Death Penalty

[Xion80]

Running through mission is "easy work" when you have nothing to fear after defeat. Oh look, I click the rez and get back to my feet, as if I wasn't just on the brink of death! Their should be heavy penalties for not only repetitive use of rez in a missions. But stacking debuff for multiple hospitals visits.

 

Regenerative powers/enhancements could receive more value, closing the gap on the mitigation scale. They could target these specific debuff, lowering, or flat out negating the time it takes to recover. Something resistance and defense couldn't do. These are some examples of the debuffs to name a few.

 

Concussion: Recharge debuff and protection debuff. Endurance debuff. 

 

Broken Bones: Resistance debuff. Damage debuff.

 

Lacerations: Constant DoT debuff.

 

3rd degree burns: DDR debuff. Healing debuff. 

 

Damaged Armor: Endurance cost increase for toggles.

 

Poisoned: Regen debuff. Maxhp debuff. End debuff.

 

Each could be tied to a specific damage type. No, all debuffs wouldn't hit you at the same time. For example. If you were defeated by a toxic attack, and used rez. You would be hit with the Poisoned debuff penalty. You would receive ONE of the debuffs from poisoned category for a time frame.  If you fall again to toxic attack, you get the next random poisoned debuff, and the timer increases. Every hospital visit becomes less effective as you're not following the doctor's orders. Health restores at lower increments every visit 100/75/50/25. (Opens the door to sophisticated  Super Groups medical equipment regular hospitals don't have.)

 

Team wipes should come with a penalty as well. Did your team of 8 get squished by the map? All enemy mobs will receive a buff making their resolve stronger! Now that I think about it. Why isn't their a team wiped badge?

 

This option opens the door for great rewards for heroes who play in this game mode. X3 xp? X2 influence? Think of it as a "hard mode" for Pug or solo gaming journey. If team leader is playing in this mode. A prompt should appear, informing you about his settings.

 

 

 

 

[twozerofoxtrot]

Lol this is going to go over like a wet fart in a crowded elevator. 

[Xion80]

9 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Lol this is going to go over like a wet fart in a crowded elevator. 

Its optional. You don't have to join a player using that mode.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

This option opens the door for great rewards for heroes who play in this game mode. X3 xp? X2 influence? Think of it as a "hard mode" for Pug or solo gaming journey. If team leader is playing in this mode. A prompt should appear, informing you about his settings.

 

I *think* I trimmed out the fluff to get to the crunch.

 

The Homecoming game itself already offers pretty "great rewards" for not much effort, *and* includes mechanisms to make the game harder without adding penalties for being defeated. "Harder" content does offer more rewards: sometimes it is as simple as more drops and more XP/Inf for xN content, sometimes it's a special type of  enhancement, recipe or component or a unique power. This is me trying to say: The game is already very generous, why should it be even more generous for this specific type of play?

 

Now, about the idea of players "getting worse" for getting rezzed... this strikes me as a sort of escalating feedback that would make the game a lot less fun. Bluntly: I remember what it was like on Live when there was essentially no ceiling to debt, and also what it was like to go through mission arcs with things like "Vahzilok Wasting Disease". One of the more enjoyable aspects of CoX (to me, anyway) is that defeat inspires can offer the chance to change strategic approach without also adding a debuff for trying the original strategy.

[MaxEternal]

I love using my blaster like a tanker and relying on “Rise of the Phoenix” to bail me out anytime I get in over my head.  
 

 

[Frozen Burn]

3 hours ago, Xion80 said:

Running through mission is "easy work" when you have nothing to fear after defeat. Oh look, I click the rez and get back to my feet, as if I wasn't just on the brink of death! Their should be heavy penalties for not only repetitive use of rez in a missions. But stacking debuff for multiple hospitals visits.

 

Regenerative powers/enhancements could receive more value, closing the gap on the mitigation scale. They could target these specific debuff, lowering, or flat out negating the time it takes to recover. Something resistance and defense couldn't do. These are some examples of the debuffs to name a few.

 

Concussion: Recharge debuff and protection debuff. Endurance debuff. 

 

Broken Bones: Resistance debuff. Damage debuff.

 

Lacerations: Constant DoT debuff.

 

3rd degree burns: DDR debuff. Healing debuff. 

 

Damaged Armor: Endurance cost increase for toggles.

 

Poisoned: Regen debuff. Maxhp debuff. End debuff.

 

Each could be tied to a specific damage type. No, all debuffs wouldn't hit you at the same time. For example. If you were defeated by a toxic attack, and used rez. You would be hit with the Poisoned debuff penalty. You would receive ONE of the debuffs from poisoned category for a time frame.  If you fall again to toxic attack, you get the next random poisoned debuff, and the timer increases. Every hospital visit becomes less effective as you're not following the doctor's orders. Health restores at lower increments every visit 100/75/50/25. (Opens the door to sophisticated  Super Groups medical equipment regular hospitals don't have.)

 

Team wipes should come with a penalty as well. Did your team of 8 get squished by the map? All enemy mobs will receive a buff making their resolve stronger! Now that I think about it. Why isn't their a team wiped badge?

 

This option opens the door for great rewards for heroes who play in this game mode. X3 xp? X2 influence? Think of it as a "hard mode" for Pug or solo gaming journey. If team leader is playing in this mode. A prompt should appear, informing you about his settings.

 

 

 

 

 

Umm... no.  Just no.   I get the concept and appreciate where you are coming from.  However, if you're making multiple trips to the hospital or using rez inspires or self rez powers, then you are already doing difficult content - even if it's "normal" content and not "hard mode" content.  Then you are just making it worse and worse for you to succeed causing a cascade of failure.  And if you are on Hard Mode content - where multiple deaths and team wipes are almost certain - you're making it practically impossible to succeed at all.  

 

Your concept also penalizes squishie ATs the most - as they are the ones who die more frequently compared to tanks, brutes, and other armored ATs.  Who gets their debt badges first?  Blasters!  Controllers, Defenders, Corrs, and Doms to follow.   It's not fair for these ATs to suffer cascade failures more frequently than others for what is supposed to be "normal" game play.  Incurring XP debt is bad enough, but at least it's a way to get badges.  I know some players who play squishies who will run and leave their team's side at the first sign of difficult trouble because they REFUSE to incur XP debt.  lol  

 

The only way something like this could be implemented is there being a limit to only 1 debuff applied at a time and it replaces incurring the debt penalty.  You get your 1 and then that's it until it wears off.  However, if you get defeated again while you still have the debuff, then you start incurring debt penalty again for each defeat.  

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm gonna have to say no. You want to penalize players for dying, while giving extra rewards to those who don't as an optional perk for essentially normal gameplay.

 

There's players out there, including myself who can often count on 1 hand the number of times we've died on a toon's journey up to incarnate IO'd out gods, and then we only ever die again is if we're doing something stupid or playing 4 star content or Linea's 801 series on high settings like F and up.

 

So once again I have to say no, because people like me will just use it to milk extra rewards while playing. We shouldn't penalize weaker players either.

[Seed22]

4 hours ago, Xion80 said:

Running through mission is "easy work" when you have nothing to fear after defeat. Oh look, I click the rez and get back to my feet, as if I wasn't just on the brink of death! Their should be heavy penalties for not only repetitive use of rez in a missions. But stacking debuff for multiple hospitals visits.

 

Regenerative powers/enhancements could receive more value, closing the gap on the mitigation scale. They could target these specific debuff, lowering, or flat out negating the time it takes to recover. Something resistance and defense couldn't do. These are some examples of the debuffs to name a few.

 

Concussion: Recharge debuff and protection debuff. Endurance debuff. 

 

Broken Bones: Resistance debuff. Damage debuff.

 

Lacerations: Constant DoT debuff.

 

3rd degree burns: DDR debuff. Healing debuff. 

 

Damaged Armor: Endurance cost increase for toggles.

 

Poisoned: Regen debuff. Maxhp debuff. End debuff.

 

Each could be tied to a specific damage type. No, all debuffs wouldn't hit you at the same time. For example. If you were defeated by a toxic attack, and used rez. You would be hit with the Poisoned debuff penalty. You would receive ONE of the debuffs from poisoned category for a time frame.  If you fall again to toxic attack, you get the next random poisoned debuff, and the timer increases. Every hospital visit becomes less effective as you're not following the doctor's orders. Health restores at lower increments every visit 100/75/50/25. (Opens the door to sophisticated  Super Groups medical equipment regular hospitals don't have.)

 

Team wipes should come with a penalty as well. Did your team of 8 get squished by the map? All enemy mobs will receive a buff making their resolve stronger! Now that I think about it. Why isn't their a team wiped badge?

 

This option opens the door for great rewards for heroes who play in this game mode. X3 xp? X2 influence? Think of it as a "hard mode" for Pug or solo gaming journey. If team leader is playing in this mode. A prompt should appear, informing you about his settings.

 

 

 

 

So YOU’re the new Diantane(or however his name was spelled).

 

This should be fun.

 

Addressing the suggestion, you’re trying to turn CoH into PoE2. I assume that’s where you’re getting these ideas from. It won’t work and is bad from the onset. It, as others have said, unfairly punishes leveling squish ATs thus forcing team comps that are basically like HM; 7 corrs and a tank. This would make the game boring af just like bland ass HM. 
 

Also it goes against the core of CoH, which I admit is a bad core thanks to it incentivizing dunning Kruger effect(look in game and  on these forums to see what that is) , but it’s still the core; a laid back turn your brain off power fantasy training wheels MMO that eases you into playing other more advanced MMOs by giving you the basics of what MMOs are. Or at least that’s one interpretation of it.

Edited 5 hours ago by Seed22

[Xion80]

13 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

So YOU’re the new Diantane(or however his name was spelled).

 

This should be fun.

 

Addressing the suggestion, you’re trying to turn CoH into PoE2. I assume that’s where you’re getting these ideas from. It won’t work and is bad from the onset. It, as others have said, unfairly punishes leveling squish ATs thus forcing team comps that are basically like HM; 7 corrs and a tank. This would make the game boring af just like bland ass HM. 
 

Also it goes against the core of CoH, which I admit is a bad core thanks to it incentivizing dunning Kruger effect(look in game and  on these forums to see what that is) , but it’s still the core; a laid back turn your brain off power fantasy training wheels MMO that eases you into playing other more advanced MMOs by giving you the basics of what MMOs are. Or at least that’s one interpretation of it.

Woah! I don't know who that is, or what PoE2 is.  This is a suggestion box where I dropped a suggestion. It wouldn't "punish" anyone. As I've already stated it's a game mode. A choice. Nobody is being forced to do anything.

 

If you don't like it, thats cool.  I can respect that. What I don't respect is toxic/witty/snarky banter. Implying I'm some annoyance you've had to deal with just because I dropped a suggestion is asinine.

[Xion80]

2 hours ago, MaxEternal said:

I love using my blaster like a tanker and relying on “Rise of the Phoenix” to bail me out anytime I get in over my head.  
 

 

Nothing forces you to play in that mode. It's no different then turning on a perma death mode. You can still play however you enjoy.

[Seed22]

5 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

Woah! I don't know who that is, or what PoE2 is.  This is a suggestion box where I dropped a suggestion. It wouldn't "punish" anyone. As I've already stated it's a game mode. A choice. Nobody is being forced to do anything.

 

If you don't like it, thats cool.  I can respect that. What I don't respect is toxic/witty/snarky banter. Implying I'm some annoyance you've had to deal with just because I dropped a suggestion is asinine.

My bad, it was a poorly done joke. I don’t want to be like the usual gatekeepers here on this forum so my apologies there.

 

But the rest of my response kind of gives the “why” even if it’s a voluntary mode that this won’t necessarily yield the results you’re looking for. I myself have made mechanics driven suggestions only to come to realize this game does not have a very uhm…mechanically inclined playerbase, to try and put it nicely? You gotta know your audience. This audience likes easy street, which I do not hold against them! 
 

A lot don’t even like the bare minimum mechanics in HM as is. This is a way rougher version of that.

 

*PoE2 is path of exile 2. A wanna be soulslike  seasonal ARPG 

Edited 4 hours ago by Seed22

[Xion80]

5 hours ago, Xion80 said:

Running through mission is "easy work" when you have nothing to fear after defeat. Oh look, I click the rez and get back to my feet, as if I wasn't just on the brink of death! Their should be heavy penalties for not only repetitive use of rez in a missions. But stacking debuff for multiple hospitals visits.

 

Regenerative powers/enhancements could receive more value, closing the gap on the mitigation scale. They could target these specific debuff, lowering, or flat out negating the time it takes to recover. Something resistance and defense couldn't do. These are some examples of the debuffs to name a few.

 

Concussion: Recharge debuff and protection debuff. Endurance debuff. 

 

Broken Bones: Resistance debuff. Damage debuff.

 

Lacerations: Constant DoT debuff.

 

3rd degree burns: DDR debuff. Healing debuff. 

 

Damaged Armor: Endurance cost increase for toggles.

 

Poisoned: Regen debuff. Maxhp debuff. End debuff.

 

Each could be tied to a specific damage type. No, all debuffs wouldn't hit you at the same time. For example. If you were defeated by a toxic attack, and used rez. You would be hit with the Poisoned debuff penalty. You would receive ONE of the debuffs from poisoned category for a time frame.  If you fall again to toxic attack, you get the next random poisoned debuff, and the timer increases. Every hospital visit becomes less effective as you're not following the doctor's orders. Health restores at lower increments every visit 100/75/50/25. (Opens the door to sophisticated  Super Groups medical equipment regular hospitals don't have.)

 

Team wipes should come with a penalty as well. Did your team of 8 get squished by the map? All enemy mobs will receive a buff making their resolve stronger! Now that I think about it. Why isn't their a team wiped badge?

 

This option opens the door for great rewards for heroes who play in this game mode. X3 xp? X2 influence? Think of it as a "hard mode" for Pug or solo gaming journey. If team leader is playing in this mode. A prompt should appear, informing you about his settings.

 

 

 

 

"This option opens the door for great rewards for heroes who play in this game mode." In case you missed it.

[Lazarillo]

So what you're saying is, you don't like to challenge yourself and you resent it when your teammates try to do so as well?

Because dying in this game simply means you were actually testing the limits of your abilities.

[Xion80]

4 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

So what you're saying is, you don't like to challenge yourself and you resent it when your teammates try to do so as well?

Because dying in this game simply means you were actually testing the limits of your abilities.

What I'm saying is I want consequences. I ran in before the tank/brute and got dropped. I got back up, but I have a broken arm now for my actions. Battle scars from a well earned victory. I'll get better, but my foes won't. Let me port to my SG base so I can recover faster. Hospital equipment can't fix my kind of injuries as my physiology is to complicated, or impervious to their tech.

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, Xion80 said:

heavy penalties for not only repetitive use of rez in a missions. But stacking debuff for multiple hospitals visits.

 

This would punish players for other players' mistakes, underpowered builds, lack of teamwork and/or inexperience.  It would also open a door for griefing (deliberately getting teammates killed so they'd be debuffed or forced to rez, pulling large groups and abandoning teams, kiting over-leveled foes onto heroes/villains in open zones), and critically devalue numerous powers.

 

Only an idiot would put something like this in an MMORPG.

[Lazarillo]

2 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

What I'm saying is I want consequences. I ran in before the tank/brute and got dropped. I got back up, but I have a broken arm now for my actions

So then how about consequences for the lazy tank who let you get ahead of them.  They should start getting tubby from the lack of effort they're putting in.  Or that cowardly brute should start losing the ability to control their fear and suffer a sporadic Terrorize effect as it overwhelms them.

[Xion80]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

 

I *think* I trimmed out the fluff to get to the crunch.

 

The Homecoming game itself already offers pretty "great rewards" for not much effort, *and* includes mechanisms to make the game harder without adding penalties for being defeated. "Harder" content does offer more rewards: sometimes it is as simple as more drops and more XP/Inf for xN content, sometimes it's a special type of  enhancement, recipe or component or a unique power. This is me trying to say: The game is already very generous, why should it be even more generous for this specific type of play?

 

Now, about the idea of players "getting worse" for getting rezzed... this strikes me as a sort of escalating feedback that would make the game a lot less fun. Bluntly: I remember what it was like on Live when there was essentially no ceiling to debt, and also what it was like to go through mission arcs with things like "Vahzilok Wasting Disease". One of the more enjoyable aspects of CoX (to me, anyway) is that defeat inspires can offer the chance to change strategic approach without also adding a debuff for trying the original strategy.

Ah! I remember the rough days of the Hollows and I loved every minute of it! It brought value to my first experience with CoH, and an attachment to my first toon. It was an accomplishment to survive reaching lvl 20 and not delete a toon! Yeah, I was here before AE. That debt made me work even harder! Maybe that's why I'm so attached to Regen secondary. 😅

 

Yes, the game is "easy mode" these days and thats great. I just wanted the option to have pineapples on my pizza this time.

[Xion80]

3 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

So then how about consequences for the lazy tank who let you get ahead of them.  They should start getting tubby from the lack of effort they're putting in.  Or that cowardly brute should start losing the ability to control their fear and suffer a sporadic Terrorize effect as it overwhelms them.

So the tank is "lazy " because you ran left on a solo mission, when the team went right? I only mean defeat consequences. Your convo went somewhere else, so I'll leave you to it.

[Xion80]

8 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

This would punish players for other players' mistakes, underpowered builds, lack of teamwork and/or inexperience.  It would also open a door for griefing (deliberately getting teammates killed so they'd be debuffed or forced to rez, pulling large groups and abandoning teams, kiting over-leveled foes onto heroes/villains in open zones), and critically devalue numerous powers.

 

Only an idiot would put something like this in an MMORPG.

From all those situations you mentioned. It sounds like those doors are already open.  Everyone isn't a toxic player. Least of all CoX. 

[Xion80]

15 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

This would punish players for other players' mistakes, underpowered builds, lack of teamwork and/or inexperience.  It would also open a door for griefing (deliberately getting teammates killed so they'd be debuffed or forced to rez, pulling large groups and abandoning teams, kiting over-leveled foes onto heroes/villains in open zones), and critically devalue numerous powers.

 

Only an idiot would put something like this in an MMORPG.

Also, only an idiot would turn on that game mode when they have no clue as a new player. It would be no different then turning on +4 ×8 at lvl one. Your argument is unrealistic. CoX community test EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM before any final implementation into the game. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Xion80
Added a statement

[Lazarillo]

2 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

I only mean defeat consequences.

And I'm asking why you think players who make an effort should suffer "consequences", while the lazy players who are all-talk but are to chicken to actually challenge themselves should get rewarded.

[Xion80]

1 minute ago, Lazarillo said:

And I'm asking why you think players who make an effort should suffer "consequences", while the lazy players who are all-talk but are to chicken to actually challenge themselves should get rewarded.

They won't get rewarded if the mode is off. They will be in normal mode. Only one in a "high risk, high reward" situation is the player with it turned on.

[Lazarillo]

1 minute ago, Xion80 said:

"high risk, high reward"

But you're asking for a system that's designed only to reward players for not taking risks.

[Xion80]

Nothing has stopped you, or many other players from pulling up on mobs knowing your build isnt in order. Knowing you're not a brute or tank. Knowing you don't have soft cap defense. I'm not following.

[Xion80]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

My bad, it was a poorly done joke. I don’t want to be like the usual gatekeepers here on this forum so my apologies there.

 

But the rest of my response kind of gives the “why” even if it’s a voluntary mode that this won’t necessarily yield the results you’re looking for. I myself have made mechanics driven suggestions only to come to realize this game does not have a very uhm…mechanically inclined playerbase, to try and put it nicely? You gotta know your audience. This audience likes easy street, which I do not hold against them! 
 

A lot don’t even like the bare minimum mechanics in HM as is. This is a way rougher version of that.

 

*PoE2 is path of exile 2. A wanna be soulslike  seasonal ARPG 

Gatekeeping sounds like a thing around here, but what exactly the folks you referenced Gatekeeping? It's a suggestion box. Intended to drop cool ideas for fun commentary. Many of these folks come off as angry, toxic, and snarky over nothing more than a grain of salt opinion.  

 

This game is easy mode now vs before AE. If they don't like it I get it. But why some stick around being shady after the fact? I won't say any names, as I'm sure you've spotted them many times over on the forums. Perhaps it's best for me to avoid the forums. Haven't engaged in chat since Arcanaville, and Werner live post on Regeneration.