Very Rare Res and Def sets

[Webmaxx3]

I think it would be great to make and add purple 10 sets for def and res aside from PVP sets.

[mistagoat]

While I don't really feel like this is a hole in great need of filling, I wouldn't be opposed to such a thing. However, it would really come down to the specific values/procs/bonuses.

Edited July 24 by mistagoat
missing word

[tidge]

Here is my PoV: There aren't attribute combinations for Defense and Resistance that aren't available and useful, AFAIK.

 

Let's have Purple sets for Fear and Threat first.... for the following reasons:

 

1) There are only two pieces in (different) Threat sets which include Accuracy, and many Threat powers require Accuracy. A Purple or PVP set could fill this niche.

 

2) There are no Threat set pieces which reduce Endurance costs, there are quite a few Threat powers which could benefit from Endurance reduction (i.e. toggles)

 

Fear enhancement sets are IMO better balanced in terms of attributes (Accuracy, Endurance, Recharge... and Fear obviously) but I see a "gameplay gap" where single-target Fear powers are almost completely useless, with the only exception being if a player stacks a single-target Fear onto a critter that has already been hit by another Fear. I'd like to see a "Contagious Fear" %proc, similar to the one from the Coercive Persuasion Confusion Enhancement set... as I have found that turning a Single-Target mezz into a %multi-target mezz to be a way to make inferior powers more useful across more content.

 

3) I generally find the choices of which set bonuses to pursue from the Fear sets to be mediocre, and I also default to Mocking Beratement for Threat, I find it annoying to only have two "up to level 50" sets from both Threat and Fear to consider for builds, without resorting to franken-slotting.

[shortguy on indom]

9 hours ago, Webmaxx3 said:

I think it would be great to make and add purple 10 sets for def and res aside from PVP sets.

• LIKE THIS IDEA.
• MAYBE THESE NEW SETS COULD WORK ON THE UNENHANCABLES ALA:  -REGEN; -DAM; -HEAL;  ETC.

[Webmaxx3]

5 hours ago, tidge said:

Here is my PoV: There aren't attribute combinations for Defense and Resistance that aren't available and useful, AFAIK.

 

Let's have Purple sets for Fear and Threat first.... for the following reasons:

 

1) There are only two pieces in (different) Threat sets which include Accuracy, and many Threat powers require Accuracy. A Purple or PVP set could fill this niche.

 

2) There are no Threat set pieces which reduce Endurance costs, there are quite a few Threat powers which could benefit from Endurance reduction (i.e. toggles)

 

Fear enhancement sets are IMO better balanced in terms of attributes (Accuracy, Endurance, Recharge... and Fear obviously) but I see a "gameplay gap" where single-target Fear powers are almost completely useless, with the only exception being if a player stacks a single-target Fear onto a critter that has already been hit by another Fear. I'd like to see a "Contagious Fear" %proc, similar to the one from the Coercive Persuasion Confusion Enhancement set... as I have found that turning a Single-Target mezz into a %multi-target mezz to be a way to make inferior powers more useful across more content.

 

3) I generally find the choices of which set bonuses to pursue from the Fear sets to be mediocre, and I also default to Mocking Beratement for Threat, I find it annoying to only have two "up to level 50" sets from both Threat and Fear to consider for builds, without resorting to franken-slotting.

It seems someone has, gotten off-topic.

[tidge]

9 minutes ago, Webmaxx3 said:

It seems someone has, gotten off-topic.

 

Was there a proposal in the OP I missed? Both Resistance and Defense sets already have PVP sets, as well as Hami-O and D-Syncs for the most common slotting needs, so what do you want from Purple varieties?

[Webmaxx3]

6 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Was there a proposal in the OP I missed? Both Resistance and Defense sets already have PVP sets, as well as Hami-O and D-Syncs for the most common slotting needs, so what do you want from Purple varieties?

Yes, you missed the part where I stated aside from the pvp set that we need a regular purple set for Res and Def.

[tidge]

Just now, Webmaxx3 said:

Yes, you missed the part where I stated aside from the pvp set that we need a regular purple set for Res and Def.

 

What is the need?

[Webmaxx3]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

 

What is the need?

I think you mean why is it needed? Well it would be fair to have a matching set to the attack-based purple sets.

[tidge]

1 minute ago, Webmaxx3 said:

I think you mean why is it needed? Well it would be fair to have a matching set to the attack-based purple sets.

 

Matching in what way? That they include combinations of (for example) Defense with Accuracy and/or Damage and/or Endurance and/or Recharge?

[Frozen Burn]

15 hours ago, Webmaxx3 said:

I think it would be great to make and add purple 10 sets for def and res aside from PVP sets.

 

1 hour ago, Webmaxx3 said:

I think you mean why is it needed? Well it would be fair to have a matching set to the attack-based purple sets.

 

59 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Matching in what way? That they include combinations of (for example) Defense with Accuracy and/or Damage and/or Endurance and/or Recharge?

 

Hi.  The ask for Resist and Defense Purple sets, along with a purple Healing set, goes all the way back to when the sets first came out.  The Devs have always been adamant about not making these as they would be too overpowered, and I do not see the HC Devs giving in and making them either.  We did get PVP versions, though, which help appease the masses. 

 

However, if purple resist and def sets were to be put in - I would be fine with it.  I am sure they would enhance the same things the current sets enhance:  Res/Def, EndRedux, Rech, and then have some sort of +HP, +Absorb, or other such defensive proc.   

 

But as @tidge stated, there is no NEED for these.  Sure, there's want and desire, but there is no gap that these fill other than completion's sake for OCD people.  😄  However, there is GREAT need for Purple sets to boost Fear and Threat as Tidge stated.  We have purples for practically every mez type:  Hold, Sleep, Confuse, Immob, Stun - but nothing for Fear and Threat, and Slow too (not really a mez, but it is a status effect).  

 

Fear and Threat IO sets are sorely lacking as it is (4 each - 2 low lvl and 2 high) with not really good options.  So, adding a Purple set to them is needed.  There are already plenty of Resist and Defense sets - and they actually give bonuses better than Purple sets, imo.

 

So - I am fine with these being asked for, and maybe the HC Devs will implement them.  I certainly won't argue if they're put in for me to use once in a blue moon.  But there is greater need for other purple sets besides Resist and Def.  

 

[FupDup]

Usually a def or res power just needs the main attribute enhanced (res/def) and then either endurance or recharge, but rarely both. There's not a whole ton of benefit in terms of slotting efficiency for having purple def/res sets. 

 

I think the real potential lies in either the set bonuses and/or procs that come with them, like maybe the purple def set's proc could be something like 10% DDR. But even then I agree with the point that other categories are lacking in strong IO options a lot more. 

[shortguy on indom]

• APPLYING SIMILAR LOGIC, WOULD SUPPORT FEAR AND THREAT SETS HAVING A PVP COMPONENT, BUT NO NEED FOR A PURPLE SINCE THEY ALREADY SUPPORT HAMIOS.

[shortguy on indom]

• PLENTY OF PREVIOUS THREADS TO DISCUSS FEAR AND THREAT OUT THERE ALREADY.  THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE?

[tidge]

33 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

• APPLYING SIMILAR LOGIC, WOULD SUPPORT FEAR AND THREAT SETS HAVING A PVP COMPONENT, BUT NO NEED FOR A PURPLE SINCE THEY ALREADY SUPPORT HAMIOS.

 

I believe (with no evidence) that Threat (originally Taunt) and Fear never got a PVP or a Purple set is specifically because of PVP content. That is: if players were hitting other players with PVP-boosted Taunt and Fear effects... neither which work precisely like other controls... and sometimes have "engine changes" to mechanics (Fear especially, but also Taunt)... then whatever "balance" existed in PVP content would become unbalanced. I came to believe this because there was something of a meltdown over Stuns at the original PVP launch. I half-suspect that if players could slot Accuracy/Threat in armor toggles then there would be a fraction of non-aura players that might find this unfair.

 

As I wrote above, there are missing Invention options for both Fear and Threat, and as @Frozen Burn writes, the pickings for set bonuses (and also Franken-slotting!) are incredibly thin with only two level 30-50 choices each. The only non-Travel sets with fewer options in that level range are AFAIK  the Recharge Intensive Pet damage and Accuracy-included buff/debuff/healing... but powers that take those sets generally also take other sets.

 

Specific to Hami-O and D-Syncs... those piece can't be crafted, and they offer larger inherent bonuses then crafted pieces.... with one tradeoff being they don't offer set bonuses.

[Webmaxx3]

30 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

I believe (with no evidence) that Threat (originally Taunt) and Fear never got a PVP or a Purple set is specifically because of PVP content. That is: if players were hitting other players with PVP-boosted Taunt and Fear effects... neither which work precisely like other controls... and sometimes have "engine changes" to mechanics (Fear especially, but also Taunt)... then whatever "balance" existed in PVP content would become unbalanced. I came to believe this because there was something of a meltdown over Stuns at the original PVP launch. I half-suspect that if players could slot Accuracy/Threat in armor toggles then there would be a fraction of non-aura players that might find this unfair.

 

As I wrote above, there are missing Invention options for both Fear and Threat, and as @Frozen Burn writes, the pickings for set bonuses (and also Franken-slotting!) are incredibly thin with only two level 30-50 choices each. The only non-Travel sets with fewer options in that level range are AFAIK  the Recharge Intensive Pet damage and Accuracy-included buff/debuff/healing... but powers that take those sets generally also take other sets.

 

Specific to Hami-O and D-Syncs... those piece can't be crafted, and they offer larger inherent bonuses then crafted pieces.... with one tradeoff being they don't offer set bonuses.

I'm not talking about pvp only pve. we are missing pve purple def and res sets.

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, Webmaxx3 said:

I'm not talking about pvp only pve. we are missing pve purple def and res sets.

Hopefully this time I can post without needing to edit, since the forum isn't letting me edit....

 

What @tidge is saying is that the reason why purple sets for threat and fear powers don't exist is the same reason why PvP sets for them don't exist. PvE sets can be used as easily in PvP as they can in PvE.

 

And from what @Frozen Burn is saying, this isn't likely to happen for resist and/or defense sets because the devs think a purple set for those would be too OP. And given how defense in this game works and how easy it is to stack on resist already, I'm inclined to agree.

[shortguy on indom]

• IMHO:
  • FEAR IS ALREADY WAY OVERPOWERED AS IS.
  • ADDITIONAL RES/DEF SETS FOR TOONS WHICH CAP AT 75% IS NOT OP.   JUST MORE CHOICES.
• UNSURE HOW ANY OF THIS PART OF DISCUSSION IS RELATED THOUGH TO THE ORIGINAL OP.
• LOTSA OPs. 

[Ukase]

I think it's a matter of each/all of us wanting things we'd find useful. I love the 10% recharge from the very rare sets, but they are almost all the same in most boost recharge 10%, they all improve endurance 4%, they all boost accuracy, they all boost psionic resistance. Some boost HP, some boost other attributes, but they are a lot more similar than different. 

And none of those sets boost defense or resist. 

I keep wondering where the very rare Heal set is. Not like I'd be using it for much, but it more options are almost always welcome. Just don't do the lame thing that was done with Experienced Marksman. Each of those recipes in the set all take the exact same ingredients. 

As for fear sets...candidly, I'm only just now finding a reason to even use fear. To date, I have never even taken a fear power, as it does no damage. Kind of useless to someone like me who will take any dps over no dps. But now, I'm leaning more into damage mitigation, as opposed to dps. If they're not hitting me, I don't need to spend a ton on defense and resistance. 

I am not an authority on any decision making with HC, but I have a hunch they upgraded the council and CoT for a reason. More defense and resistance options would negate at least some of the reason for those changes. Wouldn't they? 


 

[shortguy on indom]

2 minutes ago, Ukase said:

As for fear sets...candidly, I'm only just now finding a reason to even use fear. To date, I have never even taken a fear power, as it does no damage. Kind of useless to someone like me who will take any dps over no dps. But now, I'm leaning more into damage mitigation, as opposed to dps. If they're not hitting me, I don't need to spend a ton on defense and resistance. 

• AGREE TOTALLY.  FEAR IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE FINEST DEFENSES FOR TOONS WHICH DO NOT HAVE ANY ARMOR AND LIKE TO MIX IT UP IN MELEE.
• FEAR NEGATES THE INITIAL DAMAGE SPIKE AFTER ABOUT 5 SECONDS.  THE NO ATTACKS AND IMMOBILIZE WHICH FEAR DOES IS ALREADY NUTS. 
• ADDING MORE ACC TO FEAR IS JUST MAKING IT EVEN MORE OP.

[shortguy on indom]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What @tidge is saying is that the reason why purple sets for threat and fear powers don't exist is the same reason why PvP sets for them don't exist. PvE sets can be used as easily in PvP as they can in PvE.

• NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE GOING WITH THIS... BUT THE ADVANTAGE AND BENEFIT IN THIS CASE OF MAKING FEAR/THREAT PVP SETS VS PURPLES IS THAT IN PVE THEY WILL NOT BE OP RIGHT?
• I REALLY DO NOT HAVE ANY ISSUE AT ALL WITH ANY OF THIS, SINCE ORIGINAL THREAD WAS ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.  MAYBE START ANOTHER THREAD WITH THESE OPINIONS?

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

20 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What @tidge is saying is that the reason why purple sets for threat and fear powers don't exist is the same reason why PvP sets for them don't exist. PvE sets can be used as easily in PvP as they can in PvE.

• NOT SURE WHERE YOU ARE GOING WITH THIS...

I'm not going anywhere with that. I was simply trying to clarify what @tidge had said to @Webmaxx3. The thought itself is for @tidge to explain further if so desired.

[shortguy on indom]

• Webmaxx3 it's up to you to bring this one home at this point.  i have lost whatever the points are in this thread and am bowing out of this one.

[Chance Jackson]

I'd love it

[tidge]

For most considerations, PVP sets are essentially the same as Purple sets, at least as far as:

• What the values of the attribute bonuses are, per piece, for level 50 through 50+5
• Don't lose set bonuses when playing content below level 50

The biggest differences are (IMO):

• Characters must be at least level 50 to slot Purple enhancements, whereas PVP sets act as any other level 10-50 enhancement.
• Purple sets heavily favor Damage (or Control, for the control sets) and Recharge over Accuracy and Endurance Reduction
• For those that PVP, the PVP sets offer additional bonuses for that content.

Many threat toggles benefit from Endurance reduction (and to a lesser extent Accuracy), clicky Threat/Fear attacks require ToHit checks...so against higher-con enemies more accuracy is a good way to improve those powers. The single target Threat and Fear are about as useful as any other single-target control... except that the other controls have a LOT more options for player build variety. Another set of Defense, Defense/Endurance, Defense/Recharge. Defense/Endurance/Recharge, etc. isn't going to do anything different, unless there is a 6th piece with something like a global... that doesn't already exists in that type of set. And it isn't as if there aren't a great many excellent global pieces already in Defense and Resistance sets.

 

With Defense/Resistance... I don't see the need to create Purple sets for those, for two reasons:

1. The combination of attributes (most?) players want to enhance already exist in the existing Defense and Resistance sets, including one PVP set each for them
2. For many (most?) powers that take Defense or Resistance sets, it is actually quite rare that *I* want to slot even as many as four pieces from any given set! The limits from Enhancement Diversification hit hard, because IIRC the schedule for Defense/Resistance starts at something like 40% for those. The set bonuses have to be really worth it.
3. Defense and Resistance powers already can take many awesome global pieces.

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm not going anywhere with that. I was simply trying to clarify what @tidge had said to @Webmaxx3. The thought itself is for @tidge to explain further if so desired.

 

@Rudra comprehended. I have a lingering feeling that the original devs avoided anything that could be seen as a boost to Taunts and Fears because of how those might play out in PVP. I don't get the same vibe from the Homecoming devs (who replaced Taunt with Threat), and I know that they are open to new enhancement sets for types of powers that have (generally) poor options otherwise. We have gotten new Endurance Modification sets and one new Slow set specifically because the previously existing sets didn't offer enough useful modification for powers that could take those types of sets.

 

Fear and Threat are now the obvious outliers. I can understand why there isn't a populist uprising calling for new sets (there are a cadre of tankers that don't take Taunt, and I find I have to go out of my way to get a Fear power, let alone wanting to dedicate "Fear" slots to). Yet it is obvious to most anyone who tries to build a character using those powers just how limited the build choices are for those powers. Similar limitations do not exist for Defense or Resistance sets.