The slo-mo pursuit of escaping mobs

[AndrewM]

Like it says in the title. Is there a necessitating reason why our characters/toons/whatever-your-preferred-term-is make like cut-rate Steve Austins (the $6M Man) when we chase after escaping enemies? Normal easy motion until one breaks and we chase after, and all of a sudden our toon is wading hip-deep through frozen molasses. It is pretty much the only thing in the game that I find even slightly annoying, but that annoyance is predicated on the fact I can't see any good reason for it and I get bolshy about arbitrary and meaningless decisions.

[The Chairman]

Are you chasing them using the follow command? That's the only time I've seen the behavior I think you are describing. No idea why it does that. That said, I don't experience the same slow down if I give chase manually, so I recommend giving that a try.

[Coyotedancer]

The player character movement suppression is a hold-over from the Old Days... And given just how **MANY F-ING RUNNERS** the game has amongst the goon-squad, I've been asking for it to die in a fire for literal years. Even back in the retail days. 

 

Either make them subject to the same snail-in-glue effect we are... Or set us free.

 

(And no, Chairman. It's in no way limited to Follow. Movement speed suppression hits all of us when our characters are actively in combat. Try taking off after a fleeing Longbow Eagle or a Sky Raider Wing guy when they jet off across the map. That few seconds of moving in slow motion as you watch them run for the far corner of nowhere at top speed? That's what we're talking about.)

[Rudra]

46 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

The player character movement suppression is a hold-over from the Old Days... And given just how **MANY F-ING RUNNERS** the game has amongst the goon-squad, I've been asking for it to die in a fire for literal years. Even back in the retail days. 

 

Either make them subject to the same snail-in-glue effect we are... Or set us free.

 

(And no, Chairman. It's in no way limited to Follow. Movement speed suppression hits all of us when our characters are actively in combat. Try taking off after a fleeing Longbow Eagle or a Sky Raider Wing guy when they jet off across the map. That few seconds of moving in slow motion as you watch them run for the far corner of nowhere at top speed? That's what we're talking about.)

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Travel_Powers#Suppression

Provided for reference.

 

And I agree. Mobs should be affected by suppression just like players are. (Edit: The reason for suppression existing makes sense. The fact it only affects players however, doesn't make anywhere near as much sense. Especially on a defeat all or a rescue where a needed mob runs off and players lacking immobs, holds, or a ranged attack to drop the fleeing target are just SoL.)

Edited March 1 by Rudra

[Sunsette]

If you all are referring to Travel Power Suppression

 

Slotted Sprint, Slotted Combat Jumping, and Evasive Maneuvers + Hover all make you quite swift at in-combat movement and I usually incorporate one of these options or a teleport into a build specifically for these reasons. There's also a number of ways to get running or general movement speed boosts from IOs if you don't want to spend a precious slot on these things. Most of my characters can move at approximately 50-55 MPH in combat, versus a base speed of 30-ish MPH. At live launch, Fly outside of combat capped at 58 MPH, so this is more than enough to outrun most enemies. 

Edited March 3 by Sunsette

[Rudra]

58 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

If you all are referring to Travel Power Suppression

 

Slotted Sprint, Slotted Combat Jumping, and Evasive Maneuvers + Hover all make you quite swift at in-combat movement and I usually incorporate one of these options or a teleport into a build specifically for these reasons. There's also a number of ways to get running or general movement speed boosts from IOs if you don't want to spend a precious slot on these things. Most of my characters can move at approximately 50-55 MPH in combat, versus a base speed of 30-ish MPH. At live launch, Fly outside of combat capped at 58 MPH, so this is more than enough to outrun most enemies. 

A few issues with your post. Let's start with Fly. Like you said, Fly starts at 58.63 mph out of combat and caps at 87.95 mph. Once you enter combat however, regardless of whether you initiate it or the enemy does, your fly speed is reduced to 21.3 mph. (Which is why if a player wants to just fly through a mission to grab their glowie or defeat the boss, they do so by zipping past the mobs before they can react and knock the player out of normal flight speed.) As for the slotted Sprint, Combat Jumping, Hover, and Evasive Maneuvers? Enhancements in the suppressed powers do not reduce Suppression's penalties. So slotting those powers means almost nothing while you are in combat and for 4 seconds after combat ends. Out of all the travel powers, only Teleport isn't affected by Suppression.

 

The complaint is that players are affected by Suppression, for good reason, but that mobs are not. So you will see Council/5th Column wolves, Crey Tanks, random Freakshow, and other mobs turn tail and run out of slow patches even while stunned at max speed for the mob while the player is left standing there with suppressed movement. The request most people I know is for mobs to also be affected by the suppression mechanic because when a mob runs off at full speed and disappears somewhere on the map not to return for at least 5 minutes, it gets rather infuriating rather quickly. Especially when you need to defeat that mob to free the NPC or it is a defeat all and even when you pursue the mob, it is just gone seemingly nowhere to be found until it casually walks from wherever it ran back to its spawn point.

[Sunsette]

10 minutes ago, Rudra said:

As for the slotted Sprint, Combat Jumping, Hover, and Evasive Maneuvers? Enhancements in the suppressed powers do not reduce Suppression's penalties. So slotting those powers means almost nothing while you are in combat and for 4 seconds after combat ends. Out of all the travel powers, only Teleport isn't affected by Suppression.

 

This is not correct. I literally just tested this.

Kicked someone in the face with Fly while Fly + Afterburner + Evasive Maneuvers was active. 52 MPH (down from 102 MPH).

Kicked someone in the face with Hover + EM. Retained a constant 58 MPH.

 

I'm not going to do extra testing with CJ or Sprint though I don't expect them to get any special callouts. Kins used to abuse this all the time in live with Speed Boost, though.

 

Should players be affected by suppression while enemies are not? Unless enemies are going significantly above 60 MPH I'm not sure this is really a fairness issue, though I don't feel strongly about it. 

Edited March 3 by Sunsette

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Sunsette said:

 

This is not correct. I literally just tested this.

Kicked someone in the face with Fly while Fly + Afterburner + Evasive Maneuvers was active. 52 MPH (down from 102 MPH).

Kicked someone in the face with Hover + EM. Retained a constant 58 MPH.

I don't have Evasive Maneuvers on any of my characters, so I can't test it. Thank you for doing so. I sit corrected on that matter. However, Combat Jumping adds minor movement speed, so it won't help you catch fleeing mobs. Hover can't catch fleeing mobs either. Fly gets reduced to Hover's speed for the combat duration + 4 seconds. Super Speed and Speed of Sound get their movement buffs removed while in combat + 4 seconds. And you can't expect everyone to take Evasive Maneuvers for their characters since for many it does not fit for theme. So my question is, is it wrong for players to want enemy mobs to be affected by Suppression as well?

[Sunsette]

I feel it risks further trivializing the already downplayed benefits of:

• control powers
• movement speed bonuses (from support sets, IOs, and Alpha slots)
• spending power or enhancement slots for movement

I wouldn't really complain as to my personal benefit since I'd get a few build slots back on melee characters who got the speed solely for chasing. But I don't know that it'd be a good change overall.

Edited March 3 by Sunsette

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

I feel it risks further trivializing the already downplayed benefits of:

• control powers
• movement speed bonuses (from support sets, IOs, and Alpha slots)
• spending power or enhancement slots for movement

I wouldn't really complain as to my personal benefit since I'd get a few build slots left and I like to go zoomies, which is why I know about move speed; zoomies help me make the most out of ranged cones and other positional-dependent powers. But I don't know that it'd be a good change overall.

I disagree. With control powers, you can lock those mobs down and keep them from even trying to run away. (Or even fight most times.) With the suppression mechanic applied to mobs as well, you still have to chase after them, but now you have a chance of keeping up and trying to take them down as they flee. Remember, you still stop moving when you go to attack the fleeing mobs, and they just keep moving while you do so because they are fleeing. So they can still get away unless locked down by control powers, but at least it won't be so aggravating because they won't keep ignoring the players' slow patches and zipping off at Mach 38x10⁵⁹⁶. (Obvious exaggeration intended as such.)

 

(Edit: By the way? Even with set global movement bonuses, I'm always left just watching the runners disappear unless I can catch them with a hold, immob', or have a ranged attack that finishes them off.) (Edit again: And only specific Alphas improve movement. So you run into the same problem as saying "Well, Evasive Maneuvers makes it possible to keep up with them." It is basically saying that players have to build a specific way.)

 

(Edit yet again: Look at it this way. Your super speedster character loses his/her/their/its super speed because combat started, but that Skull can just turn tail and run from the super speedster character without any concern the super speedster will catch up for at least the next 4 seconds. I understand why the mechanic exists and I agree with it, but does that situation make any sense to you?)

Edited March 3 by Rudra