Arsenal / Trick proc build (finish)

[tricon]

So finish the build and I liked it a lot, a lot has changed over the levels. 

 

The early lvls Sleep Grenade was proc heavy, which was not so ideal because it does not have such a high proc chance due to its status of a pseudopet. Later one the procs did move to Flash Bang and the Superior Will set moved to Sleep. I rarely use it now. The Glue Arrow is Liquid Nitrogen (Mids has not added the slow IOs to Liquid)

 

AOE->Flash Arrow(hit debuff)-Smoke Canister (hit debuf)-Liquid Nitrogen(slow/starts doing dmg)->Disruption Arrow(res)-Acid Arrow(res/dmg)

Oil Slick Arrow/Pyro or Flash Bang followed with a Fireball.   You can do Oil before Acid, 

Single Target chain is :  Entangling Arror (if Boss+) ->Ice Arrow->Cyro Freeze Ray->Tranquilizer->Arcane Bolt (filler outside arcane power)

 

No Fighting pool , it is just not needed with all the -to hit and controll ypu have. Build is a respec for +3 with lvl shift in mind. You can switch out Rise of Phoenix for Tactics again to help in the early levels and swith out one PT Heal back to a PS Endmod. Enough endurance with Ageless Radial Ephiphany in mind. to refill it after cd. Don't need extra cc proction with debuffs, I used the Rune of Protecion as a cc break, have some break freas and in some maps you can stay a bit in the emp field.

 

 

 

Some notes. 

 

Slow procs fire more often then the dmg procs in Sleep Grenade. The dmg area from Acid Arrow is set to 8ft in the 15ft power. Have tested Mu/Leviathan and now Fire. I like the resist shield with the -to hit. You have a few good options. The enhanced slow with knockdown from Liquid is enough to keep the mobs inside the patch/kill zone. There is not much that that can run away after you hit them with all thedmg procs. First batch of regular procs (outside P2W vendor) start at lvl 10+, then 20+ and so on. The pvp procs cost a bit more.

If you run in the lower lvls low on endurance, pick up recovery power from the vendor

 

 

Some macros I used

 

Quote

/macro_image "ForceField_ForceBubble" "Protection Bubble" "powexeclocation me EMP Arrow"
/macro_image "Experimentation_ExperimentalInjection" "Healing Arrow" "powexecname Poison Gas Arrow"

/bind q "powexec_name Flash Arrow"
/bind e "powexec_location target Smoke Canister"
/bind r "powexec_location target Liquid Nitrogen"
/bind f "powexec_location target Oil Slick Arrow"
/bind z "powexec_name Acid Arrow"
/bind c "powexec_location target Disruption Arrow"

Icons can be found under cons can be found under https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uHUi6BWFTYj4wbfGBs3LjZL88Fym6B-8EwDr18YZcY8/edit#gid=0

 

Run it through normal/incarnate stuff. If you go **** you would need to change a bit . Tear Gas and Tactics are IMO needed then and I would not use Assault hybrid there

 

The set MVPs are Smoke Canister/Liquid/ Cloaking Device. Sleep Control is a bit let down. Good early on but later quite redundant, status like if only when sleep then -no fly is not helping either.  So unitl the nerv the procs, you can go really fast in clearing maps.

 

Hero Controller
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.6.6 rev. 3
──────────────────────────────

• Primary powerset: Arsenal Control
• Secondary powerset: Trick Arrow
• Pool powerset (#1): Speed
• Pool powerset (#2): Sorcery
• Pool powerset (#3): Leadership
• Pool powerset (#4): Experimentation
• Epic powerset: Fire Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Tranquilizer

• A: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 7: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 25: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 43: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing)

Level 1: Flash Arrow

• A: Siphon Insight: Accuracy/ToHit Debuff
• 43: Siphon Insight: ToHit Debuff
• 46: Siphon Insight: Chance for +ToHit

Level 2: Cryo Freeze Ray

• A: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 3: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 3: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 13: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 42: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• 43: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic)

Level 4: Sleep Grenade

• A: Superior Will of the Controller: Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage
• 5: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge
• 5: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration
• 9: Superior Will of the Controller: Control Duration/Recharge
• 40: Superior Will of the Controller: Endurance/Recharge
• 42: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance

Level 6: Hasten

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 33: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 8: Entangling Arrow

• A: Invention: Accuracy

Level 10: Ice Arrow

• A: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 11: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 11: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• 39: Gladiator's Net: Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• 40: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 40: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic)

Level 12: Cloaking Device

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 13: Kismet: Accuracy +6%

Level 14: Smoke Canister

• A: Coercive Persuasion : Confused
• 15: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge
• 15: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge/Accuracy
• 17: Coercive Persuasion : Recharge/Accuracy
• 17: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Endurance
• 25: Coercive Persuasion : Contagious Confusion

Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow

• A: Call of the Sandman: Chance of Heal Self

Level 18: Flash Bang

• A: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage
• 19: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 19: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage
• 23: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• 23: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 36: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage

Level 20: Acid Arrow

• A: Positron's Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 21: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 21: Shield Breaker: Chance for Lethal Damage
• 34: Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff
• 34: Annihilation: Chance for Res Debuff
• 36: Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Damage

Level 22: Arcane Bolt

• A: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative)
• 42: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 46: Gladiator's Javelin: Accuracy/Damage
• 46: Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 48: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 24: Disruption Arrow

• A: Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self

Level 26: Tri-Cannon

• A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Damage/Endurance
• 34: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

Level 28: Oil Slick Arrow

• A: Ragnarok: Damage
• 29: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge
• 29: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
• 33: Ragnarok: Chance for Knockdown
• 33: Ragnarok: Damage/Endurance

Level 30: EMP Arrow

• A: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Endurance
• 31: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold
• 31: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge
• 31: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge/Accuracy
• 37: Unbreakable Constraint: Recharge/Accuracy

Level 32: Mystic Flight

• A: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 35: Maneuvers

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 36: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage
• 37: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 38: Fire Ball

• A: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 39: Superior Frozen Blast: Damage/Endurance
• 39: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage
• 45: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 48: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 41: Fire Shield

• A: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• 45: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance
• 45: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist

Level 44: Rise of the Phoenix

• A: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 47: Glue Arrow

• A: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 48: Ice Mistral's Torment: Damage/Recharge
• 50: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 50: Ice Mistral's Torment: Damage/Slow
• 50: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 49: Rune of Protection

• A: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Containment

Level 1: Brawl

• (Empty)

Level 1: Sprint

• A: Invention: Run Speed

Level 2: Rest

• (Empty)

Level 1: Swift

• A: Invention: Run Speed

Level 1: Hurdle

• A: Invention: Jumping

Level 1: Health

• A: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance
• 7: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery
• 9: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 1: Stamina

• A: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
• 37: Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self

Level 47: Arcane Power

Level 32: Translocation

Level 4: Athletic Run

 

Quote

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Edited March 26 by tricon

[tricon]

This was from a test run on the Test Server with T4. Changed Sprit Ward for Mystic Flight and Consume for RotP

 

The Picture is from combatlog parser at https://www.carnifax.org/ for the build at T4 Alpha and the rest is T3. You can see how much the procs do

 

[Onlyasandwich]

14 hours ago, tricon said:

Sleep Grenade was proc heavy, which was not so ideal because it does not have such a high proc chance

 

Great feedback working with @Carnifax's excellent tool!

 

I wanted to point out something else related to Sleep Grenade that bears out with further testing.

 

You may find that Targeted aoe procs have better results, as they are associated with the burst of ranged aoe damage, rather than the patch effect of the sleep, which is less optimal. It sounds like you have done some testing of your own here, but it may warrant further focused testing for comparison. 

 

An example report of my recent session on Sleep Grenade alone:

 

 

"Burst" here at the bottom represents the total damage the actual aoe effect itself does, which is actually pretty respectable. I'm not sure if this counts containment damage or not - I don't see a separate entry for it.

 

Assuming this does indeed encompass containment, each proc is contributing ~30% extra damage overall to base (only 15% if you take containment into account). I had expected more dramatic results here, but indeed procs don't seem amazing! However, it does show us that baseline damage slotting may be pretty worthwhile, with procs to supplement. The actual damage of the power itself is surprisingly good!

 

My testing grounds were very different, and more aoe oriented. From your results, it looks like you employed much more single target into your rotation, which brings the proccy hold and its components to the forefront.

 

My top contributors were instead:

• Acid Arrow (with procs) ~76,000 
• Flash Bang (with procs) ~70,600
• Sleep Grenade (total procs and burst) - 67,199
• Fire (oil slick burning) - 30,857
• Tri-cannon - 28,357

 

My build isn't yet 50, so I can't effectively test my ST chain yet to compare. This was from roughly 24 minutes clearing a S/L farm at -1X8. Not intended to reproduce average play session, but more as an exercise to compare procs between powers.

 

Here is my own build for reference, which actually shares a very similar approach in slotting philosophy, though a few different power choices.

 

Controller (Arsenal Control - Trick Arrow).mbd

Edited March 27 by Onlyasandwich

[Carnifax]

5 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

I'm not sure if this counts containment damage or not - I don't see a separate entry for it.

It does. In terms of logging Containment just looks like another line of damage in the logs. There isn't even a "Containment" added to it, unlike Scourge or SHOCKED! so I've no way to show what % is containment damage. It all looks part of the main power in the log file. 

[tricon]

6 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

Great feedback working with @Carnifax's excellent tool!

 

I wanted to point out something else related to Sleep Grenade that bears out with further testing.

 

You may find that Targeted aoe procs have better results, as they are associated with the burst of ranged aoe damage, rather than the patch effect of the sleep, which is less optimal. It sounds like you have done some testing of your own here, but it may warrant further focused testing for comparison. 

 

An example report of my recent session on Sleep Grenade alone:

 

 

"Burst" here at the bottom represents the total damage the actual aoe effect itself does, which is actually pretty respectable. I'm not sure if this counts containment damage or not - I don't see a separate entry for it.

 

Assuming this does indeed encompass containment, each proc is contributing ~30% extra damage overall to base (only 15% if you take containment into account). I had expected more dramatic results here, but indeed procs don't seem amazing! However, it does show us that baseline damage slotting may be pretty worthwhile, with procs to supplement. The actual damage of the power itself is surprisingly good!

 

My testing grounds were very different, and more aoe oriented. From your results, it looks like you employed much more single target into your rotation, which brings the proccy hold and its components to the forefront.

 

My top contributors were instead:

• Acid Arrow (with procs) ~76,000 
• Flash Bang (with procs) ~70,600
• Sleep Grenade (total procs and burst) - 67,199
• Fire (oil slick burning) - 30,857
• Tri-cannon - 28,357

 

My build isn't yet 50, so I can't effectively test my ST chain yet to compare. This was from roughly 24 minutes clearing a S/L farm at -1X8. Not intended to reproduce average play session, but more as an exercise to compare procs between powers.

 

Here is my own build for reference, which actually shares a very similar approach in slotting philosophy, though a few different power choices.

 

Controller (Arsenal Control - Trick Arrow).mbd 42.85 kB · 4 downloads

 

I enjoed a proced Sleep Grenade at the Moonfire tf to solo kill large groups of vampire for the badge, same doing the signature arc form Dakota Berg for the Bloody Hands badge where you fight static in a single room in the mid 30s, where I run the same -1/x8 setting Later on, I was playing with the Levathan Mastery and with Water Spot the Sleep Grenade was my extra aoe dmg power. However later I thought it was redunant as I was fighting at +4/x8

 

If you look at the screenshot. The slow procs fire more then the dmg procs, the pseudopet does no dmg, so dmg procs don't work there. If you want to enhance the dmg, then go with 5 slots of Ice Mistral's with the proc and add the other slow proc Impeded Swiftness to it. About the base damage, I have not checked if the changed it, but since 2 builds or so ago Controller run with the Dominator damage number around. City of Data has a older build number and shows the correct number there: https://cod.uberguy.net/

 

To be fair with the confuse going, we could just hit Smoke Grenade and hit them with Acid Arrow to start the confuse and lower the def and watch them kill each other. In this mission from the video only the bosses would survive. It's slower but can be done.

 

Overall, the set lets you IMHO build it in some variance with other sloting options without losing to much performance. As an example I would rather use the Superior Will of the Controller Proc somewhere else, but the 6 slot bonus for the ranged def was to much to give up, but thats not set in stone.

 

The single dmg chain is some bit needed, you fight lots of elite bosses (AV) if you go through the 40/50s, alone for the Hero/Villain badges and I liked a fluid experience doing so.

 

Edited March 27 by tricon

[Hjarki]

What do those charts mean? The horizontal axis isn't labeled.

 

 

[BigPapa43]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:59 AM, tricon said:

So finish the build and I liked it a lot, a lot has changed over the levels. 

 

The early lvls Sleep Grenade was proc heavy, which was not so ideal because it does not have such a high proc chance due to its status of a pseudopet. Later one the procs did move to Flash Bang and the Superior Will set moved to Sleep. I rarely use it now. The Glue Arrow is Liquid Nitrogen (Mids has not added the slow IOs to Liquid)

 

AOE->Flash Arrow(hit debuff)-Smoke Canister (hit debuf)-Liquid Nitrogen(slow/starts doing dmg)->Disruption Arrow(res)-Acid Arrow(res/dmg)

Oil Slick Arrow/Pyro or Flash Bang followed with a Fireball.   You can do Oil before Acid, 

Single Target chain is :  Entangling Arror (if Boss+) ->Ice Arrow->Cyro Freeze Ray->Tranquilizer->Arcane Bolt (filler outside arcane power)

 

No Fighting pool , it is just not needed with all the -to hit and controll ypu have. Build is a respec for +3 with lvl shift in mind. You can switch out Rise of Phoenix for Tactics again to help in the early levels and swith out one PT Heal back to a PS Endmod. Enough endurance with Ageless Radial Ephiphany in mind. to refill it after cd. Don't need extra cc proction with debuffs, I used the Rune of Protecion as a cc break, have some break freas and in some maps you can stay a bit in the emp field.

 

 

 

Some notes. 

 

Slow procs fire more often then the dmg procs in Sleep Grenade. The dmg area from Acid Arrow is set to 8ft in the 15ft power. Have tested Mu/Leviathan and now Fire. I like the resist shield with the -to hit. You have a few good options. The enhanced slow with knockdown from Liquid is enough to keep the mobs inside the patch/kill zone. There is not much that that can run away after you hit them with all thedmg procs. First batch of regular procs (outside P2W vendor) start at lvl 10+, then 20+ and so on. The pvp procs cost a bit more.

If you run in the lower lvls low on endurance, pick up recovery power from the vendor

 

 

Some macros I used

 

 

Run it through normal/incarnate stuff. If you go **** you would need to change a bit . Tear Gas and Tactics are IMO needed then and I would not use Assault hybrid there

 

The set MVPs are Smoke Canister/Liquid/ Cloaking Device. Sleep Control is a bit let down. Good early on but later quite redundant, status like if only when sleep then -no fly is not helping either.  So unitl the nerv the procs, you can go really fast in clearing maps.

 

Hero Controller
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.6.6 rev. 3
──────────────────────────────

• Primary powerset: Arsenal Control
• Secondary powerset: Trick Arrow
• Pool powerset (#1): Speed
• Pool powerset (#2): Sorcery
• Pool powerset (#3): Leadership
• Pool powerset (#4): Experimentation
• Epic powerset: Fire Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Tranquilizer

• A: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 7: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 25: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 43: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing)

Level 1: Flash Arrow

• A: Siphon Insight: Accuracy/ToHit Debuff
• 43: Siphon Insight: ToHit Debuff
• 46: Siphon Insight: Chance for +ToHit

Level 2: Cryo Freeze Ray

• A: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 3: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 3: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 13: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 42: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• 43: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic)

Level 4: Sleep Grenade

• A: Superior Will of the Controller: Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage
• 5: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge
• 5: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration
• 9: Superior Will of the Controller: Control Duration/Recharge
• 40: Superior Will of the Controller: Endurance/Recharge
• 42: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance

Level 6: Hasten

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 33: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 8: Entangling Arrow

• A: Invention: Accuracy

Level 10: Ice Arrow

• A: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 11: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 11: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• 39: Gladiator's Net: Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• 40: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 40: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic)

Level 12: Cloaking Device

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 13: Kismet: Accuracy +6%

Level 14: Smoke Canister

• A: Coercive Persuasion : Confused
• 15: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge
• 15: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge/Accuracy
• 17: Coercive Persuasion : Recharge/Accuracy
• 17: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Endurance
• 25: Coercive Persuasion : Contagious Confusion

Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow

• A: Call of the Sandman: Chance of Heal Self

Level 18: Flash Bang

• A: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage
• 19: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 19: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage
• 23: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• 23: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 36: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage

Level 20: Acid Arrow

• A: Positron's Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 21: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 21: Shield Breaker: Chance for Lethal Damage
• 34: Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff
• 34: Annihilation: Chance for Res Debuff
• 36: Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Damage

Level 22: Arcane Bolt

• A: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative)
• 42: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 46: Gladiator's Javelin: Accuracy/Damage
• 46: Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 48: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 24: Disruption Arrow

• A: Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self

Level 26: Tri-Cannon

• A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Damage/Endurance
• 34: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

Level 28: Oil Slick Arrow

• A: Ragnarok: Damage
• 29: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge
• 29: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
• 33: Ragnarok: Chance for Knockdown
• 33: Ragnarok: Damage/Endurance

Level 30: EMP Arrow

• A: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Endurance
• 31: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold
• 31: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge
• 31: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge/Accuracy
• 37: Unbreakable Constraint: Recharge/Accuracy

Level 32: Mystic Flight

• A: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 35: Maneuvers

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 36: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage
• 37: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 38: Fire Ball

• A: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 39: Superior Frozen Blast: Damage/Endurance
• 39: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage
• 45: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 48: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 41: Fire Shield

• A: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• 45: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance
• 45: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist

Level 44: Rise of the Phoenix

• A: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 47: Glue Arrow

• A: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage
• 48: Ice Mistral's Torment: Damage/Recharge
• 50: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 50: Ice Mistral's Torment: Damage/Slow
• 50: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 49: Rune of Protection

• A: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Containment

Level 1: Brawl

• (Empty)

Level 1: Sprint

• A: Invention: Run Speed

Level 2: Rest

• (Empty)

Level 1: Swift

• A: Invention: Run Speed

Level 1: Hurdle

• A: Invention: Jumping

Level 1: Health

• A: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance
• 7: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery
• 9: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 1: Stamina

• A: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
• 37: Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self

Level 47: Arcane Power

Level 32: Translocation

Level 4: Athletic Run

 

 

 

Do you have the mids you could post for this build?

[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

What do those charts mean? The horizontal axis isn't labeled.

The pertinent field is the 7th column (first entry 36666.50). This represents total damage.

[Onlyasandwich]

6 hours ago, tricon said:

The slow procs fire more then the dmg procs, the pseudopet does no dmg, so dmg procs don't work there.

I wonder if the key here is that the pace of battle allows the slow field to actually get multiple fires off.

 

Usually patches are not the greatest for procs, as often the mobs are dead before they have the time to fulfill their proc potential through multiple pulses. 

 

In most powers, the immediate damage component is more proccable as its potential is realized up front in one go, but though it's still up front here for ranged aoe procs, the math works out poorly.

 

I'm a little lost on what proc math I would actually expect from the stats in CoD for this part of the pseudopet:

• 100 activate period
• 0 recharge
• 20 ft radius
• 1.167 animation time

 

Perhaps the 0 recharge is killing the formula here? If this part of the power were direct damage tied to the actual power recharge and not a psuedopet, it would proc amazingly well for ranged aoe.

 

In any case, I'll probably just swap to slow procs only and save the ranged aoe slots for something else. Thanks for the insight @tricon! While it's sad that the ranged aoe procs don't do the work I thought they would, shifting to slow procs gave me the room to squeeze in some much appreciated extra end support in my build, and even rounded out some ED in Sleep Grenade itself.

 

Controller (Arsenal Control - Trick Arrow).mbd

 

 

Edited March 27 by Onlyasandwich

[tricon]

@Onlyasandwich

 

The Sleep Grenade is a bit odd . I just did a very dirty quick test with a verrrry low sample size. Set at -1x8. Slotted 2 50acc and then the procs. Number six first mission

Cast 2 times Sleep Grenade at each spawn, full duration , repeat 10 times, 3 different runs. Not what I was expecting the the WoC proc...

 

Dmg Procs fired once, procs fired 32*, 23*, 25*, Slow procs fired first hit and repeated  85*, 93*, Will of Controller is a higer dpm proc but adds recharge to the power  fire first hit and repeated 77*, the recharge lowered the proc chance quite a bit. 

 

 

 

@Hjarki this screenshot has the names for the table

[Vinceq98]

Ty for the detailed report. i wish i knew how to do all this but im too dumb to start. I love number crunching and finding out the best performance of abilities based on data like this. Cheers for showing me to switch from Posi set to Ice minstral set + impeded swiftness proc in my sleep grenade. 

[Hjarki]

11 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

I'm a little lost on what proc math I would actually expect from the stats in CoD for this part of the pseudopet:

My understanding of the general system is that procs can only go off when the relevant part of the power goes off.

 

So if you slot Call of the Sandman into Sleep Grenade, you'd get a chance to proc when you activated the power (since its a beneficial effect that does not need a hostile target). The chance to proc would be very high since Sleep Grenade has a 45 sec recharge (and internal recharge would modify the chance to proc) and no area of effect (all it does is summon a pet).

 

Call of the Sandman would not proc from the persistent area effects of the Sleep Grenade. While there is a continuously re-applied Sleep field, the proc would actually heal the pseudo-pet (rather than the player) and the pseudo-pet can't be healed. I believe Overpowering Presence has the same issue - a pseudo-pet can't have a pet of its own, so the power is either explicitly blocked from proc'ing due to the ongoing field or it simply 'fizzles' when it realizes it has no proper master.

 

Damage procs from damage sets in Sleep Grenade would do nothing on activation (no hostile targets). Once the pseudo-pet was summoned, they'd get a single chance to proc based on a 10 sec recharge (unaffected by any recharge slotted into the power) and then no further chances to proc (since there is no ongoing damage component). With a 20' radius, this would translate into a 3.25 AF so 3.5 * 10 / 60 / 3.25 * 71.75 = 12.88 damage/target.

 

Damage procs from slow/sleep/control sets in Sleep Grenade would do nothing on activation (no hostile targets). Once the pseudo-pet was summoned, they'd get a chance to proc every 10 sec (since the effect is ongoing). This would translate into 3.5 * 10 / 60 / 3.25 * 71.75 * (30 / 10) = 38.63 damage/target for any target that stayed in the field the whole time, with a third of that damage occurring every 10 sec.

 

In general, any time the recharge of the actual power (rather than a containing power) is 0s, it seems to use the 10 sec system instead. This is also why people tend to comment that such 'field' powers are terrible for procs. With a conventional power, you're normally leveraging your global recharge to gain much higher ppm than you would otherwise. If you slot a 3.5 ppm proc into a power that recharges twice as fast as it should due to your global recharge, then you've actually just slotted a 7 ppm proc. With passives/auras/pseudo-pets, you're just stuck with the normal ppm because global recharge doesn't apply.

 

I don't know if any of the above specifically applies to Sleep Grenade (or the other powers in Arsenal Control) because I haven't explicitly tested them.

[Spaghetti Betty]

This is how I've been running my Ars/TA.

 

I mostly made it as a joke, but it actually is pretty fun!

 

It's a little frail but does a great job of completely blowing away general packs of mobs.

 

I dub it the PATCH GOD

 

Patch God - Controller (Arsenal Control - Trick Arrow).mbd

 

In my experience it's not worth procbombing patches (there are exceptions obviously, Burn and Blaster Glue Arrow are good examples), and Arsenal Control doesn't really seem to be an exception. Thankfully the damage on the damaging patches is still pretty high for Controllers. And Flashbang is great at deleting mobs and your teammates' eyes. I definitely wish it was easier to get ahold of ST damage!

[Onlyasandwich]

6 hours ago, Hjarki said:

is 0s

Thanks! This is the part I wasn't sure of, and would explain the inferiority of ranged AOE here. 

 

Oddly, blaster glue arrow, which @Spaghetti Betty pointed out here, has the same 0s recharge on the damage component of its psuedopet, but is actually excellent for procs. Maybe it's not as good as it seems though, and warrants parser testing itself! 

Edited March 28 by Onlyasandwich

[Hjarki]

3 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Thanks! This is the part I wasn't sure of, and would explain the inferiority of ranged AOE here. 

 

Oddly, blaster glue arrow, which @Spaghetti Betty pointed out here, has the same 0s recharge on the damage component of its psuedopet, but is actually excellent for procs. Maybe it's not as good as it seems though, and warrants parser testing itself! 

Assuming that the general principles I outlined above apply, Glue Arrow would have 3 chances to proc over the 30 sec duration for both damage and slow. With a 15' area and 2.6875 AF, this would be 71.75 * 3.5 * 10 / 60 / 2.6875 * 3 = 46.72 damage per activation (regardless of recharge slotted into the power).

 

If Glue Arrow were simply a click power that put a 30 sec duration slow on the targets, it would over-cap with about 100% chance on a 3.5 ppm. So a proc would deal 71.75 * .9 = 64.58 damage per activation as long as you kept your internal recharge under 10% or so.

Edited March 28 by Hjarki

[Spaghetti Betty]

What makes Blaster Glue Arrow such a special case is that it's both an ST power and a pseudopet, so procs fire on the target hit and for the patch that spawns. You don't necessarily proc it for the long-duration patch as much you do to nuke a target, much like Burn!

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

What makes Blaster Glue Arrow such a special case is that it's both an ST power and a pseudopet, so procs fire on the target hit and for the patch that spawns. You don't necessarily proc it for the long-duration patch as much you do to nuke a target, much like Burn!

On City of Data, all I'm seeing is a standard pseudopet-generating power. There doesn't appear to be any single target component.

[Onlyasandwich]

4 hours ago, Hjarki said:

On City of Data, all I'm seeing is a standard pseudopet-generating power. There doesn't appear to be any single target component.

 

I can confirm that in game it behaves as @Spaghetti Betty says.

 

The primary target gets a full load of procs to the face upon contact at 90% (no recharge slotted), while the patch pops any relevant procs on the 10 second pulse. 

 

Certainly not what you would expect from CoD, but there you have it!

 

Even so, Sleep Grenade's behavior seems to match what you project. All of this has been very useful in repositioning my own build.

 

I feel like this might be the final landing point for my next respec:

Controller (Arsenal Control - Trick Arrow).mbd

 

All of this makes me sort of wish they'd kept it in its original form during feedback. At first I think there was no patch/pseudopet involved - just a procable aoe that slept mobs on a relatively short cooldown. Still, carving a niche for a power almost purely on its procability is sort of silly, so this is for the best.

Edited March 29 by Onlyasandwich

[tricon]

@Vinceq98 Some have explained the data behind the procs, if you need more info, look here 

 

 

@Onlyasandwich We have several powers that behave different. Like we got "true" chains that suck with procs and "fake" chains that got a much better chance. One different I noted with Sleep Grenade is that CoD shows the "Summons a pseudopet" and Glue Arrow from TA missed it, even if the power looks a like and yet as other pointed out the procs work different.

 

Your build looks fine. Wish the would removed some of the hard crashed from the game like from Surge of Power and add animation for the weapons to it, the power itself looks cool. 

One suggestion, if you don"t slot Liquid Nitrogen and just use Glue Arrow for the slow, then why not get rid of it and switch Super Jump to Super Speed and then add Burnout for it,

 

 

[Onlyasandwich]

10 hours ago, tricon said:

Wish the would removed some of the hard crashed from the game like from Surge of Power and add animation for the weapons to it, the power itself looks cool. 

One suggestion, if you don"t slot Liquid Nitrogen and just use Glue Arrow for the slow, then why not get rid of it and switch Super Jump to Super Speed and then add Burnout for it,

 

I don't mind the crash too much in this combo! Crashes are more readily handled on sets that can stage a lot of persistent effects while the power is up. If I crash while everything is debuffed to the end of the world, I can bounce back pretty easily. I didn't realize the weapons won't animate - I guess they just sort of splort out of the gremlin I turn into? Surge is partially a mule here, but has decent enough utility in a dire situation, even with no extra slots.

 

I keep both LN and Glue in order to have additional effects to throw down at a moment's notice, and rely less on any one power being available constantly. Also it's just fun to vomit out so many patches. Part of my character's theme is having an absurd variety of munitions. : )

 

LN doesn't really need any enhancement beyond the one slot here. It has max hit chance, and the recharge is good enough considering all the other powerful effects I have to throw out, along with modest global recharge helping. Even throwing a +5 recharge IO in there only shaves off a few seconds.

Edited March 30 by Onlyasandwich

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 3/28/2024 at 2:50 PM, Spaghetti Betty said:

I dub it the PATCH GOD

 

Sorry for the unsolicited feedback, but if you wanted to eke out a touch more ST damage, I noticed you're not using Apoc %Damage proc.

You can move Unbreakable Constraint %Damage to replace something (Glad Net?) in Ice Arrow, where the proc rate would be slightly (90% vs 74%?) higher, and then put Apoc %Damage into Cryo Freeze Ray, since it already does damage.

 

An aside: with Cryo Freeze Ray's recharge so low, I feel like dropping some of the 3.5ppm procs for straight damage slotting (Apoc Dam + Apoc Dam/End) achieves more consistent damage in long fights, but I haven't been bothered to test/parse it.

[Spaghetti Betty]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:20 AM, twozerofoxtrot said:

Sorry for the unsolicited feedback, but if you wanted to eke out a touch more ST damage, I noticed you're not using Apoc %Damage proc.

You can move Unbreakable Constraint %Damage to replace something (Glad Net?) in Ice Arrow, where the proc rate would be slightly (90% vs 74%?) higher, and then put Apoc %Damage into Cryo Freeze Ray, since it already does damage.

 

An aside: with Cryo Freeze Ray's recharge so low, I feel like dropping some of the 3.5ppm procs for straight damage slotting (Apoc Dam + Apoc Dam/End) achieves more consistent damage in long fights, but I haven't been bothered to test/parse it.

I will take the unsolicited advice! Not sure how I missed slotting Apoc.

 

 

As far as the slotting itself goes, I much prefer the chunkier hit from the proc Bombing. Cryo Ray and Ice Arrow together will obliterate a good chunk of HP on a problematic mob. I'm also not much of a pylon tester and this build is centered around salting the earth.

 

Thanks!