing motivation or interest than anything else.

 

TL;DR: A small subset of new people, already small subset, will hate AE farming and leave for some reason related to it. Those numbers are so small that it won't make any difference to anyone.

 

Honestly, I couldn't care less about anyone farming or pl'ing, just keep all the posts out of chat. That way, newbies don't get exposed to it. No dfb, ae, dib or whatever in chat.

 

I, too, love to enforce censorship upon things that hurt nobody yet I personally dislike.

 

Remember, that one individual's perception that there is no harm, is not reality.

 

I appreciate you see things a certain way, I hope you can accept others don't see things how you do. There are plenty of examples of how such spam warps perception of the game and disenfranchised new players.

 

A society is a collective group that share values, behaviors ideas and agree upon good and bad. We all must be considerate of others, and not assumptive. Assuming something doesn't harm others and then doing that activity is counter to courtesy. We could assume dropping trash on the road is unharmful and do it, and require that proof be given to stop us. Those that do not believe in climate change use this argument, that pollution can't be causing change.

 

If you assume dfb spam does no harm, you may be failing to consider that it does, just based on your belief. Courtesy and conscientious attitudes dictate that we think about the negative reprocussions of our behavior BEFORE we act, and do our best to avoid harming others, even if we don't have proof it would, or believe it won't.

 

So, we all play together. No one cares about pl'ing or farming, or how fast people level. It is evident that spamming chat DOES cause harm, and people DON'T like it. The harm that it does to the long term viability of the game is evident. We don't ask that you have our opinion, just that you respect it, much as we respect your desire to run dfb.

 

Everyone who resorts to "they just want to control me, kill my fun, make me play their way," etc, is missing the real point: how you play is not the issue, it is how chat spam and how powerleveling overwhelming all modes of play, and the negative effect it has on NEW players that is the issue.

 

I firmly believe we should keep all these forms of play AND prevent the negative reprocussions of them.

 

Please refrain from sarcastic snarky comments such as the censorship comment. It's really not helpful or kind.

 

Once we have an official definition from the devs/admins, (or whatever group/entity is in charge), then and only then can we make an objective statement about what does or does not constitute "harm".  That being said, it is also important to recognize the circumstances surrounding an interaction, as that will modify the threshold for what is or should constitute harmful actions.  For instance, if the devs determine that advertising for powerleveling teams is a valid use of chat, it may still fall under the purview of "harm" if someone were to follow you around, stand in your way, and ask to be PL'd or the like, in local or via tells...

 

If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm.

 

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm.

 

If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that.

 

Harm exists when it exists.

[Hyperstrike]

If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm.

 

If members of our community leave due to their beliefs (rather than actuality), because they all "know" something, it's a shame.  But it's not harm.

Nobody is responsible for the beliefs of another.

 

 

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

Whose responsibility is it to make sure new players are exposed to more of the game than just PL?

 

 

 

If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm.

 

Again, nobody is responsible for the beliefs/frustrations of others.  If you don't like it, don't do it. 

 

If you don't like others doing it?  Tough.

 

 

 

If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that.

 

Be very careful about speaking about what "we" want.

 

What mean "we" paleface?

-- Tonto

 

 

 

Harm exists when it exists.

 

Except where somewhere has jerrymandered what the term "harm" means.

[biostem]

Honestly, I couldn't care less about anyone farming or pl'ing, just keep all the posts out of chat. That way, newbies don't get exposed to it. No dfb, ae, dib or whatever in chat.

 

I, too, love to enforce censorship upon things that hurt nobody yet I personally dislike.

 

Remember, that one individual's perception that there is no harm, is not reality.

 

I appreciate you see things a certain way, I hope you can accept others don't see things how you do. There are plenty of examples of how such spam warps perception of the game and disenfranchised new players.

 

A society is a collective group that share values, behaviors ideas and agree upon good and bad. We all must be considerate of others, and not assumptive. Assuming something doesn't harm others and then doing that activity is counter to courtesy. We could assume dropping trash on the road is unharmful and do it, and require that proof be given to stop us. Those that do not believe in climate change use this argument, that pollution can't be causing change.

 

If you assume dfb spam does no harm, you may be failing to consider that it does, just based on your belief. Courtesy and conscientious attitudes dictate that we think about the negative reprocussions of our behavior BEFORE we act, and do our best to avoid harming others, even if we don't have proof it would, or believe it won't.

 

So, we all play together. No one cares about pl'ing or farming, or how fast people level. It is evident that spamming chat DOES cause harm, and people DON'T like it. The harm that it does to the long term viability of the game is evident. We don't ask that you have our opinion, just that you respect it, much as we respect your desire to run dfb.

 

Everyone who resorts to "they just want to control me, kill my fun, make me play their way," etc, is missing the real point: how you play is not the issue, it is how chat spam and how powerleveling overwhelming all modes of play, and the negative effect it has on NEW players that is the issue.

 

I firmly believe we should keep all these forms of play AND prevent the negative reprocussions of them.

 

Please refrain from sarcastic snarky comments such as the censorship comment. It's really not helpful or kind.

 

Once we have an official definition from the devs/admins, (or whatever group/entity is in charge), then and only then can we make an objective statement about what does or does not constitute "harm".  That being said, it is also important to recognize the circumstances surrounding an interaction, as that will modify the threshold for what is or should constitute harmful actions.  For instance, if the devs determine that advertising for powerleveling teams is a valid use of chat, it may still fall under the purview of "harm" if someone were to follow you around, stand in your way, and ask to be PL'd or the like, in local or via tells...

 

If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm.

 

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm.

 

If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that.

 

Harm exists when it exists.

 

Your definition of "harm" is so loose and general as to be nearly useless.

 

If a player leaves because they don't feel that they are leveling fast enough, then there is harm.

 

If a player leaves because they can't fully slot themselves with the best enhancements at all times, then there's harm.

 

You have a very subjective, and clearly non-unanimous definition of harm.  There are already tools in-game to filter out chat you don't like and you can either shut off XP gain or avoid AE outright, so why not make use of those, instead of worrying about what other people's subjective experiences may be?

[SwitchFade]

If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm.

 

If members of our community leave due to their beliefs (rather than actuality), because they all "know" something, it's a shame.  But it's not harm.

Nobody is responsible for the beliefs of another.

 

 

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

Whose responsibility is it to make sure new players are exposed to more of the game than just PL?

 

 

 

If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm.

 

Again, nobody is responsible for the beliefs/frustrations of others.  If you don't like it, don't do it. 

 

If you don't like others doing it?  Tough.

 

 

 

If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that.

 

Be very careful about speaking about what "we" want.

 

What mean "we" paleface?

-- Tonto

 

 

 

Harm exists when it exists.

 

Except where somewhere has jerrymandered what the term "harm" means.

 

I suggest and encourage you to be more respectful in the future, and hope you can see that veiled sarcasm isn't helpful.  A community is about the whole, and compromise. No one questions that pl'ing dfb, AE, or any of these things are fine. I'm perfectly ok with them.

 

The issue many have expressed, and if you want us to recognize your views as valid you should reciprocate, is how chat spam about it overwhelming all other forms of play for new players is harmful to new player retention.

 

We all want the game to have a healthy, viable long term community. To serve this, we must respect that new player experience should be engaging. If forms of play impact this negatively, that is harmful to long term game sustainability.

 

Your opinion is valid. So are ours. Ae spam in chat is harmful.

[biostem]

First you say "Your opinion is valid. So are ours.", then go on to immediately contradict yourself by saying "Ae spam in chat is harmful".  I contend that you are using loaded language by calling it "spam", and further, my experience has not been that chat is flooded with AE or PL request.  Is it at all possible that you are subjectively making more of this than it actually is?  Perhaps you've had some experience or otherwise detest the act of PL-ing or AE farm missions to such a degree that you simply don't want anyone to partake in those activities?

[Shinobu]

 

This thread has gone off the rails from the original proposal and should probably be locked.  It's mostly people arguing over phrasing and semantics and how you define this or that and which opinion is in the majority, and none of it is about the original proposal at all.

 

 

Besides, if it comes to it, arguments like this are... harmful.  :P

 

 

[justicebeliever]

If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm.

 

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm.

 

If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that.

 

Harm exists when it exists.

 

Harm is a pretty big stretch.  I mean maybe you are just referring to harming the "health" of the game.  But that's a ways from harming you.  Harm requires injury.  Bananas exist where they exist, but that doesn't mean I can stretch the definition to cover other fruits or vegetables.

 

And conversely (and oddly enough, I am of your mind, in that I enjoy the grind):

• If people feel like grinding to 50 is super painful, they will leave
  
• If new players are being told their playstyle is wrong, they will leave
  
• If we don't acknowledge that most people doing DFB, AE, and PL'ing are existing players, we fail to see the forest from the trees
  
• And players have been trying to find the fastest, most exploity way to get to the max level since Issue 1 and 2, 3, 4, 5, etc[/ii]
  

 

Like I said, I love the grind - never done more than a handful of DFB, never done any AE (although I do want to do the story arcs there, but not the farms).  But I can understand there is a player mentality that differs from mine and will never enjoy the game the way I do.  And I do want people to enjoy the game.

 

And I will say that 80% of LFG chat is DFB, but I can count on one hand the LFG requests for farming or powerleveling.  Maybe a little in the Help Chat...but it is still less than the constant bickering in help chat over what AT or Powerset is best and why...

 

Switchfade, I know you are going to post back about politeness, and be clear, I am being polite.  There is no sarcasm here, there is no intent to offend.  Merely to rebut what I see as a misguided viewpoint.  You are entitled to your opinion, and you are welcomed to respond, but please don't comment on my civility, because it isn't lacking

[SwitchFade]

If members of our community leave due to believing the game is terrible, because all they know of it is AE, dfb, so on... There's harm.

 

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

If people make it to 50 in a day or two, have no clue what they are doing, and frustrate others... There's harm.

 

If what we want is new players to fall in love with the game the same way we did in issues 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc.... Let's figure out how to do just that.

 

Harm exists when it exists.

 

Harm is a pretty big stretch.  I mean maybe you are just referring to harming the "health" of the game.  But that's a ways from harming you.  Harm requires injury.  Bananas exist where they exist, but that doesn't mean I can stretch the definition to cover other fruits or vegetables.

 

And conversely (and oddly enough, I am of your mind, in that I enjoy the grind):

• If people feel like grinding to 50 is super painful, they will leave
  
• If new players are being told their playstyle is wrong, they will leave
  
• If we don't acknowledge that most people doing DFB, AE, and PL'ing are existing players, we fail to see the forest from the trees
  
• And players have been trying to find the fastest, most exploity way to get to the max level since Issue 1 and 2, 3, 4, 5, etc[/ii]
  

 

Like I said, I love the grind - never done more than a handful of DFB, never done any AE (although I do want to do the story arcs there, but not the farms).  But I can understand there is a player mentality that differs from mine and will never enjoy the game the way I do.  And I do want people to enjoy the game.

 

And I will say that 80% of LFG chat is DFB, but I can count on one hand the LFG requests for farming or powerleveling.  Maybe a little in the Help Chat...but it is still less than the constant bickering in help chat over what AT or Powerset is best and why...

 

Switchfade, I know you are going to post back about politeness, and be clear, I am being polite.  There is no sarcasm here, there is no intent to offend.  Merely to rebut what I see as a misguided viewpoint.  You are entitled to your opinion, and you are welcomed to respond, but please don't comment on my civility, because it isn't lacking

 

Hrm? You were extremely courteous and respectful. You made very good points, which you don't need me to tell you that, because they're plainly good.

[SwitchFade]

 

This thread has gone off the rails from the original proposal and should probably be locked.  It's mostly people arguing over phrasing and semantics and how you define this or that and which opinion is in the majority, and none of it is about the original proposal at all.

 

 

Besides, if it comes to it, arguments like this are... harmful.  :P

 

Nonono, we just need to rename this thread to....

 

Perma Haeten. (See what I did there with "AE" and referencing the thread "Perma haten"?)

 

I 3 slot my haten. With knockback. How you haten me now?

[Doctor Brainbottle]

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

I've never heard of power levelers "believing the game is crap, and leave". On the contrary, let's be honest: some people's real problem with power levelers is precisely the fact that they AREN'T leaving! You can find herds of them hanging around in Atlas park any hour of any day, happily spamming the LFG channel for DFB and fire farms all day and all night. Do they LOOK like they're getting tired of it, and are going to leave any minute now? I'm not holding my breath.

 

 

[justicebeliever]

Hrm? You were extremely courteous and respectful. You made very good points, which you don't need me to tell you that, because they're plainly good.

 

I apologize for my mistaken assumption.  Thank you sir

[SwitchFade]

Hrm? You were extremely courteous and respectful. You made very good points, which you don't need me to tell you that, because they're plainly good.

 

I apologize for my mistaken assumption.  Thank you sir

 

I shake hands with your apology and offer my presumptions in trade for your assumption. Oh, and I apologize for the smell...

 

It was MEEEEEEE!

[SwitchFade]

If new players are only ever exposed to pl'ing and miss all the other parts of the game, and believe the game is crap, and leave.... There's harm

 

I've never heard of power levelers "believing the game is crap, and leave". On the contrary, let's be honest: some people's real problem with power levelers is precisely the fact that they AREN'T leaving! You can find herds of them hanging around in Atlas park any hour of any day, happily spamming the LFG channel for DFB and fire farms all day and all night. Do they LOOK like they're getting tired of it, and are going to leave any minute now? I'm not holding my breath.

 

You're misunderstanding.

 

Or I'm misunderspeaking.

 

Or were misundercommunicating.

 

Or, summin' summin' like that. Also, pie>cake.

[pattycake]

Hey guys! Came and read the post from time to time, and enjoyed every bit of it. This thread will be locked on July the 1st, due to the taking of space of other suggestions and feedback.

 

I'd like to thank you guys for your contributions, there was a lot of discussion on the topic and off-topics that have shed some light. Maybe some other day, a newer thread will mention the same topic, and we could have all have a go on it. Take the time and discuss more about AE/DFB, and the lock will prevent this thread from necroeing back to the top so others suggestions can be made, if you feel the topic hasn't been fulfilled, I encourage you to post your own thread and start clean-slate. I've learnt a lot from all the replies, and hope to read more before I do.

 

I didn't think the thread would last this long, but I'm glad it did.

 

The idea for me, of having an extra non-AE server, is still desirable. It is a want. I don't need it, and I certainly don't want to force it upon others. The game is heavily diverse, every player is sharing the same space, every player currently has the ability to play the way they want to. I can ignore AE, which I have been for the past few days, and my self-control has improved. Before the lock, I want to share something about how City of Heroes meant to me, and still does in a similar way.

 

First off, the fun of organizing a sewer mission taking us all the way to Kings Row. Surely I will miss it, I can still do this.

Having to be level 14 in order to unlock flight, my favorite transport power. I can do this on my own terms.

Having unlocking the Cape and Aura. I can do this on my own terms.

The massive grind to 50. Still is to a degree. ^

 

All these things were a feeling of accomplishment when achieved, and it may never be the same. But I have the freedom to do so now. Excluding the cape/auras, still could spend a free tailor. As much as I like to think vanilla CoX had a certain charm to it, everyone having to abide by the same rules without other features making yours obsolete, communities had to organize their own activities without features instancing it for you like /legion. All these points are based on a whim, not in fact, because you never know how something turns out until it is implemented, having an extra-server with a feature removed is like trading current-CoX(a gold-mine) for a plot of land that may or may not have diamonds. It could be a massive success, or it could also be a feature that 99% of the community didn't ask for. I am sure there are more players out there who feel the way I do, but its only an idea, an idea I am not entitled to its reality, but it is my opinion that the days before AE were more fun, and streets and LFGs were bountiful (assuming my memory isn't deceiving me). What is real, is what is now. I hope one day, a superhero Mmorpg can fill those gaps for me.

 

Looking forward to reading more threads in place of this one, and four more days if this one is still breathing, **OFF-SCREEN double-tap echoes in the alleyway**.

 

*I may or may not post the exact same thread exactly a year from now on general discussions I think this topic would be more appropriate there.

[justicebeliever]

Hey guys! Came and read the post from time to time, and enjoyed every bit of it. This thread will be locked on July the 1st, due to the taking of space of other suggestions and feedback.

 

I'd like to thank you guys for your contributions, there was a lot of discussion on the topic and off-topics that have shed some light. Maybe some other day, a newer thread will mention the same topic, and we could have all have a go on it. Take the time and discuss more about AE/DFB, and the lock will prevent this thread from necroeing back to the top so others suggestions can be made, if you feel the topic hasn't been fulfilled, I encourage you to post your own thread and start clean-slate. I've learnt a lot from all the replies, and hope to read more before I do.

 

I didn't think the thread would last this long, but I'm glad it did.

 

The idea for me, of having an extra non-AE server, is still desirable. It is a want. I don't need it, and I certainly don't want to force it upon others. The game is heavily diverse, every player is sharing the same space, every player currently has the ability to play the way they want to. I can ignore AE, which I have been for the past few days, and my self-control has improved. Before the lock, I want to share something about how City of Heroes meant to me, and still does in a similar way.

 

First off, the fun of organizing a sewer mission taking us all the way to Kings Row. Surely I will miss it, I can still do this.

Having to be level 14 in order to unlock flight, my favorite transport power. I can do this on my own terms.

Having unlocking the Cape and Aura. I can do this on my own terms.

The massive grind to 50. Still is to a degree. ^

 

All these things were a feeling of accomplishment when achieved, and it may never be the same. But I have the freedom to do so now. Excluding the cape/auras, still could spend a free tailor. As much as I like to think vanilla CoX had a certain charm to it, everyone having to abide by the same rules without other features making yours obsolete, communities had to organize their own activities without features instancing it for you like /legion. All these points are based on a whim, not in fact, because you never know how something turns out until it is implemented, having an extra-server with a feature removed is like trading current-CoX(a gold-mine) for a plot of land that may or may not have diamonds. It could be a massive success, or it could also be a feature that 99% of the community didn't ask for. I am sure there are more players out there who feel the way I do, but its only an idea, an idea I am not entitled too, but it is my opinion that the days before AE were more fun, and streets and LFGs were bountiful (assuming my memory isn't deceiving me). What is real, is what is now. I hope one day, a superhero Mmorpg can fill those gaps for me.

 

Looking forward to reading more threads in place of this one, and four more days if this one is still breathing, double tap* off-caption.

 

ToZ, you are a good egg...A gentleman and a man of good humor.

 

You posted here, got alot of opinions and crap thrown your way, and you've come back and are still posting in good spirits.  I loved your memories of CoX...I have my own as well - the Hollows, 1st Character to 50, Roleplaying with a Supergroup, and getting my first travel power (I felt like such a big boy...)

 

I wish you well, and understand your desire to lock the thread...Salutations and +1 Inf

[Hyperstrike]

I suggest and encourage you to be more respectful in the future, and hope you can see that veiled sarcasm isn't helpful.  A community is about the whole, and compromise. No one questions that pl'ing dfb, AE, or any of these things are fine. I'm perfectly ok with them.

 

And this is what I'm talking about.

 

I *was* respectful.

I simply disagree with you.  Strongly.

And you have interpreted as "disrespectful" and "sarcastic".

 

Sorry, but neither I, nor anyone else, is responsible for how YOU choose to interpret things.

Following that, neither I, nor anyone else, is obligated to allow you to use YOUR personal interpretation to bull your perspectives through, unchallenged.

 

Talking about "which AT is best?"  Yes.  You can compromise.

Talking about tweaking powersets?  Yes.  You can compromise.

Talking about major alterations to the game code, such that we talking about having to curate multiple versions of the game?  No.  We CAN'T compromise.  Because there are reality-based limits on what the dev time and the budget will allow.

Talking about impacting how others play, just because YOU define a playstyle as "bad" or "harmful"?  Especially when you can simply IGNORE that playstyle and the people participating in it?  No.  We CAN'T compromise.

The issue many have expressed, and if you want us to recognize your views as valid you should reciprocate, is how chat spam about it overwhelming all other forms of play for new players is harmful to new player retention.

 

Quite frankly, I don't care if you recognize my views as "valid".  You will or you won't.  And that's entirely YOUR problem.

If you choose to ignore "You DO NOT get to define how others play this game.", again, ENTIRELY your problem.

 

The only way your say has any actual validity is if you're paying for the server, hosting and the dev/GM time YOURSELF.

 

Until then, you simply have "your opinion".  And you know what they say about those.

 

We all want the game to have a healthy, viable long term community. To serve this, we must respect that new player experience should be engaging. If forms of play impact this negatively, that is harmful to long term game sustainability.

 

Your opinion is valid. So are ours. Ae spam in chat is harmful.

 

Then ask the devs to address it where you see the problem actually at.

 

Ask them to set up an AE channel and create rules to keep the AE-related stuff limited or off limits in various channels.

 

I've said my piece.

 

If you choose to think it rude/mean/whatever, c'est la vie.

[pattycake]

I suggest and encourage you to be more respectful in the future, and hope you can see that veiled sarcasm isn't helpful.  A community is about the whole, and compromise. No one questions that pl'ing dfb, AE, or any of these things are fine. I'm perfectly ok with them.

 

And this is what I'm talking about.

 

I *was* respectful.

I simply disagree with you.  Strongly.

And you have interpreted as "disrespectful" and "sarcastic".

 

Sorry, but neither I, nor anyone else, is responsible for how YOU choose to interpret things.

Following that, neither I, nor anyone else, is obligated to allow you to use YOUR personal interpretation to bull your perspectives through, unchallenged.

 

Talking about "which AT is best?"  Yes.  You can compromise.

Talking about tweaking powersets?  Yes.  You can compromise.

Talking about major alterations to the game code, such that we talking about having to curate multiple versions of the game?  No.  We CAN'T compromise.  Because there are reality-based limits on what the dev time and the budget will allow.

Talking about impacting how others play, just because YOU define a playstyle as "bad" or "harmful"?  Especially when you can simply IGNORE that playstyle and the people participating in it?  No.  We CAN'T compromise.

The issue many have expressed, and if you want us to recognize your views as valid you should reciprocate, is how chat spam about it overwhelming all other forms of play for new players is harmful to new player retention.

 

Quite frankly, I don't care if you recognize my views as "valid".  You will or you won't.  And that's entirely YOUR problem.

If you choose to ignore "You DO NOT get to define how others play this game.", again, ENTIRELY your problem.

 

The only way your say has any actual validity is if you're paying for the server, hosting and the dev/GM time YOURSELF.

 

Until then, you simply have "your opinion".  And you know what they say about those.

 

We all want the game to have a healthy, viable long term community. To serve this, we must respect that new player experience should be engaging. If forms of play impact this negatively, that is harmful to long term game sustainability.

 

Your opinion is valid. So are ours. Ae spam in chat is harmful.

 

Then ask the devs to address it where you see the problem actually at.

 

Ask them to set up an AE channel and create rules to keep the AE-related stuff limited or off limits in various channels.

 

I've said my piece.

 

If you choose to think it rude/mean/whatever, c'est la vie.

 

I’ve almost read 1/8 of the whole suggestions and feedback forum. I’ve also read this particular thread the most, as far as I can tell people have been recognizing opinions, it’s just difficult to read tones, if you were to read any post with an angry tone you could even convince yourself a person is raging when they could be in fact be having an intelligent conversation. And yes, you can compromise by curating content because the top 10 mmos have curating features and are proven to promote growth. The real question most of this thread has been discussing are how the effects of DFB and AE have on the community chat/experiences.. that and standard code talk. Personally I have no idea if AE DFB accounts for inexperienced players, I do know about the spamming, but I thought it was great conversation.

[_NOPE_]

Relevant:

 

[SwitchFade]

OP, glad you found merit in the responses, and proof that diversity is real so that people who live blindly can be encouraged to see...

 

Hyperstrike, it'll all be ok given time. I look forward to your contributions. I hope you will join us in the future, in the spirit of inclusion.

 

Justice, we'll said, my friend, I would +1 you again, if I could.

 

PK, always nice to see you thread-mike-drop :)

[Widower]

Please do not talk down to people who disagree with you. It tends to provoke flame wars, which we should all strive to avoid.