Group Fly Suggestions

[Starhawk32]

If I had magic gull power it would be "decline ice buff".  I know I can cancel it or hide it.  The cold support is just trying to do their job and will notice I don't look like an ice cube and hit me again, lol

[Fade]

I personally like the solution of:

• Have group fly at base level only affect self and pet-class entities (I don't think anyone would object to their pets being affected by someone else's group fly).
• Give it a pop-up tray, similar to afterburner, that allows group fly to affect players as it does now (including whatever new system allows a player to choose to not be affected by it, by default or via an options menu selection)

I think this setup would give the best of both worlds. Under normal circumstances, I think most players do not want to be affected by someone else's group fly. But some players do intend to give others group flight for specific tasks, like Hamidon raids, and it would be unfortunate if they lost the ability to provide that to people who want it. This setup allows the user of group fly to fine-tune what kinds of entities are affected by their power, and also has room for the players to decline it.

[srmalloy]

On 1/1/2025 at 7:09 AM, Arcanum said:

soon™️

"Two weeks" -- the universal programmer's jargon for "When it's ready; go away and let us work."
 

[macskull]

On 1/1/2025 at 7:13 PM, tidge said:

At this point I can't say what is more "tired", is it the suggestion to use Null the Gull or the insistence that some subset of players shouldn't have to hear the suggestion?

People use the Speed Boost analogy here but I'd bet all my inf the number of players who go to the Gull to disable speed buffs is far smaller than the number of players who go to the Gull to disable Group Fly, and the number of characters who have Speed Boost is absolutely higher than the number of characters that take Group Fly.

 

The biggest issue with "just go to the Gull" is that it relies on a single NPC in a particular zone who is also unable to be used while in task force mode. If I haven't disabled Group Fly before I find myself on a task force with a character who uses it, I'm stuck flying whenever I'm near the player who decides to use it. As far as disrupting a team being a stretch... it really isn't. Some characters have powers that can't be turned on or used while off the ground, so in addition to replacing the travel powers in my build with the worst travel power in the game, I'm now stuck being unable to use some of my powers. That's just not good design.

Edited Saturday at 07:21 PM by macskull

[tidge]

33 minutes ago, macskull said:

 That's just not good design.

 

Setting aside what "design intent" means in a game with this much freedom of choice, Null the Gull remains an excellent compromise.

[Super Atom]

9 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Setting aside what "design intent" means in a game with this much freedom of choice, Null the Gull remains an excellent compromise.

 

Should be in START. Everyone (probably) visits that on creation anyway. If we're talking maximum effectiveness of a band-aid solution.

[Jacke]

6 hours ago, Super Atom said:

Should be in START. Everyone (probably) visits that on creation anyway. If we're talking maximum effectiveness of a band-aid solution.

 

I think the options that Null the Gull provides can't be put into a S.T.A.R.T. vendor, because they have to apply effects or hidden Powers that can only be put in a dialogue, not a vendor listing.  And only the S.T.A.R.T. vendor listing can be used in Task-Force-Mode (which as @macskull points out above is vital).  That's why the Pocket-D S.T.A.R.T. vendor doesn't have a dialogue before the vendor listing, so it can be used in Task-Force-Mode.

 

And to change that means changing the game engine, which is hard and the most demanding thing to get absolutely right the first time.  It's why the very skilled and focused people like @Faultline and @Number Six are the ones who do that.  And I imagine there's a whole queue of work for that already suggested.

[Super Atom]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

 

I think the options that Null the Gull provides can't be put into a S.T.A.R.T. vendor, because they have to apply effects or hidden Powers that can only be put in a dialogue, not a vendor listing.  And only the S.T.A.R.T. vendor listing can be used in Task-Force-Mode (which as @macskull points out above is vital).  That's why the Pocket-D S.T.A.R.T. vendor doesn't have a dialogue before the vendor listing, so it can be used in Task-Force-Mode.

 

And to change that means changing the game engine, which is hard and the most demanding thing to get absolutely right the first time.  It's why the very skilled and focused people like @Faultline and @Number Six are the ones who do that.  And I imagine there's a whole queue of work for that already suggested.

 

Do you know this or are you saying this.

 

because if you KNOW this is true, this saves a lot of time suggesting when this issue comes up.

Edited Sunday at 04:26 AM by Super Atom

[Jacke]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

Do you know this or are you saying this.

 

I'm not a dev, but I base this on what the Devs had said in the past.  A dialogue in City can invoke any command, common or special, so it can do virtually anything.  A vendor listing can only provide items that can be stored on Toons.

[Super Atom]

8 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 

I'm not a dev, but I base this on what the Devs had said in the past.  A dialogue in City can invoke any command, common or special, so it can do virtually anything.  A vendor listing can only provide items that can be stored on Toons.

 

There's a ton of NPC's who give missions and also can open a vendor listing. So i don't quite understand what you're getting at

[Jacke]

44 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

There's a ton of NPC's who give missions and also can open a vendor listing. So i don't quite understand what you're getting at

 

Like the S.T.A.R.T. vendors outside of Pocket D, they have a dialogue, one option of which opens their listing.  They do most things via the dialogue.  The vendor listing can only contain items for sale that can be stored on a Toon.

 

The fancy functions of Null the Gull are all in the dialogue.  Also, the devs had said there isn't going to be more Nulls placed into the game, Pocket D is it.  Null was introduced to give a way to adjust some things and determine others that would have been very difficult or impossible to put into the game in another form.

 

Also, considering what Null does, having that in a completely non-combat neutral Zone like Pocket D likely deals with many issues by pre-establishing limits before there can be problems.

 

Thus to give functions like Null the Gull elsewhere in the game is either:

• A duplicate of Null, which the devs have said they don't want to do (having more than one very special contact likely has issues all its own).
• A whole new UI feature, which would need engine changes, which do happen, but only for the things most vital to support other stuff in the game.

Short of hearing directly from the devs with an update, there isn't going to be functions like Null the Gull has added to S.T.A.R.T.

 

And as my post on the first page has brought up, there are better ways to deal with Group Fly's issues, now that the game is filled with temp Fly Powers.  That is to redefine what Group Fly affects to remove its effects on Teammates.

[macskull]

On 1/4/2025 at 8:38 PM, Super Atom said:

 

There's a ton of NPC's who give missions and also can open a vendor listing. So i don't quite understand what you're getting at

It’s not the vendor listing that determines if a contact can be interacted with while in task force mode. If there is intro dialog for the contact, then you’ll get the “you can’t talk to this contact while on a task force” message. The Pocket D START vendor has no intro dialog which allows you to use it in TF mode.