Which primary for returning player?

[Call Me Awesome]

Hey all, it's been probably close to 5 years since I played much, and longer than that since I played a Scrapper regularly.  I was thinking of starting a new Scrapper and wondered what the current state of the powersets was.

 

I've played Spines, Fire, Broadsword and Street Justice to 50 on Scrappers, some more than once, and Staff, Fire and Electric on Stalkers so I'm probably looking for something else.  Secondaries I've played include Invuln (mainly on tankers), Regen (Scrapper and Stalker), Shield (Scrapper, Stalker and Tanker), Willpower (Tanker when it had a lousy aura) and Ice (Tanker)

 

I'm leaning against sets with odd mechanics and want excellent damage both ST and AOE.  Prefer a secondary with a lot of survivability without having to IO the crap out of it... although if you soft cap your defense a Fire/Regen stalker can be godly at level 50.  Last I looked I had one of only two of that combo in the game 😉

 

 

[Maelwys]

My vote would be for a BattleAxe/Rad.

BattleAxe doesn't have any combo gimmicks; but its main PBAoE "Axe Cyclone" causes inverted repel and knockup; which sucks nearby enemies towards you. This drags them into range for other AoEs such as Pendulum and any Auras (e.g. /Rad's Beta Decay). It's a little bit like a miniature "Fold Space"; and you can also use it to move mobs by jumping away from them and then immediately activating Axe Cyclone to "suck" them along for the ride with you.

Radiation Armor is primarily a +resistance powerset; but it also gives a very high Absorb "buffer" (Particle Shielding) plus substantial Recharge Rate, Regeneration and Recovery buffs. It has quite a good set of resistances to some nasty debuffs (Regeneration, Recharge, Recovery, Endurance, RunSpeed) and it can inflict -Regen (via Radiation Therapy) and -ToHit (via Beta Decay). The main draw of the set for most people however is Ground Zero - a big radius PBAoE that can hit up to 30 targets and copes extremely well with damage procs (even slotted for ED-capped recharge they'll have a maximum chance to trigger). The only real weakness of the set is Defense - and whilst you can build for that with set bonuses, it's often easier to just pick up Shadow Meld from the Soul Mastery Epic pool and/or Barrier Destiny for the few times you really need it.

Axe Cyclone + Pendulum + Cleave + Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy is a very good range of AOE.
Chop + Gash + Swoop + Cleave is good Single Target; and you can pickup Moonbeam to round it out enroute to Shadow Meld.

Note that BattleAxe is very good for both ST and AoE damage... but it's also very endurance heavy. However with /Rad that issue will be partially countered by Gamma Boost and will totally evaporate once you get "Radiation Therapy" and stick a Performance Shifter proc in it.

Both sets love additional Global Recharge and damage procs, but it shouldn't need specific IO sets to "work" other than that single Performance Shifter Proc.

..........

If you don't fancy the look of BattleAxe/Bio then looking at the sets you've played.... perhaps a Claws/ or MA/ primary plus a /SR or /Stone (Non-Granite) secondary?

Claws has a number of decent AoEs; MA only has one (Dragon's Tail) but it's exceptionally good and fast-recharging. Savage Melee is another option- technically it has a combo mechanic (Blood Frenzy) but you can largely just ignore it. Unfortunately /Fire is better on Brutes and Tankers; and whilst /Bio is fantastic it has a stance-shifting mechanic that you may not enjoy.
 

Edited November 1 by Maelwys

[venetiasilver]

Stone Melee / Energy Aura 

[Call Me Awesome]

8 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

My vote would be for a BattleAxe/Rad.

BattleAxe doesn't have any combo gimmicks; but its main PBAoE "Axe Cyclone" causes inverted repel and knockup; which sucks nearby enemies towards you. This drags them into range for other AoEs such as Pendulum and any Auras (e.g. /Rad's Beta Decay). It's a little bit like a miniature "Fold Space"; and you can also use it to move mobs by jumping away from them and then immediately activating Axe Cyclone to "suck" them along for the ride with you.

Radiation Armor is primarily a +resistance powerset; but it also gives a very high Absorb "buffer" (Particle Shielding) plus substantial Recharge Rate, Regeneration and Recovery buffs. It has quite a good set of resistances to some nasty debuffs (Regeneration, Recharge, Recovery, Endurance, RunSpeed) and it can inflict -Regen (via Radiation Therapy) and -ToHit (via Beta Decay). The main draw of the set for most people however is Ground Zero - a big radius PBAoE that can hit up to 30 targets and copes extremely well with damage procs (even slotted for ED-capped recharge they'll have a maximum chance to trigger). The only real weakness of the set is Defense - and whilst you can build for that with set bonuses, it's often easier to just pick up Shadow Meld from the Soul Mastery Epic pool and/or Barrier Destiny for the few times you really need it.

Axe Cyclone + Pendulum + Cleave + Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy is a very good range of AOE.
Chop + Gash + Swoop + Cleave is good Single Target; and you can pickup Moonbeam to round it out enroute to Shadow Meld.

Note that BattleAxe is very good for both ST and AoE damage... but it's also very endurance heavy. However with /Rad that issue will be partially countered by Gamma Boost and will totally evaporate once you get "Radiation Therapy" and stick a Performance Shifter proc in it.

Both sets love additional Global Recharge and damage procs, but it shouldn't need specific IO sets to "work" other than that single Performance Shifter Proc.

..........

If you don't fancy the look of BattleAxe/Bio then looking at the sets you've played.... perhaps a Claws/ or MA/ primary plus a /SR or /Stone (Non-Granite) secondary?

Claws has a number of decent AoEs; MA only has one (Dragon's Tail) but it's exceptionally good and fast-recharging. Savage Melee is another option- technically it has a combo mechanic (Blood Frenzy) but you can largely just ignore it. Unfortunately /Fire is better on Brutes and Tankers; and whilst /Bio is fantastic it has a stance-shifting mechanic that you may not enjoy.
 

 

A decent suggestion there, Axe is a set I've never even looked at in Mids so I'll try and work something up.  Claws I've dabbled with a couple of times to the mid 20's.  Stone Armor I've played twice on a tanker, once with Energy Melee (ugh, HATED that when ET got nerfed in what, issue 5 or 6?) and once with Fire Melee after the massive nerfs to Invuln and ED.  I've seen that Stone Armor has changed significantly since then, my last stoner was before shutdown, and I'm not up on it.

 

Rad Armor and Bio both look interesting; I've never played either one and they look like they'll build up pretty tough.  A glance at Mids and it looks like Bio might need the full powerset?  At a glance I don't see anything very skippable there.

[Call Me Awesome]

12 minutes ago, venetiasilver said:

Stone Melee / Energy Aura 

Stone Melee I'm very familiar with in the Tanker version; never played EA however.  I remember thinking it was similar to SR when it came out?

[venetiasilver]

1 minute ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Stone Melee I'm very familiar with in the Tanker version; never played EA however.  I remember thinking it was similar to SR when it came out?

Stone just pawnches, Take Fault for extra controls and FFB proc. 
Energy Aura is a sturdy Scrapper Set, and gives you more recharge for More Seismic Smashing!
 

[Maelwys]

21 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

 

A decent suggestion there, Axe is a set I've never even looked at in Mids so I'll try and work something up.  Claws I've dabbled with a couple of times to the mid 20's.  Stone Armor I've played twice on a tanker, once with Energy Melee (ugh, HATED that when ET got nerfed in what, issue 5 or 6?) and once with Fire Melee after the massive nerfs to Invuln and ED.  I've seen that Stone Armor has changed significantly since then, my last stoner was before shutdown, and I'm not up on it.

 

Rad Armor and Bio both look interesting; I've never played either one and they look like they'll build up pretty tough.  A glance at Mids and it looks like Bio might need the full powerset?  At a glance I don't see anything very skippable there.

Stone Armor plays very well ever since the rework - Granite Armor has largely been reduced to a mule power. The good things for damage output are the +recharge from Minerals and the "chance for additional damage" (think of it a bit like a glorified Global Damage Proc; which Scrapper Critical hits apply to) from Brimstone. 

Energy Melee has been reworked to include a slight combo mechanic which lets you do a "Quick" Energy Transfer for a few seconds after you use Total Focus (or two in a row if TF Crits!). It actually plays pretty well on a Scrapper and whilst the set isn't huge on AoE; Whirling Hands is pretty decent and Power Crash gets to hit 10 foes instead of 5 after a Total Focus. My EM/Rad is one of my favourite Scrappers.

And yeah /Bio really needs the whole powerset to shine. Although you could get away with skipping Meltdown on /Rad.

  

19 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

Stone Melee I'm very familiar with in the Tanker version; never played EA however.  I remember thinking it was similar to SR when it came out?

/EA is very solid.

Think /SR with "self-healing, endurance recovery and a damage aura" in place of the "scaling damage resistance as your HP drops".
Energy Cloak is skippable, as is Overload if you're not fond of crashing T9s.

The downside is that it has hardly any damage resistance to speak of; but you can build it up a bit via Tough + set bonuses (or Rune of Protection) if you want.
 

Edited November 1 by Maelwys

[ninja surprise]

Welcome back @Call Me Awesome! If you haven't been playing then I remember you from live.

 

Battle Axe is cool now.

Energy Melee is good single target damage, but doesn't crit as much as you'd hope.

Titan Weapons gives tons of whirly massive damage smashy fun, but sucks if you have to chase a runner. I'm rebuilding a TW/Ninjitsu Scrapper right now, and it's a blast sneaking into a mob, popping Build Momentum and a bunch of AoE's, getting crit from hide and defeating almost everything with my alpha strike. TW is great on teams when there's a herding tank or a controller to lock down the mobs so they can't run away. It sucks on the "runner" portion of the BAF trial because you're lucky to get one attack off before the runners are too far to hit again.

 

Stone Armor got a good re-work when it was ported to Scrappers.

Bio is really good on Scrappers, but it takes quite a bit of inf to get it the set bonuses it needs to be sturdy at high levels. It's good for leveling with +heal and +end though. Savage Melee / Bio is a really fun combo. Except that Savage Leap doesn't work against some inanimate targets, like the Rikti tower things in the last mission of LGTF, or the computer in ITF. That's just an annoyance that doesn't happen much.

 

I think my only real tip is to avoid Psi Melee and Regen.  Everything else is pretty good.

 

[Call Me Awesome]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll sit down and play a bit with Mids, then probably roll up a couple of choices and see how they work in the early going, then likely pick one to focus on.

[SomeGuy]

Claws is super safe and super effective (two really good ranged soft CCs in the set). Amazing AOE and really good single target. Not a lot of front loaded damage. This set it fast. Really fast.

 

Dual Blades is REALLY good single target, OK AOE, and has a mix of fast and KABOOM in the mix. Really fast set.

 

Battle Axe got a revamp and is amazing AOE and really good single target. Honestly, it's a top-tier primary now.

 

Martial Arts is a dark horse of a monster. It has really good single target and AOE damage.

 

Energy Melee got a revamp. It's top-tier single target now. Low tier AOE (but still a lot better AOE then it was).

 

Titan Weapons is REALLY good but is NOT friendly to inexperienced players.

 

 

Energy Aura is pretty much king of the secondaries.

 

Radiation Armor is pretty much the best resistance based secondary for scrappers.

 

Bio Armor is a glass cannon. It is hands down the most damaging secondary. You play this set on the edge, You either get gobs of XP or gobs of debt.

 

If a lack of a taunt aura is fine:

 

Stone Armor. Hard to kill and really adds a lot to damage.

 

Electric Armor. Same as stone.

 

 

The other secondaries (not regen...don't) are good but those three really stand out.

 

I can confirm BA/RAD is good and fun. I have one. I prefer the CLAWS/BIO but that's a preference thing.

 

 

Forgot to mention, combos in Dual Blades are meaningless if you are trying to get the most DPS out of the set.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2 by SomeGuy

[dtaxtman86]

Here is a BA/SR Build. Positionals, DDR, near perma hasten. Elude can save lives. Does well for most things. For solo can pick rebirth radial for the added regen + elude for oh shit.

Black Nite - Scrapper (Battle Axe- Super Reflex).mbd

Edited November 3 by dtaxtman86

[venetiasilver]

12 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

Claws is super safe and super effective (two really good ranged soft CCs in the set). Amazing AOE and really good single target. Not a lot of front loaded damage. This set it fast. Really fast.

 

Dual Blades is REALLY good single target, OK AOE, and has a mix of fast and KABOOM in the mix. Really fast set.

 

Battle Axe got a revamp and is amazing AOE and really good single target. Honestly, it's a top-tier primary now.

 

Martial Arts is a dark horse of a monster. It has really good single target and AOE damage.

 

Energy Melee got a revamp. It's top-tier single target now. Low tier AOE (but still a lot better AOE then it was).

 

Titan Weapons is REALLY good but is NOT friendly to inexperienced players.

 

 

Energy Aura is pretty much king of the secondaries.

 

Radiation Armor is pretty much the best resistance based secondary for scrappers.

 

Bio Armor is a glass cannon. It is hands down the most damaging secondary. You play this set on the edge, You either get gobs of XP or gobs of debt.

 

If a lack of a taunt aura is fine:

 

Stone Armor. Hard to kill and really adds a lot to damage.

 

Electric Armor. Same as stone.

 

 

The other secondaries (not regen...don't) are good but those three really stand out.

 

I can confirm BA/RAD is good and fun. I have one. I prefer the CLAWS/BIO but that's a preference thing.

 

 

Forgot to mention, combos in Dual Blades are meaningless if you are trying to get the most DPS out of the set.

 

 

 

 

Regen Slander will not stand.
It'll just get up again.

[SomeGuy]

Slander would be false. It isn't slander.

[venetiasilver]

Regen is the best armor set! 
Regen is the worst armor set!

Yes

[Without_Pause]

I've taken EA to 50 across four ATs, and I have a hard time saying it is better than Shield or SR. It will be smoother to get to 50, but end game is where those two armors shine. 

[StriderIV]

On 11/2/2024 at 3:43 PM, SomeGuy said:

Claws is super safe and super effective (two really good ranged soft CCs in the set). Amazing AOE and really good single target. Not a lot of front loaded damage. This set it fast. Really fast.

 

Dual Blades is REALLY good single target, OK AOE, and has a mix of fast and KABOOM in the mix. Really fast set.

 

Battle Axe got a revamp and is amazing AOE and really good single target. Honestly, it's a top-tier primary now.

 

Martial Arts is a dark horse of a monster. It has really good single target and AOE damage.

 

Energy Melee got a revamp. It's top-tier single target now. Low tier AOE (but still a lot better AOE then it was).

 

Titan Weapons is REALLY good but is NOT friendly to inexperienced players.

 

 

Energy Aura is pretty much king of the secondaries.

 

Radiation Armor is pretty much the best resistance based secondary for scrappers.

 

Bio Armor is a glass cannon. It is hands down the most damaging secondary. You play this set on the edge, You either get gobs of XP or gobs of debt.

 

If a lack of a taunt aura is fine:

 

Stone Armor. Hard to kill and really adds a lot to damage.

 

Electric Armor. Same as stone.

 

 

The other secondaries (not regen...don't) are good but those three really stand out.

 

I can confirm BA/RAD is good and fun. I have one. I prefer the CLAWS/BIO but that's a preference thing.

 

 

Forgot to mention, combos in Dual Blades are meaningless if you are trying to get the most DPS out of the set.

 

 

 

 

MA has caught my eye on a Scrapper. Any particular secondaries you’d recommend with it? I was looking at Ninjitsu, but I’m open to options.

 

MA/Elec Armor seems great as well, but might be a better fit on a Brute or Tanker.

[SomeGuy]

12 hours ago, StriderIV said:

MA has caught my eye on a Scrapper. Any particular secondaries you’d recommend with it? I was looking at Ninjitsu, but I’m open to options.

 

MA/Elec Armor seems great as well, but might be a better fit on a Brute or Tanker.

 

It's really REALLY hard for me to recommend anything without a taunt aura, so EA, Rad, Bio, and Invinc stand out for me.

 

With that said, I have done MA/NIN and it was really good. And thematically for character concept worked REALLY well. People sleep on Ninjitsu it seems. Not sure why. Good set.

 

Literally the only reason I still don't drive my MA/NIN any more is because of a lack of taunt aura. I went MA/RAD because of it. Ground Zero, EC with crit proc and higher crit chance, then AOE KD kick? Pretty darn good AOE TBH.

 

Ele Armor is really good too, easy to cap a lot of resists on it for scrappers. Sadly, no taunt aura for scraps. Honestly, seems like a really fun combo on a Tanker. I've got a TW/ELE and it really highlights how OP tankers are. Capping most resists, DMG aura, and MA's AOE attack...seems productive. And MA also does good ST.

 

Edit: Just took my MA/RAD/SOUL for a drive. Rad Therapy (procced out), build up, eagle's claws, dragon's tail, ground zero. Most of mob almost completely dead.

Edited November 4 by SomeGuy

[Without_Pause]

The lack of a taunt aura is less of an issue with Claws due to the ranged attacks. Shield has a taunt aura as well unless CoD is incorrect, but I honestly haven't seen runners with my Shield Scrapper like I do with my SR so I am assuming it is correct. Get the Recharge down and MA/shield would be a great combo with solid AoE.

Edited November 4 by Without_Pause

[Marshal_General]

I rebuilt my signature character from live as energy melee/ Inv as soon as it became available. I put the crit proc chance in TF which makes ET instant.

 

When I TF and see that crit proc message, I smile knowing I am about to delete something.

[SeraphimKensai]

Claws/stone, TW/Nin, or Axe/Ice all great.