What I wish Seismic Blast looked like (A diamond in the rough)

[Shin Magmus]

A foreword from the author...

 

     Hi there, I'm the Mr. Shin whose unofficial main is now a Seismic/Fire Blaster.  You may have seen this Magmoid creature of lava and hatred; I did put a lot of time into it.  I currently use this character to play Seismic Blast because I strongly enjoy the aesthetics and core design of the powerset, especially with the Lava texture power customization.  Unfortunately, the set has SEVERE ISSUES which prevent it from performing as well as it should.  Blasters are pretty overpowered (citation needed), and Fire Manipulation is the most damaging powerset in the game thanks to combining 2 strong "Damage Auras", well known for being part of the Fire/Fire Blaster overwhelming dominance.  I simply picked Fire Manipulation to carry the poor performance of Seismic Blast, allowing me to enjoy the character and still have decent overall performance.  This strategy worked subjectively for me... but only on Blasters.  How is Seismic Blast on Defenders, Corruptors, and Sentinels?  Those ATs have to rely much more on the powerset by itself for their damage, and the results are not good.  Seismic Blast is one of the least popular sets in the game currently, and while we can all wager guesses at the reasons, I'd like to point out a few glaring issues with the set and suggest simple fixes to them.  I'm not saying that these changes would immediately improve both the viability and popularity of Seismic Blast but... no wait, I am absolutely saying that.  

 

 

Test Data Results

This table showcases significantly worse performance and randomness in Seismic Blast vs Psychic Blast, sets chosen to compare due to their similar slotting options and the fact that Psychic Blast was recently buffed by the devs: making it a useful target metric for balance.

 

 

Video Example Evidence

Seismic Shockwaves KD is suppressed for 10s any time the target is knocked down by any source:

 

 

Upthrust CD is never longer than 6s in the worst-case scenario on my endgame build, even with 0 Recharge slotted into the power and 5 procs slotted instead:

 

 

Demonstration of the disruptive trolling potential of Meteor in general, but especially when enhanced with KB by a nasty player, "True Stuck" enemy in cave wall at 1:14:

 

 

Comparison: Pain/Psychic Blast Defender (near identical build) test on GalaxyBrain's Office AE Map 

Time:  6:26

 

 

Comparison: Pain/Seismic Blast Defender (near identical build) test on GalaxyBrain's Office AE Map 

Time:  7:25

 

 

[More Video Evidence may be added here in the future]

 

 

Fixed Seismic Blast

By: Shin_Rekkoha (Shin Magmus)

 

 

Rebalance Seismic Shockwaves

     No matter how you slice it, Seismic Blast is a builder/spender set.  Both Stalagmite and to a lesser extent Rock Shards in their current form are powers that are not worth using without Seismic Shockwaves, hereafter referred to as "SS" or I will go insane.  When a Seismic player gets SS, then immediately spend it on the chance to use either A: a single target attacks slightly better than Blaze... or B: a decent secondary AoE that's not as good as Upthrust.  Immediately after spending SS, the player forfeits the chance to spend it on the choice they didn't pick.  Because of this mechanic having "opportunity cost" and the powers generally not being worth using without SS, many players commonly skip Rock Shards since they always spend SS on Enhanced Stalagmite instead... because it hits like a truck.  If you can't use SS on both, one simply almost never gets used in practice.  So with all that said, and the general understanding that players will be instantly spending SS in normal gameplay... that means that a player who wants to chill and sit on their SS, keeping it for the knockdown effect... should get some sort of useful reward right?  Right?

 

     You're giving up a lot of damage by not instantly spending SS on your Spenders, and you're also wasting all the enhancements you have slotted in those powers by not using them during the time you either don't have SS, or are sitting on SS to use it for the Knockdown.  So what does SS give you in this case?  It gives you a shitty Knockdown with a lockout period of 10s, that dynamically updates and re-locks-out any time the target is knocked down from any source.  Seismic Shockwaves is REPREHENSIBLY, EMBARASSINGLY, DISGUSTINGLY WEAK by any reasonable metric.  It's mind-blowing to me that the effect even exists in the game as it does; common gameplay situations will often knock down a target so frequently that Seismic Shockwaves will never do anything because enemies will never achieve the required condition for the full 10 seconds.  Thank goodness most players will be spending SS instantly, so that they are spared the knowledge of seeing how pathetic it really is.

 

- Tick Rate: 0.2 (5 checks per second)

- Current: 5% chance for KD / LOCK OUT: disabled IF: Target Sleeping, disabled IF: Target time-since-knocked less than or equal to 10s

- New: 4% chance for KD / LOCK OUT: disabled IF: Target Sleeping, second condition deleted

 

 

Rebalance Seismic Force

     Seismic Force consuming SS is detrimental in almost all cases and never actually helpful to the player.  If I carelessly try to use my "Aim" power: Seismic Force, I will accidentally waste my SS and be robbed of the chance to use Enhanced Stalagmite.  THIS FEELS TERRIBLE WHEN IT HAPPENS, and has led several players (including myself), to build the muscle memory to habitually jump every time we use Seismic Force.  Being grounded is a requirement for Seismic Blast Enhanced effects, so leaving the ground temporarily disables the ability to consume SS and get those effects.  This short "bunny hop" ensures that you can never accidentally waste SS, and the mechanic reactivates quickly after touching the ground again.  Seismic Force's benefit when it wastes SS is also insultingly bad: being nothing but a one-time instant reduction in the CDs of all actively recharging powers.  My slowest recharging power is Upthrust, which has a maximum CD in worst-case scenarios of only 6s (see video above for evidence).  In theory, the CD reduction effect of Seismic Force could be used to increase the frequency of a Meteor, but that's its only real benefit and Meteor sucks.  My main live character is a Seismic/Fire Blaster who skipped Meteor, so Seismic Force using up my SS is only detrimental.  Hopefully you can see the problem with Seismic Force based on the picture I've painted.

 

- Current: Seismic Force consumes SS to reduce the CDs of all actively recharging Seismic Blast powers

- New: Seismic Force instantly grants SS, allowing the player to use 2 Enhanced powers back-to-back by using Seismic Force in between them

 

 

Rebalance Meteor

     There's only one way I can honestly write this section: Meteor is a failure of common sense when it comes to game design and balance.  Most Nukes in the game have a secondary effect that is purely beneficial, varying by individual powerset.  Inferno in Fire Blast has no secondary effect (such as a debuff or mez) so it deals more damage in exchange.  These are established, comparative, logical rules between the powersets.  I will call the majority of Nukes "Standard Nukes": powers which do the same damage as each other but less than Inferno.  Standard Nukes are very good!  Atomic Blast is a reliable Hold and accepts Hold procs.  Dreadful Wail is a reliable Stun that also inflicts -Res.  Blackstar eviscerates enemy Tohit chances for a whopping 30s.  The weakest of the bunch is Nova, but Energy Blast has its own list of Issues and Nova isn't out of place in the set.  All of these powers deal the same damage as Meteor.  So what does Meteor do?

 

- Meteor is cast on a huge delay, landing roughly 5s after being cast.  All other Standard Nukes deal their damage instantly (at the end of their cast animation).

- Meteor deals Smashing/Fire damage, but only 25% of it is Fire damage.  This means Meteor deals 75% of its damage as one of the most resisted damage types in the game: worse than all other Standard Nukes.

- Meteor does not have any beneficial secondary effect, unlike all other Standard Nukes.

- Meteor causes massive Mag Knockback as a detrimental secondary effect, but upward using a "new knock vector system" added by the devs.  This causes Meteor to throw enemies higher and farther, over short walls that would normally stop Knockback and up into the ceilings and out of bounds on cave maps.

 

   In exchange for these weaknesses, someone decided that Meteor should only deal the same damage as all other Standard Nukes; This doesn't make any sense at all.  Of all the things in Seismic Blast that need addressing, Meteor sits at the very top of the list.  We can never know how or why such a bafflingly bad power is the capstone of Seismic Blast, sitting unmatched in a tier that can only be described as: "Nova, but the Knockback is even worse, and it deals worse damage types, and it has a huge delay before it even hits which can cause you to waste the power."  Meteor is simply the worst nuke in the game.

 

- Current: Meteor is REALLY BAD

- New: Meteor is now affected by SS, separated into Meteor and Enhanced Meteor: both versions of the power deal increased damage relative to current version.  When used without SS, Meteor will instantly grant the user 6 stacks of Seismic Pressure (3x the rate of regular attacks) and only deals Knockdown.  When used with SS, Enhanced Meteor will consume the effect but deal increased damage and have the Knockdown replaced with the current massive Knockback.  This allows beanbags players who enjoy the current version of Meteor to retain access to the KB, enabling player choice and hurting no one.  The powers are broken down below:

 

New Meteor

Damage ratio changed from 75%/25% to 50%/50% Smashing and Fire

Damage increased by 20% (1.20x current Meteor damage)

Knockback changed to Knockdown (100% chance)

Grants the user 6 stacks of Seismic Pressure (granted on cast, not on Meteor landing)

 

Enhanced New Meteor

Damage ratio changed from 75%/25% to 50%/50% Smashing and Fire

Damage increase by 25% over non-Enhanced version (1.50x current Meteor damage)

Inflicts massive vectored Knockback, unchanged from current (can still slot KBtoKD IOs)

Consumes SS and ends the Shockwaves

 

 

Major DPA buff to Entomb

     Even outside of the more important and impactful fixes above, the DPA of Seismic Blast powers as a whole is undertuned.  The Powers Team very clearly used "The Formula" to calculate Encase (T1) and Shatter (T2) DPA, to make both of these powers operate at the mathematical baseline standard of "pathetic and weak" alongside T1 and T2 attacks in Energy Blast, Rad Blast, etc.  A skilled player will view these powers as not to be used at lv50 except as filler: only when you have nothing else available to use.  This design philosophy is consistent with some other powersets, even if it isn't much fun for the player.  However, Entomb (T4 power, "T3 Blast") deals significantly less damage than it should and actually has lower DPA than Shatter.  Entomb should have its DPA buffed by 65% via a combination of damage buffs and animation time reduction, bringing its performance up closer to the level of powers such as Freeze Ray, Bitter Ice Blast, Telekinetic Blast, and Blaze.  After this buff, Entomb would have 79% of the DPA of Bitter Ice Blast as an example.  This change would cause Seismic Blast to actually have 2 good always-available single target attacks: Entomb and Tombstone (The QuickSnipe).  Remember, Seismic Blast characters cannot use Enhanced Stalagmite very often: often only getting SS once every 4-5 attacks.  Seismic Blast is a Builder/Spender set, and you have to use Builders to be able to get to the Spenders; if too many of the Builder powers suck, then the entire set falls apart both in performance and in fun factor.  The set currently only has one good single target attack to use outside of Enhanced Stalagmite, and with this suggested buff it would have 2.  This buff might seem extreme from an outside perspective, but it also accurately portrays just how weak Seismic Blast currently is.

 

 

Conclusion

     That's it, that's my suggested list of changes to fix Seismic Blast.  In summary, these changes were: rebalance Seismic Shockwaves, rebalance Seismic Force (remove SS interaction), rebalance Meteor (add SS interaction), and rebalance Encase by massively increasing its damage (all other powers in the set are unchanged).  I've reasoned that these changes make the set simultaneously perform better and feel better to play: both factors that would increase its popularity.  A huge part of my motivation for this post is my time playing Seismic Blast for myself, and dealing with its issues in my own gameplay experience.  As always, I appreciate your opinions and feedback on these posts.  Look forward to the set I cover next month!

 

Edited May 24 by Shin Magmus
Added more videos based on extensive testing and building, providing evidence per Player-1's request. Also fixed spelling errors.

[AmrasNotHere]

Feels fine to me

 

This message was edited by [redacted]

[Saiyajinzoningen]

omae wa mou shindeiru!

JK

lots to unpack here

 

For me, I don't play seismic shockwave is its too visually noisy.

I couldn't figure out the mechanics because I can barely see what is happening.

KD has a cooldown from all sources iirc its not just this set

Meteor is not the only T9 with a delay, see arrows for more information

Use a knockback to Knockdown IO in powers you don't want KB.

 

personally id like less......um visual effects for this set

maybe a sand attack of some sort

Id prefer if meteor were a volcano perhaps

 

 

[Player2]

13 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

Rebalanced Seismic Shockwaves

     No matter how you slice it, Seismic Blast is a builder/spender set.  Both Stalagmite and to a lesser extent Rock Shards in their current form are powers that are not worth using without Seismic Shockwaves, hereafter referred to as "SS" or I will go insane.

 

I cannot support or condone this suggestion because of the confusing reference to Super Strength... or Super Speed... or the Schutzstaffel.

 

I dislike abbreviations.

[Shin Magmus]

2 minutes ago, Player2 said:

I cannot support or condone this suggestion because of the confusing reference to Super Strength... or Super Speed... or the Schutzstaffel.

 

I dislike abbreviations.

That's fair, have a nice day.

[CrusaderDroid]

I guess my issue is that even with the proposed changes, this just leaves Seismic Blast in a rather generic spot. Seismic Blast's secondary effects of choice are generally the dull -def and the occasional -fly, neither of which are huge deals. I think a more comprehensive fix would give at least something unique and cool to the set on its effects beyond just damage.

 

That doesn't make these changes bad. They're sorely needed IMO - you can carry the meh-tier rider effects with good numbers, but these powers don't have good numbers. I think this is a great first step to get Seismic Blast out of the bottom. +1.

[Shin Magmus]

The devs already believe that having -fly on most attacks, and the mechanic required being grounded, is unique enough.  Also most of the attacks that do -fly also do -jump height, which is extremely unique by Ranged Attack set standards and forces targets hit to stay grounded with you.  Whether the players feel the same way... probably will never matter to the devs.  Love it or hate it, that's the set's identity.

 

Lastly while minor -Def might be "dull", it's also literally top-tier because it adds 2x dmg procs and 1x -res proc option to an attack.  Any set that has a random -Def debuff added to it jumps up in objective power when you're talking about minmaxed builds.  That's exactly why Blaster Fire Sword suddenly being able to slot Achilles Heel -Res proc in the patch where they buffed Fire Melee, was the mandatory one-per-major-update stealthbuff to Fire/Fire Blasters.

[CrusaderDroid]

16 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

Lastly while minor -Def might be "dull", it's also literally top-tier because it adds 2x dmg procs and 1x -res proc option to an attack. 

Derp, am bad and forgot this. Disregard me and take the +1 without reservation.

[srmalloy]

18 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Meteor is not the only T9 with a delay, see arrows for more information

Rain of Arrows used to be even worse; the HC staff reduced the delay on it to where it's actually useful on teams -- back on Live, my TA/Arch Defender would perenially be annoyed by setting up Rain of Arrows, firing it off, and in the time between shooting and the arrival of the arrows, the spawn I was shooting at would casually wander out of the beaten zone, wasting the attack completely.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

48 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Rain of Arrows used to be even worse; the HC staff reduced the delay on it to where it's actually useful on teams -- back on Live, my TA/Arch Defender would perenially be annoyed by setting up Rain of Arrows, firing it off, and in the time between shooting and the arrival of the arrows, the spawn I was shooting at would casually wander out of the beaten zone, wasting the attack completely.

 that sounds awful 😞

 

[Shin Magmus]

The Payoff for landing a slow, delayed AoE should obviously be superior damage compared to regular AoE attacks without such a weakness.  RoA and Meteor can exist, but they need numbers to make them worth existing. 

[Player-1]

Hello Shin Magmus,

 

While I appreciate the effort of this write up, the colorful language describing the problems does not give us much to work with. Do you have any direct comparison to other Blast powersets to show exactly why Seismic is underperforming?

[Shin Magmus]

     For direct comparisons, do you want something as simple and linear as a Pylon test where ATs can only use their Ranged Attack set?  I can go ahead and make some builds on the Beta server and have the strong sets use their Blaze/BiB/TK Thrust 3x as often as Seismic Blast is able to use Enhanced Stalagmite, if video evidence is what you're talking about.  In general, my experience is from playing Seismic Blast compared to playing... well Fire and Ice Blast really.  But a lot of the experience is technically anecdotal but also multiplied by so many encounters playing with other people using the set.  So I've seen time and time again: people casting Meteor without KBtoKD slotted (yeeting enemies directly through cave map ceilings and out of bounds), and even people in the teams asking the Seismic Blast user to "please stop using that power."  Or I've been crusing along, queuing up Seismic Force only to realize that I just procced Seismic Shockwaves, then accidentally wasting the buff that I would've much rather spent on Enhanced Stalagmite.  I mentioned that in the write-up but I learned the bunnyhop strategy from someone else in-game, who has similar issues with Seismic Blast and who had developed the counterplay to accidentally wasting Seismic Shockwaves.

 

     Some of my points are already direct comparisons though, with numbers cited; I directly compare the effects of Meteor to the effects of several Standard Nukes (i.e. not Full auto, Hail of Bullets, etc), and it just comes out worse than every single directly comparable power.  Those Nukes all share the same base dmg anyways and are clearly all fine with strong beneficial secondary effects.  I don't understand why some of these Seismic Blast powers have the numbers that they do.  When you do side-by-side comparisons, it is genuinely confusing that Meteor exists as it does currently.  I cannot see the reasoning or theory behind why something that is objectively going to be more difficult to land (and easier to waste) in combat would only deal the same base dmg as an instant hit Psychic Wail that has a 100% chance for a mag3 Stun, and doesn't send enemies flying away.

Edited May 1 by Shin Magmus
Further explained direct comparisons with Meteor

[FupDup]

The only argument I have against Meteor gaining bonus damage is that Sentinels would unfortunately be exempt from it due to how the devs chose to design Sent nukes (always equal base damage to each other no matter what). Other features like letting it land faster would help all 4 applicable ATs. 

 

Or I guess the devs could make a target cap exception for Meteor on Sents similar to how Full Auto and Rain of Arrows both use the Blaster caps still. Or perhaps handle it as DoT since those seem to be allowed to go over the "normalized" base damage values (like in Overcharge for example). 

Edited April 30 by FupDup

[Player-1]

3 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

     For direct comparisons, do you want something as simple and linear as a Pylon test where ATs can only use their Ranged Attack set?  I can go ahead and make some builds on the Beta server and have the strong sets use their Blaze/BiB/TK Thrust 3x as often as Seismic Blast is able to use Enhanced Stalagmite, if video evidence is what you're talking about.  In general, my experience is from playing Seismic Blast compared to playing... well Fire and Ice Blast really.  But a lot of the experience is technically anecdotal but also multiplied by so many encounters playing with other people using the set.  So I've seen time and time again: people casting Meteor without KBtoKD slotted (yeeting enemies directly through cave map ceilings and out of bounds), and even people in the teams asking the Seismic Blast user to "please stop using that power."  Or I've been crusing along, queuing up Seismic Force only to realize that I just procced Seismic Shockwaves, then accidentally wasting the buff that I would've much rather spent on Enhanced Stalagmite.  I mentioned that in the write-up but I learned the bunnyhop strategy from someone else in-game, who has similar issues with Seismic Blast and who had developed the counterplay to accidentally wasting Seismic Shockwaves.

 

     Some of my points are already direct comparisons though, with numbers cited; I directly compare the effects of Meteor to the effects of several Standard Nukes (i.e. not Full auto, Hail of Bullets, etc), and it just comes out worse than every single directly comparable power.  Those powers all share the same bae dmgI don't understand why some of these Seismic Blast powers have the numbers that they do.  When you do side-by-side comparisons, it is genuinely confusing that Meteor exists as it does currently.  I cannot see the reasoning or theory behind why something that is objectively going to be more difficult to land (and easier to waste) in combat would only deal the same base dmg as an instant hit Psychic Wail that has a 100% chance for a mag3 Stun, and doesn't send enemies flying away.

 

There are definitely points to consider that do not need hard evidence, such as severe knockback in certain maps having unintended side effects that we may look into in general. However, we generally compare powersets as a whole to one another as opposed to power to power, so while a power may be different compared to others in their powerset category it may contribute to the kit in a meaningful way.

 

Something like pylon takedowns on a fire/fire, ice/fire, seismic/fire, and say a dual pistol/fire and dark/fire may give a good baseline as to where it may fall for single target. Likewise running a mission with the same builds to show clear speed differences will show AoE potential. These sort of results help us gauge what specifically to change if need be.

[Starhawk32]

I love Seismic but never choose Upthrust because it covers the entire screen for me and team mates

[Shin Magmus]

5 hours ago, FupDup said:

The only argument I have against Meteor gaining bonus damage is that Sentinels would unfortunately be exempt from it due to how the devs chose to design Sent nukes (always equal base damage to each other no matter what)...

     I don't want to go too far into this as a side topic, but Sentinels are very unfortunate to be a victim of this bizarre design rule: and you also noted how powers like Full Auto and Rain of Arrows have to be changed on Sentinels to compensate.  My purposed fixes to bring Seismic Blast up to par, mostly treat it as a regular set and disregard Sentinels because there's no fixing them. 

 

     We are post-buff/rework on Sentinels but they still underperform, still have that weird Nuke rule, still have intentional nerf powers like Chilling Ray, and still have no actual role on teams.  It's safe to assume that the devs are happy with this level of Sent performance (since they chose not to address these things while making sweeping changes to the AT), so I've given up hope on Sentinels ever getting improved and just don't play them.  It's hard to care about them anymore, sorry.

[AmrasNotHere]

22 hours ago, Player-1 said:

While I appreciate the effort of this write up, the colorful language describing the problems does not give us much to work with. Do you have any direct comparison to other Blast powersets to show exactly why Seismic is underperforming?

I personally feel like seismic could use a passover increase on its DPA. The snipe and the boosted stalagmites are nice (which stalagmites suffers from having to build SS to even use) but the rest of it feels like it needs some animation time touch up.

 

Just because Stalagmites has the potential for better damage feels like the reasoning behind the lower damage from the rest of the set. The problem that gets overlooked is having to use 5 attacks from seismic just to get the boosted stalagmites, reducing your potential damage output from seismic if you fill in with lets say envenomed daggers or dominate

 

At the very least entomb deserves better damage as well as the T1 & T2 to compensate for the need to include seismic specific attacks for the bonus of using boosted stalagmites. Yes it's outside of the sacred damage formula but following the formula to the T is as some say "bad design". I would think a set that is grounded by its playstyle requirements would have better potential (at the very least on the ground) than 2 out of 3 of its main competitors (rad & energy, water beats all 3 of these sets when you compare the attack chains, overall damage output, and additional utility). It would be a great start, and also give me hope for future attention on energy blast. It would also make the decision to pick seismic over water feel better for those who build characters outside of theme.

[Shin Magmus]

   Yeah I didn't even mention that Seismic Blast is locked out of most of its effectiveness if you ever have to leave the ground, whether you like Hoverblasting or because you actually need to do so for the content (like Seed of Hamidon).  I mentioned in passing jumping to temporarily disable Seismic Shockwaves, but didn't bring up the weakness that you can't even get the effect ever if you're not grounded.  Thanks for bringing that up Amra.  The top-tier Blast sets that currently outperform Seismic Blast handily, also do not have this ground-only weakness: which doesn't make much sense from a game design standpoint again.  Things with weaknesses or limitations are generally supposed to have a strength in exchange, in order to balance out having the weakness in the first place.

[KittyEater88]

My $.02: Seismic Blast has so much potential but just falls too short due to the limiting nature of the sets mechanics, and a few powers heavily weighing the set back. While I understand not every set is Fire/Ice, these two are so far ahead that it is hard to not be a bit resentful of the ways many of us work to find creative ways to make underutilized sets like Seismic a fun experience. Even the mechanical and balance issues aside, Seismic has such a wonderful theme that I would expect to see it played more commonly in-game...but it's just not. On the contrary, when I do see someone in a group with this set I honestly pray they will not use the problem power. This is not a post to tear down devs, it is a post from a player who cares enough about the work that has been done to keep us coming back. Seismic really doesn't need much to make slingin' rocks more fun.

 

Rebalance Seismic Shockwaves

As the video above shows, this secondary effect is really weird sometimes and as such, I completely ignore the knockback effect. Next, you have the build/spend nature of the set. If you are not on the ground, you do not earn SS stacks. If you accidentally leave the ground, you do not gain stacks, or expend them. Example being some streets where there a little curb, or a dip on the floor of a cave map, or maybe you have Super Speed/Speed Boost and slingshot unintentionally. This is super frustrating to play around because the grounded requirement takes away many movement choices. I'd be okay with that if the restrictions weren't so heavy handed. You already need about 5 attacks, all of which must be from within the set, to build up to Enhanced Stalagmite. Skipping over terrain by accident or chasing a runner that lept over an object out of line of sight is immersion breaking and makes me want to kil skulz.

 

Entomb:

This in every way is a worse version of Power Burst. It is slower and has a longer cooldown but does the same damage. Our good ol' boy Bitter Ice Blast does more damage with just one more second CD and does it almost a second faster. Will Domination is also comparable and recently buffed, so serves as an example that folks are listening and open to some changes. Entomb in it's current state is a skip, leaving Tombstone as your bread & butter, while you stay grounded and play the build SS game to use Stalagmite.

 

Rebalance Seismic Force:

An Aim power that you have to either cheese by jumping to not waste your SS stacks, or just not use. This one is odd to me because Seismic is not the only Build/Spend powerset out there but is the only one that has negative consequences of your power choices. Water Blast's Tidal Forces is a better example of this, as well as Titan Weapons Build Momentum. Both of these sets encourage you to continue 'building and spending'. I should not be punished for using this power, nor should I have to leave the ground to avoid a penalty, which defeats the purpose of the theme and design of the set. I don't need a cooldown reduction, just either grant me stacks of SS or prevent Seismic Force from consuming stacks.

 

Rebalance Meteor:

This is the one that makes me leave teams. As it stands, the knockback effect is such a detriment that I have had to bail on Task Forces because mobs were plastered through the wall on a kill all and that ended our run. Yes, Nova and other powers can also do this but Meteor practically guarantees my session with that group is going to be frustrating. Additionally, Metor is so hard to pull off. If you have the abilities and coordination to keep mobs in the landing area long enough to hit them, it is equally likely they are already defeated. Ever had one of those CoT Bosses cast this and you've already moved on and almost forgotten you were almost in danger? This power in it's current state will always be skipped because it is a liability and not practical to use.

[AmrasNotHere]

Bump

[Shin Magmus]

On 4/30/2024 at 10:17 PM, Player-1 said:

Hello Shin Magmus,

 

While I appreciate the effort of this write up, the colorful language describing the problems does not give us much to work with. Do you have any direct comparison to other Blast powersets to show exactly why Seismic is underperforming?

Player-1, I've spent significant time on these builds and this testing to get you data that shows Seismic Blast underperforming... not relative to the best sets in the game, but relative to Psychic Blast.  I picked this exact comparison because of the below reasons:

 

1 - Both Seismic Blast and Psychic Blast have 1 TAoE and 1 Cone, and the TAoEs both knockdown(up) allowing the same sets.

 

2 - Psychic Blast is explicitly not Fire or Ice Blast, which are the best sets in the game and are apparently viewed as outliers by some of the devs.

 

3 - This is the most important reason: Psychic Blast was very recently buffed and adjusted.  This means that Psychic Blast has been brought up to a higher power level "viewed as acceptable" by the devs.  I am comparing these 2 sets in good faith.

 

I did runs on the test server on GalaxyBrain's Office AE Map, on +3 / x8 (because +4 is kinda hard for most solo Defenders if we're being honest), and did multiple runs on both characters, selecting my personal best for each.  The builds are Pain/Psychic and Pain/Seismic, and they are nearly identical to each other on purpose.  I do not use attacks outside of the Blast sets in order to keep the comparison fair, although I do buff myself with Spirit Drain and debuff with Anguishing Cry.  I also specifically avoid using Judgment or Lore powers, because they add large influxes of flat damage that partially equalizes performance across all ATs and powersets.  I don't want to test how well a build is carried by Pyronic Judgment and Banished Pantheon pets; I want to test the merits of these 2 Blast sets against each other.  All that said, I do use Red and Purple insps but in equal measure and with the same starting insps and drop rules.  I also have all 3 START vendor "Amplifier" buffs active, but no other external buffs.  This stuff is mostly so I can function and not die.

 

I personally think both of these runs are pretty good too, having cut my times down a lot over the course of many attempts on each character.

 

Psychic Blast:  6:26

 

 

Seismic Blast:  7:25  (15.2% slower)

 

 

Now that I've done the legwork making these characters, I can produce more tests and more data if you want to see just how much Seismic Blast is underperforming.  You just let me know what I need to provide, in order to get this set the buffs it deserves.  I stand by my points in my original post, and I've edited it to add these videos up top.

Edited May 13 by Shin Magmus
Clarified exactly how much slower Seismic Blast is...

[AmrasNotHere]

Wow!

 

The amount of time it takes to get this set up to test is underappreciated. Picking Psy as its competitor was a pretty solid choice as well.

I think the only question I have here is, did meteor land by the end of the video?

 

Seriously, well done Shin.... Also nice choice of music lol it made the 16 minutes of vod review go by quickly.

[Shin Magmus]

11 minutes ago, AmrasNotHere said:

...

I think the only question I have here is, did meteor land by the end of the video?

...

Fortunately, when you're soloing you have all the time in the world to set up Meteor and ensure it hits your targets.  Now on teams... good luck buddy.  Even if the enemies aren't killed before Meteor Lands, who's to say your teammates didn't use KB, Repel, or Fold Space and forced enemies to move out of Meteor's area?

[Player-1]

17 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

Player-1, I've spent significant time on these builds and this testing to get you data that shows Seismic Blast underperforming... not relative to the best sets in the game, but relative to Psychic Blast.  I picked this exact comparison because of the below reasons:

 

1 - Both Seismic Blast and Psychic Blast have 1 TAoE and 1 Cone, and the TAoEs both knockdown(up) allowing the same sets.

 

2 - Psychic Blast is explicitly not Fire or Ice Blast, which are the best sets in the game and are apparently viewed as outliers by some of the devs.

 

3 - This is the most important reason: Psychic Blast was very recently buffed and adjusted.  This means that Psychic Blast has been brought up to a higher power level "viewed as acceptable" by the devs.  I am comparing these 2 sets in good faith.

 

I did runs on the test server on GalaxyBrain's Office AE Map, on +3 / x8 (because +4 is kinda hard for most solo Defenders if we're being honest), and did multiple runs on both characters, selecting my personal best for each.  The builds are Pain/Psychic and Pain/Seismic, and they are nearly identical to each other on purpose.  I do not use attacks outside of the Blast sets in order to keep the comparison fair, although I do buff myself with Spirit Drain and debuff with Anguishing Cry.  I also specifically avoid using Judgment or Lore powers, because they add large influxes of flat damage that partially equalizes performance across all ATs and powersets.  I don't want to test how well a build is carried by Pyronic Judgment and Banished Pantheon pets; I want to test the merits of these 2 Blast sets against each other.  All that said, I do use Red and Purple insps but in equal measure and with the same starting insps and drop rules.  I also have all 3 START vendor "Amplifier" buffs active, but no other external buffs.  This stuff is mostly so I can function and not die.

 

I personally think both of these runs are pretty good too, having cut my times down a lot over the course of many attempts on each character.

 

Psychic Blast:  6:26

 

 

Seismic Blast:  7:25  (15.2% slower)

 

 

Now that I've done the legwork making these characters, I can produce more tests and more data if you want to see just how much Seismic Blast is underperforming.  You just let me know what I need to provide, in order to get this set the buffs it deserves.  I stand by my points in my original post, and I've edited it to add these videos up top.

 

 

Hello Shin,

 

This is a great result! However, comparing the best run of A to the best run of B does not paint the whole picture. One thing that stood out between the two videos is that the Psychic Blast run had 4 spawns that did not have any bosses, while Seismic Blast's run had at least 1 boss per spawn. This along with variations on procs going off and so on can lead to variations on the same powerset being ran let alone different powersets being run against each other.

 

I like the methodology of comparing Seismic Blast to another blast powerset with the same layout. While there doesn't necessarily need to be a video of each run, having a few more run times for both powersets to compare the average clear times would show a more accurate representation of both.