Halloween Elite Bosses.

[golstat2003]

4 hours ago, weemanjoe said:

 

I haven’t questioned any devs intentions and honestly I don’t care enough to have any real feelings on this issue. I care enough about this game though to think that some of these responses are needlessly hostile and incredibly off putting. You can disagree respectfully.

 

Saying you disagree with a suggestion and don't want something in game is not disrespectful. Showing evidence that the assumptions behind a suggestion are not correct is also not disrespectful.

 

With that said I agree SOME of the responses to Ultimo may have been a bit over the top.

 

EDIT: The change on beta seems reasonable to me. 🙂 

Edited October 6 by golstat2003

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

I took my lvl 50 Electric/Dark controller over to Kallisti and did some solo ToTing. Electric/Dark is clearly not a high damage combo. I unslotted my Alpha because I wanted to eliminate the level shift and you apparently can't get ToT foes over lvl 50 if you're not on a team, regardless of your notoriety settings.

I've been dual boxing (and for a little bit triple boxing) some of my chars just to get the EB badges and while my Ax/SR scrapper only had an issue once with a Crone draining my end, no biggie for them.   The not very well built Thermal/Pain Defender got whacked a few times before I could pull aggro, but that was the defenders fault for using enflame. 😄

 

Oh right, the point:

From what I can tell, (and heck, may be in notes somewhere) is that the strength of the door spawns depends on population near it.  Sorta like the invasion actually, but not sure.   So, when I was off in a under populated area, I'd get small groups coming out for the most part.  If I was around others, even if we were not on the main team, spawns were larger, and would be higher level.

 

I also noticed when we were off elsewhere, the spawns were quite random in size.  Sometimes one EB, sometimes a three minions, sometimes six mobs with a mix of minions, lts, and boss.

 

[lemming]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

With that said I agree SOME of the responses to Ultimo may have been a bit over the top.

Some of that is history with Ultimo, though I find it helps if people just address the issue at hand, so it doesn't come off as such.

[Shin Magmus]

3 minutes ago, lemming said:

Some of that is history with Ultimo, though I find it helps if people just address the issue at hand, so it doesn't come off as such.

     In principle this is absolutely correct, people should just address the issue currently.  In practice, Ultimo will state hyperbole such as the "15 minute fight" with an even-level EB in this thread's OP, while using a Mastermind (strong AT vs single bulky enemies) with Robotics (-600% regen set) and Elec Affinity (S-Tier set for MMs well-known for making pets very tanky) that defies explanation.  Most people in this thread, and in the game CoH as a whole, cannot replicate Ultimo's gameplay experiences.  I'd love to see a video of that fight from Ultimo, and his build, just to be able to understand how he got that result.  That said, almost everyone did address the issue at hand regardless: "Should we nerf the Halloween EBs or prevent them from spawning for solo players?", to which the resounding responses were "no" and "no", unless I missed something.

[Ultimo]

Try and stay on topic, please.  Talk about the suggestion, not about ME.

 

From the sticky, once again (my bold & italic for emphasis):

You have the right to respond CONSTRUCTIVELY to an idea.

If you don’t like it, no problem.  Just say “I don’t like it”.  You don't have to say why if you don’t want to.  If you have a reason why you don’t like it, please tell us why.  Focus your response on the idea, not the person. 

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Ultimo said:

Try and stay on topic, please.  Talk about the suggestion, not about ME.

 

From the sticky, once again (my bold & italic for emphasis):

You have the right to respond CONSTRUCTIVELY to an idea.

If you don’t like it, no problem.  Just say “I don’t like it”.  You don't have to say why if you don’t want to.  If you have a reason why you don’t like it, please tell us why.  Focus your response on the idea, not the person. 

Which we have tried.  We have gone thru several different methods of trying to replicate your results.  I went back with my non-slotted Robot MM and took out each of the EBs.   Thanks to Shin, I was reminded that the personal attack has -regen.  (Shows how much I play my MM) Though traps does have quite a few tools as well.

 

The EBs are tough, but they are also worth a lot of XP and frankly, the extra XP is higher than the difficulty.  I think the modification that is on Beta is good for the lower levels.  They only changed two of the EBs at that.

[lemming]

6 hours ago, lemming said:

From what I can tell, (and heck, may be in notes somewhere) is that the strength of the door spawns depends on population near it.  Sorta like the invasion actually, but not sure.   So, when I was off in a under populated area, I'd get small groups coming out for the most part.  If I was around others, even if we were not on the main team, spawns were larger, and would be higher level.

 

I also noticed when we were off elsewhere, the spawns were quite random in size.  Sometimes one EB, sometimes a three minions, sometimes six mobs with a mix of minions, lts, and boss.

Ok, looked at the old Score code and difficulty isn't referenced, though it is set based on team size (+3 if over six members on a team) and it references a team size override, so maybe x8 does stuff.

 

Caveats:  This code has definitely had work since HC began, so this should be considered a historical, rather than current view.  Does show it's possible to have notoriety settings affect a door opening, I think.

[Shin Magmus]

11 hours ago, lemming said:

The EBs are tough, but they are also worth a lot of XP and frankly, the extra XP is higher than the difficulty.  I think the modification that is on Beta is good for the lower levels.  They only changed two of the EBs at that.

     The EBs are definitely tougher than any of the other enemies that can come out of the door, as is both expected and intended.  However (like you say), the XP is a lot.  Here's a video of my leveling build DB/Rad Scrapper (lv40) casually dispatching the supposedly more problematic EB in question: the Ancient Vampire.

 

 

     For 1v1s against melee ATs, I think Arisen Mummy is the most dangerous... but my lv50 MM dumpstered that one specifically because the Poison debuffs are all single target.  None of them are difficult in a team, and generally only one of them will be even moderately difficult for your specific build in solo play.  All of these EBs are easy enough to beat and none require a nerf.

[Marine X]

Only one I had an issue with was the Ancient Mummy and his secret stash of endurance. My Electric/Electric Tank could have him drained to 0, zip, nada endurance, not even a hint of blue on his bar, and he could still hit me with Footstomp and Knockout Blow, back to back, that seems like a bit of a bug. If I fired off 2 big attacks with my endurance that low every toggle I have, and Electric has a bunch, would drop. How is it that he gets an endurance management free pass? All the other Halloween EBs seem to go mostly idle once their endurance is gone, but not Mr. Bandage Boy, he fights on.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Marine X said:

Only one I had an issue with was the Ancient Mummy and his secret stash of endurance. My Electric/Electric Tank could have him drained to 0, zip, nada endurance, not even a hint of blue on his bar, and he could still hit me with Footstomp and Knockout Blow, back to back, that seems like a bit of a bug. If I fired off 2 big attacks with my endurance that low every toggle I have, and Electric has a bunch, would drop. How is it that he gets an endurance management free pass? All the other Halloween EBs seem to go mostly idle once their endurance is gone, but not Mr. Bandage Boy, he fights on.

Arisen Mummy has no resistance to -end or -recovery. Other than Unstoppable it has no +end or +recovery powers. The issue you're running into is that while an Electric/Electric tank can drain a foe to 0 endurance, its tools to keep endurance floored are more limited. Power Sink (in Electric Armor) and most of the attacks in Electric Melee only have a 30% chance of -100% recovery and only for 4s. The only power with guaranteed -recovery is Thunder Strike and still for only 4s. I was more successful in keeping endurance floored with my Electric controller because its -recovery powers have a higher probability and a longer duration.

[Marine X]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

an Electric/Electric tank can drain a foe to 0 endurance, its tools to keep endurance floored are more limited.

 

I understand I can't keep him there long, the point is he doesn't wait, He fires off 2 big attacks WHILE his endurance is at ZERO, not even a sliver of blue in the bar. It could be a lack of accuracy of the Endurance Bar to show actual levels, or he has a Secret Stash somewhere. It has happened multiple times since the event started and only with the Ancient Mummy.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Marine X said:

 

I understand I can't keep him there long, the point is he doesn't wait, He fires off 2 big attacks WHILE his endurance is at ZERO, not even a sliver of blue in the bar. It could be a lack of accuracy of the Endurance Bar to show actual levels, or he has a Secret Stash somewhere. It has happened multiple times since the event started and only with the Ancient Mummy.

I don't see anything that would account for that.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/entity.html?entity=event_zombie_eliteboss

[Marine X]

56 minutes ago, Uun said:

I don't see anything that would account for that.

I know, I checked Wiki and that's what's so weird about it or I wouldn't have mentioned it. Still finally took him out, but the mechanics of how he was able to do that baffles me. Empty Endurance Bar should limit him to low Endurance attacks till he recovers, but not so much. Like I said, weird. ( of course, Halloween is 80% WEIRD, so it fits )

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Marine X said:

 

I understand I can't keep him there long, the point is he doesn't wait, He fires off 2 big attacks WHILE his endurance is at ZERO, not even a sliver of blue in the bar. It could be a lack of accuracy of the Endurance Bar to show actual levels, or he has a Secret Stash somewhere. It has happened multiple times since the event started and only with the Ancient Mummy.

 

EBs have 800 endurance.  Tainted Foot Stomp and Tainted Knockout Blow both cost 14.  That's less than 2%.  Base Recovery rate is 6.67%, or, in the case of an EB, 53.36 endurance, every 4s.

 

The only /Elec attack with a 100% chance of 100% -Recovery is Thunder Strike, and that lasts only 4s.  Charged Brawl and Jacob's Ladder are 10% chances of 100% -Recovery for 2s.  Havoc Punch, Chain Induction and Power Sink (you stated Elec/ primary, so i'm including that) each only have a 30% chance of 100% -Recovery for 4s.

 

Basically, you can't keep it from recovering endurance, and even if you drain it to 0, the next Recovery tic gives it enough to use its attacks.  As to why you're not seeing the endurance bar refilling enough to give a visual indication, you're draining it at the same time it's coming in, so it's just a blip of light.  It does have the endurance to use those attacks, for the 0.132s it takes the server to tell it to activate them.

 

This isn't a bug, or a mistake, or attacks being set to 0 endurance cost on purpose.  It's how EB/AV combat was designed to work (they're not supposed to be easily rendered helpless).  If you want to lock an EB down by sapping, you need guaranteed -Recovery.  As a tanker, you can only do that by alternating Thunder Strike with Static Discharge (Mu Mastery, 100% chance of 100% -Recovery for 4s)... and to do that, you need ~235% global +Recharge and ~90% Recharge Reduction slotted in Static Discharge (to reduce the recharge time to less than 5.75s so it recharges and can be used within time to keep the EB's Recovery at 0%).