Captain America: Brave New World

[battlewraith]

5 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

I think that people want to see flawed people do amazingly heroic things. 

 

The jokes, special effects, and fan service add to that (perhaps), but without the underlying story of someone overcoming great adversity for the greater good, the jokes, FX, and Easter eggs alone can't make a good movie, despite what Uwe Boll and Michael Bay may think.  😁

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_film_directors

 

Michael Bay is #4 on the list.  If Michael Bay thinks he's making good movies, and he's basing that on earnings, then he's probably more credible than people posting in this thread. Or, you have to say that box office doesn't really reflect quality. Or that what constitutes a good movie is largely subjective and different audiences have different perspectives. 

[Excraft]

28 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

I think that people want to see flawed people do amazingly heroic things. 

 

The jokes, special effects, and fan service add to that (perhaps), but without the underlying story of someone overcoming great adversity for the greater good, the jokes, FX, and Easter eggs alone can't make a good movie, despite what Uwe Boll and Michael Bay may think.  😁

 

There's been a couple of people who've complained that this thread has gone off the original topic, so perhaps we can get back to discussing CA: BNW?   What makes a good movie is an interesting topic and deserves its own thread I think.

[Troo]

Grosses

Domestic (48.2%)
$166,130,763

International (51.8%)
$178,401,643

Worldwide
$344,532,406

 

Not bad for a reboot crammed with so much new material/concepts that it is a bit of a blur. Nice reset for Thunderbolts and potentially the next projects.

I was entertained. Sure I was hoping it would be even better but the biggest let down is how much a drink and popcorn costs which is more likely to lead me to watch more things at home.

 

Edited Thursday at 05:37 PM by Troo

[TTRPGWhiz]

3 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

I guess my question to you in other posts were removed, so I'll ask again - did you see Captain America:  Brave New World?  What did you think of it?  What did you like about it?  What did you not like?  What did you think of the characterizations of the Leader and Red Hulk?  Comic accurate or too far divergent from the source material?

I haven’t seen it.

[Troo]

Spoiler

We share the same world, don't we? This world you would die to save. It's coming. I've seen it in the probabilities, seen it plain as day. All you heroes protecting this world. Do you think you're the only ones? Do you think this is the only world? We'll see what happens when you have to protect this place... from the others.

 

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Yeah it's Shadenfreude. It's understandable, but it's a bad look.

 

I'd rather look bad than lie.

 

No, I don't think I should mind my own business, either.  Their mistakes are public matters, I'm a member of the public, I'm going to point and laugh.

 

3 hours ago, battlewraith said:

The people that will suffer are the workers. Artists, animators, gaffers, costumers, lighting people, crew that build sets and props and so on. They will be looking for another job and continuing to struggle to make ends meet. 

 

That's... not how the film industry works.  A lot of the crew are independent contractors, either part of a company which provides a specific service (set design, audio engineering, cinematography, etc.) or individuals (who are usually members of a union) contracted for the duration of the film.  Of the ones who are employees of the production company, they're rarely in positions which lead to termination due to a film's failure, and even then, only if a film's failure is directly attributable to them.  They don't fire the guys who swing hammers and run cable unless they're really fucking things up, like setting things on fire or constantly jumping in front of the camera while the cast is filming scenes.  And for the contracted crew, they usually have to go through the director, who may or may not comply.  Directors like to use the same people for crews when they can.  Familiarity with the crew frees them up from micro-managing all of the work that goes on behind the camera and makes a shoot smoother for everyone.  Even if a producer hates some of the people a director wants to work with, the director's usually the one calling the shots because the producer needs the director, not the other way around.

 

It's very rare for cast/crew to end up permanently jobless because of a failed film, or even a string of failures.  There's always another movie set that needs a make-up artist, a set designer, a gaffer, audio technician, lighting technician, props, etc.  You don't hear about key grips struggling to make ends meet for the same reason you don't hear about people at ILM starving because a production company "fired" them.  That's not how it works.  The days of producers owning everything from the director to the best boy grip ended a long time ago.  Production companies are glorified investors, publishers and distributors these days, and if Producer A won't hire someone, Producers B-Z damn sure will.

 

Producers can fire directors (or throw so many obstacles in their way that they quit), who have much more control over the crew composition, and bring in a more pliable director, but that rarely works in their favor.  If a producer is very insistent, he/she might convince a director to get rid of a crew member, but that's not going to have much impact on that person's career, the director will likely hire him/her on the next project (that happens a lot), or someone else will hire him/her and express gratitude that he/she was available (that's usually what happens when the other thing doesn't).

 

No, the people who "suffer" are the ones in the production company, at least in the film industry.  And you're right that the ones at the top rarely see the consequences of being dumber than one of my boots, it's the middle managers and secretaries and in-house PR people and bean counters and mail clerks who are deemed "unnecessary" or "victims" of cost-cutting measures or whatever they decide to call it.  But even that's not the end of their careers, because, again, there are so many production companies.  Directors and actors have been starting their own production companies in droves over the last couple of decades, so there's always another middle management job, secretarial job, PR job, accounting job, mail clerk job, et cetera.  The "little guys" just move to another office, and they don't seem to be raising an uproar over that.

 

Now, yes, it's a little different in the video game industry.  A lot of good people lose their jobs when Ultrabig Money publishers buy their development studios and ruin them over time.  And that is sad, it's not something I celebrate... and at the same time, I feel that it's a lesson they should've learned by paying attention to what's happened every time one of those Ultrabig Money publishers has bought a development studio.  For decades, we've seen everything that companies like Activision and EA have done, we've seen them destroy one studio and franchise after another.  Anyone who sells out to a company like that, with the mountain of evidence showing that it's a bad idea... well, they should've known better, and I'm going to munch on my popcorn while they make shocked faces and run around like panicking civilians in an office map.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[battlewraith]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

That's... not how the film industry works. 

 

That's exactly how the industry is working. People who are underpayed to begin with are losing their jobs. Or transitioning to some other profession that offers some degree of stability. 

https://archive.vn/5iN1u

 

The notion that they can just bounce on to another project project headed by producers B-Z is maybe true if they can afford to move to another state or country and most likely work for less. 

 

People do stupid things all the time. Things that lead to disastrous outcomes for themselves, their families, and their communities. You want to munch popcorn over it, you do you. I'm not going to gloat over other people's sufferings. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

7 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Or, you have to say that box office doesn't really reflect quality.

 

I don't gotta say nuttin' to nobody.  You can't make me talk, copper!

[Luminara]

28 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

https://archive.vn/5iN1u

 

That article covers people who were affected by two striking unions slowing down productions when they were still ramping back up after the pandemic, and production companies looking for bigger tax breaks outside of California.  Not a single word of it even touched on film failures or production companies firing people, and considering that all of the people interviewed were unionized and contract workers, it affirmed what I said about the structure of the film industry.

 

Um... thanks?

[battlewraith]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

That article covers people who were affected by two striking unions slowing down productions when they were still ramping back up after the pandemic, and production companies looking for bigger tax breaks outside of California.  Not a single word of it even touched on film failures or production companies firing people, and considering that all of the people interviewed were unionized and contract workers, it affirmed what I said about the structure of the film industry.

 

Um... thanks?

Umm...no not really? Yes it affirmed the point you made that there are independent contractors and unions. And yes, not a single word of it touched on film failures or production companies firing people. But is certainly gutted the part where you insisted that these workers would just jump on another project. And yeah, the fallout goes back to two striking unions--unions that were striking in response to unfair labor practices. 

 

So yes, as I said before, the labor is suffering as the result of the decisions made by studio heads and money interests. That was the simple point I made earlier, it wasn't contingent on the specific scenario of a studio directly firing workers.

[Excraft]

@GM_GooglyMoogly @Luminara@battlewraith can we get back to the thread topic?   Gentle reminder -

 

On 3/5/2025 at 8:30 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

Please discuss the topic and not each other.

 

On 3/6/2025 at 12:15 PM, Excraft said:

There's been a couple of people who've complained that this thread has gone off the original topic, so perhaps we can get back to discussing CA: BNW?   What makes a good movie is an interesting topic and deserves its own thread I think.

 

Thank you.

[Trike]

On 2/28/2025 at 1:37 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

But in the current economic climate, you're going to have to do a lot better than average to drag people's butts to the 'plex. 

Going to the movies is now cheaper than buying eggs.

[Trike]

On 3/6/2025 at 10:14 AM, Techwright said:

What has annoyed me in over 4 decades since, is that, as a whole, Hollywood has yet to realize what pre-teen kids did in 1979. That is, this incredibly simple key:  the foundation is a superior script.

Hollywood has never understood that, honestly.

 

Look at Jaws, for instance. A superb film with excellent acting, an iconic score, amazing direction and cinematography, with a script that is scary, funny, and exciting, and the movie is tightly edited down to its core. It became a huge hit; it was *the* hit until Star Wars came along. The message Hollywood took away from that was, “Fish eating people = money.” That’s why we were inundated with those movies for the next decade, and no one remembers any of them. Orca, Piranha, Tentacles, Mako, Barracuda, Killer Shark, Last Shark, Devil Fish… on and on. 

 

Movie makers have been doing the same thing since forever, riding a trend for decades. A recent example is the whole subgenre of “couple stranded in the ocean surrounded by sharks”. Ever since Open Water was a hit they’ve made a dozen versions of the same flick. These are made alongside movies where the shark is somehow inside the building: Bait, Swim, Under Paris, and Malibu Shark Attack. Shark Night at least had the predator in a lake next to the house, and Dam Sharks has them in a river (where the sharks use human bodies to build dams). Sharknado came out in the middle of all this.

 

All because Jaws was a hit.

[Techwright]

15 minutes ago, Trike said:

Hollywood has never understood that, honestly.

 

Look at Jaws, for instance. A superb film with excellent acting, an iconic score, amazing direction and cinematography, with a script that is scary, funny, and exciting, and the movie is tightly edited down to its core. It became a huge hit; it was *the* hit until Star Wars came along. The message Hollywood took away from that was, “Fish eating people = money.” That’s why we were inundated with those movies for the next decade, and no one remembers any of them. Orca, Piranha, Tentacles, Mako, Barracuda, Killer Shark, Last Shark, Devil Fish… on and on. 

 

Movie makers have been doing the same thing since forever, riding a trend for decades. A recent example is the whole subgenre of “couple stranded in the ocean surrounded by sharks”. Ever since Open Water was a hit they’ve made a dozen versions of the same flick. These are made alongside movies where the shark is somehow inside the building: Bait, Swim, Under Paris, and Malibu Shark Attack. Shark Night at least had the predator in a lake next to the house, and Dam Sharks has them in a river (where the sharks use human bodies to build dams). Sharknado came out in the middle of all this.

 

All because Jaws was a hit.

 

You forgot Deep Blue Sea and The Meg, but who could blame you with the sheer volume of material?  The point is clear, and after those last two you mentioned, I half expect a Shark in a Hot Tub Time Machine at some point.

[Trike]

1 minute ago, Techwright said:

 

You forgot Deep Blue Sea and The Meg, but who could blame you with the sheer volume of material?  The point is clear, and after those last two you mentioned, I half expect a Shark in a Hot Tub Time Machine at some point.

Have you seen House Shark? Don’t, but watch the trailer. It’s simultaneously the apotheosis and nadir of shark movies: Shark attack in your toilet. I’m not kidding.

[Excraft]

@Techwright @Trike - what's this have to do with Captain America:  Brave New World?  Please keep on topic.  Thank you.

[Trike]

8 minutes ago, Excraft said:

@Techwright @Trike - what's this have to do with Captain America:  Brave New World?  Please keep on topic.  Thank you.

All the sharks in the movie make it relevant.

[Excraft]

3 minutes ago, Trike said:

All the sharks in the movie make it relevant.

 

It's not relevant to the thread topic.  If you'd like to discuss sharks, please create a new thread.  Thank you.

[battlewraith]

6 minutes ago, Trike said:

All the sharks in the movie make it relevant.

 

Are you serious? Cap fights sharks? I might have to see it if that's true.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Trike said:

“Fish eating people = money.”

 

Yeah... they charge an arm and a leg to eat people these days.  Inflation, man.  Inflation.

[Ghost]

Okay, just watched this.

 

Firstly, it’s not quite as bad a movie as the online community would have you believe.

Does that mean it’s really good? Nope.  Just okay.

Better than The Marvels, Eternals, Thor 3.  I’d even put it ahead of Antman 2, Iron Man 2 and GOTG 2 - but that may just be me.

Its very obvious they were going for the same type of thriller that Winter Soldier was, but fell very short.  It seemed rushed.  

There was no suspense.  No intrigue.  No buildup to anything.

The movie just sort of happens.

 

There was action, which I enjoyed.  Sams fighting style is cool, although there is one thing I hated.  The fact that he has no powers.  No super strength.  Yet still manages to utilize the shield in the same way Steve did.

Just makes no sense.  IMO he should never have thrown the shield.  
I enjoyed the final battle, although it was very short.  Which actually makes sense, because just how long could a normal man actually fight the Red Hulk.  
 

Overall it wasn’t a bad way to spend a cold, rainy afternoon on the coach.  I’ll definitely buy a blu-ray copy and add it to my collection.