How much tech does it take...?

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

 

That's fine.  I wasn't really asking in order to decide.  My OP was meant more as a curiosity of what other's interpretation(s) would be.

 

Well you got mine! It's however I feel it fits in the moment.

 

I often go for Science - I am drawn to it because I believe it's one of the least common origins, and also it allows a lot of leeway.

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

As one man once said "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law" but I doubt he'd ever thought of City of Heroes when he said it.

Particularly because it falls under the same truncated misquotation problem as "money is the root of all evil" ('The love of money is the root of all evil'). The original quote is "An it harm none, do what thou wild be the whole of the law."

[biostem]

On 1/8/2025 at 3:07 PM, PoptartsNinja said:

Statesman and Lord Recluse's powers came from the same source, but Statesman is magic origin and Lord Recluse is science origin

I thought Recluse was "Science" because he attempted to intervene and direct/manipulate what was granted to him by the Well of Furies, vs Statesman just kind of "going with it"...

[PoptartsNinja]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

I thought Recluse was "Science" because he attempted to intervene and direct/manipulate what was granted to him by the Well of Furies, vs Statesman just kind of "going with it"...

Nope, it's in the novel.

Richter thought he'd been dosed with radiation, while Cole was certain they'd found Pandora's Box.

[Kaika]

On 1/7/2025 at 5:46 PM, Frozen Burn said:

A demon might be considered "magic" origin, but it is what it is - it was born/spawned/created as a demon and it has inherent and natural abilities, it doesn't do spell work as it's magic is "natural" to it and therefore could be considered as a "natural" origin.  Same could be said for a Mutant that was born that way - it's abilities being natural and inherent. 

 

Oh hey, this is LITERALLY the back story of my Natural origin stalker "Fio Rune" everything she does is something that she can naturally do because she is a demon, she is just really good at it, basically the demonic equivalent of a martial arts master.

 

Really though, there is no hard lines and it all comes down to interpretation. Depending on who's writing him, Batman could be consider of both Tech and Natural origin, and while I personally would lean more on the natural origin, with all the gadgets and vehicles he uses I could see a argument for him being a tech origin. It's a issue I've had when making a few of my characters, I usually just end up settling on what feels the most "central" to their abilities or character.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I think there's another issue that hasn't necessarily been considered when looking at silver-age heroes as far as their origins go.

 

One of the biggest bugbears in this context is how radically they've changed over the decades. Batman (and to a lesser extent Daredevil) both got major reworkings by Frank Miller. Batman was originally the Detective. He was a pure science guy, using the scientific method to track down criminals and put them behind bars. He was born in an era where people thought reason would trump chaos (the Joker) and so wasn't necessarily super-powered per se, but had a ton of cool stuff allowing him to thwart the evil schemes of the most nefarious.

 

Similarly Daredevil who in his earliest iteration was little more than a poor-man's Spidey, his loss of sight compensated with a radar sense and a billy club held together with magical string (something never really explained.)

 

Miller took both of those and effectively turned them into ninja warriors, honing their bodies into ultimate fighting machines, supreme athletes to compliment their existing back storied powers. It's hard to see how those latter iterations can be anything other than natural origin - so do we take the above examples as science, augmented by natural ability, or do we take them as natural characters who uses science to get the job done? If we take a snapshot of the characters in their history we might end up with something very different to our common perception.

 

This last year's Olympics gives another interesting example: Yusuf Dikec. in a field where most contestants had all kinds of tech, the best pistol, eye glasses that blanked out an eye, visors to block distractions, he rocks up with nothing, shoves a hand in his pocket and wins a silver medal. The other contestants used tech for their advantage and he is clearly natural origin.

 

Origins, like the alignment system in D&D is a great mechanic but it can be limiting and pigeon-hole characters - it has a great advantage in terms of RP and back story, it rounds the character out wonderfully, but in terms of actual game play it's rarely useful, and it can be  a bit more constraining rather than a benefit at times.

[Ulysses Dare]

9 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Miller took both of those and effectively turned them into ninja warriors, honing their bodies into ultimate fighting machines, supreme athletes to compliment their existing back storied powers.

I'm not a Daredevil fan, so I can't speak to him, but Batman was being presented as both a superb athlete and a master martial artist long before Frank Miller.

[DoctorDitko]

Yep. Check out Englehart and Rogers' run. Classic.

[TalynDerre]

On 1/11/2025 at 6:17 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

This last year's Olympics gives another interesting example: Yusuf Dikec. in a field where most contestants had all kinds of tech, the best pistol, eye glasses that blanked out an eye, visors to block distractions, he rocks up with nothing, shoves a hand in his pocket and wins a silver medal. The other contestants used tech for their advantage and he is clearly natural origin.

 

I was actually using this as an example the other day, when explaining 'origins' to a friend who doesn't play City of Heroes.

[Stormwalker]

On 1/6/2025 at 11:51 PM, Techwright said:

How much technology does it take before a Natural Origin should be considered a Technological Origin?

 

Iron-Man is pretty obvious.  He's got the brilliant mind, and may have learned a few natural moves along the way, but he's almost entirely reliant on the power suit or components of it.

 

What of Batman or Green Hornet, though?  Both use tricked-out cars, and Batman has other tricked out rides as well.  Batman heavily uses his utility belt and costume elements incorporating technology (which varies in the re-tellings).  Green Hornet, though the number of his gizmos is fewer, uses both a special gas pellet gun and a custom "Sting", basically a heavy duty taser in either gun or rod form.   Yet both are skilled hand-to-hand fighters with no modifications to their bodies (like cybernetics).  Where do these considerations land them?

 

I'm reminded of Batman, during the Knightsend arc, calling out Jean-Paul Valley for relying on his fancy suit way too much.

 

Azbats:  And what do you rely on?

Batman slams the sliding doors shut on Azbats' arms, then clocks him

Batman: Whatever is at hand.

 

Azbats was a Tech Origin.  Batman is a Natural Origin.

 

Batman relies primarily on his mind and his superb combat skills, which he put himself through Training from Hell to develop.  The gadges are accessories to those skills.

 

Similarly, Spider-Man (I'm referring to the original Peter Parker here)  is a science origin even though he uses a lot of gadgets (like his web shooters) extensively.  This is because what allows him to be Spider-Man is the power he got from the radioactive spider bite.  Everything else, even the web shooters (as iconic as they are) is just an augmentation of that.

Edited January 14 by Stormwalker