Invulnerability/Super Strength Tanker Help (Inv/SS Tank)

[JackBaldy]

Originally I played most of my time prior to the crafting update, so I'm not too well versed on things like the crafting system or the incarnate system. I've been putting off making a proper build for this character because the thought of spending millions on the wrong thing makes me feel somewhat anxious.

 

I've decided to come to the forums for perhaps guidance in the right direction. Down below I'll post my current non-set IOs build so you folks can get an idea of what kind of character I'm playing. I've looked around online to see for builds, but I didn't really see one that incorporated Hover+Fly+Combat Jumping all in one build.

 

I imagine it might not be the most efficient? I like to use Hover+Fly to get around target to target, and I will also use Combat Jumping when combat travel power suppression is active to get to targets faster (On top of just having it on for defense). I noticed that Combat Jumping also makes Fly behave slightly different (Faster acceleration and turning, for example), so that's nice as well when activating Fly but not having Hover on just yet.

 

I do also use Taunt. I know that there are some Tankers that forego getting Taunt, but I like the utility of Taunt and I think it goes hand in hand with the other tools that gather aggro.

 

One other thing I'd like to add is that I generally do all sorts of content and not just 50+, so I imagine that going for Attuned enhancements is the way to go? Anyhow, all help is appreciated. o.o

 

Boundless Baldy: Level 50 Mutation Class_Tanker

Character Profile:
------------------
Level 1: Inherent Inherent Brawl
    Crafted_Accuracy (45)
Level 1: Inherent Inherent prestige_DVD_Glidep
    Crafted_Jump (50)
Level 1: Inherent Inherent Sprint
    Mutation_Endurance_Discount (53)
Level 2: Inherent Inherent Rest
    Crafted_Interrupt (50)
Level 1: Inherent Inherent prestige_generic_Sprintp
    Crafted_Jump (50)
Level 1: Inherent Inherent prestige_BestBuy_Sprintp
    Crafted_Jump (50)
Level 1: Inherent Inherent prestige_EB_Sprintp
    Crafted_Jump (50)
Level 1: Inherent Inherent prestige_Gamestop_Sprintp
    Crafted_Jump (50)
Level 1: Inherent Fitness Swift
    Mutation_Fly (53)
Level 1: Inherent Fitness Hurdle
    Crafted_Jump (50)
Level 1: Inherent Fitness Health
    Crafted_Heal (50)
Level 1: Inherent Fitness Stamina
    Crafted_Recovery (50)
    Crafted_Recovery (50)
    Crafted_Recovery (50)
Level 1: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Temp_Invulnerability
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
Level 2: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Resist_Physical_Damage
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
Level 6: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Resist_Elements
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
Level 8: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Unyeilding_Stance
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
Level 12: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Resist_Energies
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (50)
Level 18: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Invincibility
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Crafted_ToHit_Buff (50)
    Crafted_ToHit_Buff (50)
Level 22: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Tough_Hide
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
Level 32: Tanker_Defense Invulnerability Dull_Pain
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
Level 1: Tanker_Melee Super_Strength Jab
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
Level 4: Tanker_Melee Super_Strength Punch
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
Level 10: Tanker_Melee Super_Strength Taunt
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
Level 20: Tanker_Melee Super_Strength Knockout_Blow
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
Level 24: Tanker_Melee Super_Strength Haymaker
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
Level 35: Tanker_Melee Super_Strength Foot_Stomp
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
Level 47: Tanker_Melee Super_Strength Rage
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
Level 14: Pool Flight Combat_Flight
    Mutation_Endurance_Discount (53)
Level 16: Pool Flight Fly
    Mutation_Fly (52)
Level 0: Pool Flight Fly_Boost
Level 26: Pool Fighting Boxing
    Crafted_Accuracy (50)
Level 28: Pool Fighting Tough
    Mutation_Endurance_Discount (53)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Crafted_Res_Damage (45)
    Mutation_Endurance_Discount (53)
Level 30: Pool Fighting Weave
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Mutation_Defense_Buff (53)
    Crafted_Endurance_Discount (50)
Level 38: Pool Leaping Combat_Jumping
    Crafted_Jump (50)
Level 41: Epic Energy_Mastery Conserve_Power
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
Level 44: Epic Energy_Mastery Laser_Beam_Eyes
    Mutation_Endurance_Discount (53)
    Mutation_Accuracy (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Damage (53)
    Mutation_Accuracy (53)
Level 49: Pool Speed Hasten
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
    Crafted_Recharge (50)
Level 50: Redirects Inherents Gauntlet_Proc
------------------

 

[Maelwys]

5 hours ago, JackBaldy said:

I've looked around online to see for builds, but I didn't really see one that incorporated Hover+Fly+Combat Jumping all in one build.

Here's a slightly shuffled variant of one of my builds that might work.
zTanker - INV_SS (Hover).mbd

With one foe in Invincibility range and no incarnate clickies running it looks like this this:




The Superior Might of Tanker Proc (assuming you're using KO Blow on cooldown) will be adding another 6.7-20.1% resistance to all on top of that.

 

 

Regarding the attuned vs non-attuned enhancements question... it depends. Generally you'll want to attune all your "globals" (check this list to see what counts as a global and what counts as a proc) but whether regular IO enhancements (Set IOs and Common Crafted Enhancements) are better attuned or boosted will depend on your current level as per https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements#Details and also on whether or not the set bonuses they grant are vitally important to your performance. Personally I almost always just boost them (unless they contain recharge enhancement aspect and the power they're in has lots of damage procs).

Procs don't care about attunement; and Universal Damage and Archetype Enhancements are "pre attuned". PVP set enhancements and Very Rare (Purple) set enhancements can technically be attuned but they don't gain any benefit from it, so you'll always want to boost those.

 

Edited March 22 by Maelwys

[Biff Pow]

I don't use Hover but my build does have Combat Jumping, and also Spring Attack, which is a fun way to leap into a group of enemies. I keep it pretty simple- Unbreakable Guard in Resist powers, Shield Wall in Defense, purple sets in attacks, plus the usual +Def, +Res, +Regen, etc. IOs. Only 50% in Recharge bonuses (I find chasing more makes very little difference) but also 80% resistance to recharge debuffs.

 

Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

 

[JackBaldy]

Thanks for the responses. It seems like I have a lot to think about. I noticed the build Maelwys provided seems to focus a bit more on offense than usual? At least that's the vibe I get from the incarnate choices (Musculature, for example). One thing that might be concerning is the endurance management without something like Ageless?

 

Biff Pow, I see your build doesn't focus much on recharge like you stated (Lacking things like Hasten). I'm not sure how I feel about that. I generally like things Hasten to keep active, but perhaps the build makes up for it elsewhere?

 

Both builds seem to use Unstoppable as a mule power, presumably?

 

Definitely have to test things out in the test server, but the help is much appreciated. Much love. :D

[Maelwys]

3 hours ago, JackBaldy said:

the build Maelwys provided seems to focus a bit more on offense than usual? At least that's the vibe I get from the incarnate choices (Musculature, for example). One thing that might be concerning is the endurance management without something like Ageless?

...

Both builds seem to use Unstoppable as a mule power, presumably?

 

Musculature (or Intuition Radial) tends to be the goto Alpha(s) because of the Damage Enhancement boost which partially ignores the Enhancement Diversification limits.

However the rest of that build and its currently selected Incarnate choices is actually more defensive than offensive driven: Melee Hybrid, Rebirth Destiny, etc. and Energy Mastery for Focused Accuracy (the ToHit Debuff resistance it grants plus Rage means you have options when you're under heavy debuffage from a roomful of CoT ghosts etc). Whilst KO Blow, Footstomp and Cross Punch do have some damage Procs (as they're the most important attacks) there are defensive related procs and set bonuses mixed in there too.

 

Regarding endurance management... without Fly or Focused Accuracy active (and you really shouldn't be leaving them toggled on constantly anyway) you'll note it has a Net recovery of just over 2.5 Endurance per Second. For most toons anything over 2 is plenty. However since the toon doesn't rely on Barrier Core Destiny to get its mitigation capped you could certainly choose to run Ageless if you wanted to. INVs tend to gravitate towards Ageless Radial Destiny in harder content for its Defense Debuff Resistance anyway.

 

Unstoppable is a mule power, yes. The crash is pointlessly crippling for the benefit it grants especially since you'll be able to sit at the Resistance hardcaps to everything (including Psionic!) without it via Superior Might of Tanker Procs plus Melee Core Hybrid. It can very occasionally be situationally useful for its non-toggle-based Mez protection; but carrying a big breakfree inspiration does the same job better. I used to be a big fan of using Unstoppable way back when before inventions were a thing (managing to time Dull Pain to help pick yourself up from the crash came with bragging rights!) but these days it's really just there to contain an extra global.

 

Edited Sunday at 08:52 AM by Maelwys

[JackBaldy]

Appreciate the informative post. I'm kind of new to the whole test server thing, any recommendations on where I should take the build out for a spin?

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, JackBaldy said:

Appreciate the informative post. I'm kind of new to the whole test server thing, any recommendations on where I should take the build out for a spin?

 

Once you've it built (see here for how!) the easiest places to see its performance in action will be Monster Island (North of Portal Corp in Peregrine Island) for seeing how it copes vs monsters and/or large amounts of Smashing and Lethal damage... and the far North of the Rikti War Zone for groups of mixed damage Lv54 foes.

 

Then soloing an ITF might be a good idea to see how it copes versus Defence Debuffs.

 

Finally you can also check Architect Entertainment for any of the popular "Farming" maps (It'll cope just fine vs Smashing and Lethal damage critters without using any clicks) or even some of the 801 series if you really want to push things.

[JackBaldy]

Thanks for the continued input Maelwys! So I finally got on the Mids bandwagon and I loaded up your build (There was a database mismatch but I couldn't find a way to update the database so I assume you have a further build not released to the public? Anyhow, one thing was that for whatever reason, I couldn't get the defense numbers to match on the left side.

 

I assume it's something I'm doing wrong because I'm new to Mids, but I'm not sure what. For example, Psionic defense would be sitting at 19.6% instead of 20.1%. Any idea what's causing the discrepancy? Is it just the database mismatch?

 

Anycase, I noticed that you didn't have hover toggled on for the stat totals. That raises defense a little bit but also raises endurance cost. Going to have to see how that plays out once I get situated importing into the test server and what have you. Still new to this and taking it slowly, but you've been more than helpful. Thanks a bunch. 😄

 

Edit: Okay, I figured out the discrepancy. I had to set Invincibility to have 1 foe around. Afterwards it matched. o.o =D

Edited Monday at 08:37 AM by JackBaldy
Figured out issue with defense differences

[Maelwys]

3 hours ago, JackBaldy said:

Edit: Okay, I figured out the discrepancy. I had to set Invincibility to have 1 foe around. Afterwards it matched. o.o =D

 

Yeah unfortunately Mids has a consistent bug where if you load an Invulnerability build that already has Invincibility toggled on + set to X targets then it often won't actually include it in the defense totals. To get it working again you need to drop the target count to zero, turn Invincibility off and back on again, then finally up the target count to 1 again. It's annoying so I tend to set Invincibility to 0 targets and detoggle it before I hit the save button on my builds!

 

Don't worry about database mismatches, I poke at the backend of my copy of Mids a lot (re-fixing things like Protector Bot Bubbles) but it won't affect the values.

[Biff Pow]

On 3/22/2025 at 11:30 PM, JackBaldy said:

Biff Pow, I see your build doesn't focus much on recharge like you stated (Lacking things like Hasten). I'm not sure how I feel about that. I generally like things Hasten to keep active, but perhaps the build makes up for it elsewhere?

 

Hasten will knock another two seconds off of KO Blow and Footstomp when active, which isn't insignificant but also not game-changing. I just prefer only one click power with an endurance crash to pay attention to versus two.

[Zect]

  

On 3/22/2025 at 2:09 PM, JackBaldy said:

I've looked around online to see for builds, but I didn't really see one that incorporated Hover+Fly+Combat Jumping all in one build.

 

The reason is you can't use footstomp when flying (technically you can, but you have to be basically glued to the ground to do so, which most players can't be bothered to do). Therefore, taking fly on inv/ss effectively means -1 defense powers (no hover).

 

On 3/23/2025 at 4:28 PM, Maelwys said:

Musculature (or Intuition Radial) tends to be the goto Alpha(s) because of the Damage Enhancement boost which partially ignores the Enhancement Diversification limits.

 

For the case of inv/ss specifically, if you are trying to balance mitigation (and I include debuff res in here) and dps to any degree, it's very hard to beat agility + ageless.

 

(Also, Malewys builds are usually very sensible, but I react strongly to the idea of 5x Underwhelming Farce in boxing.)

 

[JackBaldy]

33 minutes ago, Zect said:

The reason is you can't use footstomp when flying (technically you can, but you have to be basically glued to the ground to do so, which most players can't be bothered to do). Therefore, taking fly on inv/ss effectively means -1 defense powers (no hover).

I use Foot Stomp all the time while also using Hover. You could argue there's a skill ceiling thing at play here when it comes to effectively using things like Hover + Fly + Combat Jumping + Foot Stomp in combat, but I don't think it's anything too outrageous mechanically speaking. :Shrugs: One thing that took some getting used to was that Hover and Fly are no longer mutually exclusive in Homecoming. Definitely interesting for sure though. 😄

 

The thing I personally like about Hover/Flying in combat is that one is more able to easily close the distance melee wise and obstacles aren't really a problem. Even when there's a lot of traffic, one can fly over teammates to attack enemies in melee range and other adjacent techniques. Super useful when taking on flying enemies as well. I like the idea of being the weapon as opposed to needing to do ranged attacks to ground enemies and then I can get to them. I do enjoy it thematically you could say. o.o

 

Super useful when scouting for mission objectives from a distance in the air as well and many other adjacent things. I'm just blabbing about my love for Hover and Flight at this point though. xD

 

33 minutes ago, Zect said:

For the case of inv/ss specifically, if you are trying to balance mitigation (and I include debuff res in here) and dps to any degree, it's very hard to beat agility + ageless.

 

(Also, Malewys builds are usually very sensible, but I react strongly to the idea of 5x Underwhelming Farce in boxing.)

 

Is there anything you'd recommend instead? o.o

Edited Tuesday at 07:41 AM by JackBaldy

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, Zect said:

 For the case of inv/ss specifically, if you are trying to balance mitigation (and I include debuff res in here) and dps to any degree, it's very hard to beat agility + ageless.

 

(Also, Malewys builds are usually very sensible, but I react strongly to the idea of 5x Underwhelming Farce in boxing.)

 

I get the jeebies taking Alphas with Recharge Aspect unless the toon isn't proccing their attacks out.

 

Boxing is a bit pants, yes, but with the base damage and utility boosts from taking both Kick and Cross Punch IIRC it becomes roughly on par with Punch; and having an extra ST attack at very low levels is situationally useful to fill a gap when exemplaring. OF's knockdown Proc has a little synergy with the other powers and its set bonuses, whilst comparatively underwhelming, are all useful for this build and got the toon's defence totals perfectly even (which my OCD really appreciates! 😁). The contents of its 6th slot might look rather funky too... but there isn't much recharge aspect in the power so a 4.5 PPM purple damage proc activates reasonably well despite its low base recharge (~21.5% chance); and since all the other ST attacks in the build are crammed full there really wasn't a better place to put it.

 

All that said, I think this toon (albeit a version with SJ instead of Fly) is the only one in my stable which uses more than one OF enhancement. Leaning into Knockdown is a bit of a throwback too - back on live it even had Air Superiority for a while!
 

Edited Tuesday at 10:03 AM by Maelwys

[Maelwys]

3 hours ago, JackBaldy said:

Is there anything you'd recommend instead? o.o

Boxing and Kick are primarily there as prerequisites + to ramp up Cross Punch's damage; if you drop one of them you'd also need to take Tough or drop Weave.

If you want to swap Boxing with Tough (drop Unstoppable + move its global to Tough) to try + fit a better ST attack in; go for it. But the power pool selections are already set here so you're really just left with Kick (switch its place with Boxing and potentially swap the last slot out for another Force Feedback Proc) and Jab (very "Meh").

Or just drop the notion entirely and use those slots elsewhere and/or pick up Hand Clap (for example).

Honestly the only attacks you'll actually end up using at higher levels on SS are Haymaker, KO Blow, Cross Punch and Foot Stomp (and with FF Procs going you can sometimes even forgo Haymaker). Rotating these in the above build provides consistent +Recharge, +Absorb and SMoT procs in addition to inflicting Knockdown, Hold and the very occasional Stun. So Boxing and Punch are both relegated to the role of "filler" attacks at lower levels or on those few occasions where using Footstomp is irrelevant... but I'd sooner use Boxing than Punch there due to its slightly better DPA and the (remote) chance to Stun-Stack with Cross Punch.
 

Edited Tuesday at 10:56 AM by Maelwys

[JackBaldy]

So Maelwys, I ended up trying your build on the test server. It's definitely an interesting build and very active. I was fighting Arachnos +4x8 and that just didn't really seem to be feasible without Ageless Core. I'm going to try Ageless Radial and perhaps other Incarnate combinations and see if I like certain things better.

 

Without Ageless, endurance was just sapped too much (Along with things like Rage and Hasten drops) to be feasible in the long run. It's possible perhaps I missed something in tactics or mechanics to avoid this, but just throwing it out there. Arachnos is general at +4x8 seem to be very strong with their psionic damage and general debuffs (Defense debuffs?). I'm always looking to improve character and player skill wise, so I'm going to test a few other things. o.o

[Maelwys]

On 3/26/2025 at 6:53 AM, JackBaldy said:

So Maelwys, I ended up trying your build on the test server. It's definitely an interesting build and very active. I was fighting Arachnos +4x8 and that just didn't really seem to be feasible without Ageless Core. I'm going to try Ageless Radial and perhaps other Incarnate combinations and see if I like certain things better.

 

The "overkill" Defense in Invincibility (since it softcaps you with just one foe in range) plus INVs native DDR should help you weather most Defense Debuffs without Ageless Radial; but there's nothing to stop you using it to smooth things out.

 

Whenever I play that toon I typically follow my oldskool Tank mentality from live of "jump into middle of a big mob and activate Footstomp, then jump into the middle of the next mob (and/or throw a Taunt at them) and wallop things until there are only a few upright foes left, then repeat" so I'll have a constant stream of nearby foes to ramp the numbers up on my Invincibility (and on my Melee Core Hybrid, should I choose to be running it over Assault). Endurance consumption isn't an issue with all the boosts from the globals, set bonuses and passive accolades (~2.5 Net End/Sec plus Panacea Procs) as long as I'm not running superfluous toggles like Focused Accuracy and my Travel Power and Sprint etc. during combat.

Using Combat Jumping and Hurdle for unsuppressed movement is a bit of a throwback in these days of Combat Teleport, but it's fun and thematic and it doesn't slow me down that much once the train gets rolling. However I'm honestly not sure if I'd be able to personally put up with the slowness of running Hover/Fly constantly during combat on a melee toon.

 

Regarding Arachnos specifically... they have a fair mixture of Toxic and Psychic typed attacks, which is where the hole lies in INV's defense. Ageless won't help with that, but Barrier (or even Rebirth) Destiny or Melee Core Hybrid will, as will simply bulldozing through the blighters and popping the resulting dropped Inspirations like candy. However you have more than one layer of mitigation: after your Defense there's still your Damage Resistances, MaxHP pool, Regeneration rate and Absorb buffs to get through and all the Knockdown spam (and occasional hold/stun) you're inflicting will slow them down. I personally haven't found them that bothersome. Now a mapful of Carnie Master Illusionists...? 🙈

 

Edited yesterday at 08:17 AM by Maelwys

[JackBaldy]

The issue with Arachnos is the endurance drain. Yeah, their Psi stuff does hurt if one is not careful at +4x8, but the drain at +4x8 doesn't seem manageable without Ageless Core from what I've tested. And by extension, the Carnival of Shadows also have their endurance drain as well, which can be a problem.

 

Overall, it seems like one would be too drained to keep the fight going and that's where Ageless Core would come in. While Ageless Core won't help directly with survivability, it's beneficial in keeping you in the fight as far as endurance is concerned. Having something like Rebirth going would do one no good if they have no endurance and all their toggles shut off. :Shrug:

 

The build definitely is click management heavy (Or at least that's when it performs at it's best from what I gather) with having to manage Hasten, Rage (Can be double stacked), Dull Pain, and Ageless Core. Not that it's a bad thing or anything, just something to consider. I noticed with the procing of Force Feedback on Footstomp you can perma Hasten and perma Dull Pain. That's nice.

 

The idea of hover in combat is not necessarily to always have it on irrespective of the situation, just switch to it to fight flying enemies, if you're not going to be moving too far (I.e. you fly towards an enemy and then turn off fly when you get to said enemy but keep hover), or if you have to move quickly, turn off hover and then combat jump to the next set of enemies or a foe that is out of reach far enough that getting to them with hover would be a problem/annoying. Going from group to group for example, once you're done with a group you can combat jump to the next group and even time when travel power suppression is done to fly+hover quickly to the next group.

 

Granted one would preferrably want a good set of binds to engage with that kind of playstyle. I don't really have much of an issue switching hover on and off when needed and turning on fly when that would be more beneficial, but I do understand that there's a learning curve. At the end of the day, to each, their own and all that.

 

Without hover, what's your alternative to engaging with flying enemies? Do you replace hover with a -fly power? Fight them with flight active?

 

Anyhow, I appreciate the responses. Much love. ❤️

[Maelwys]

41 minutes ago, JackBaldy said:

The issue with Arachnos is the endurance drain. Yeah, their Psi stuff does hurt if one is not careful at +4x8, but the drain at +4x8 doesn't seem manageable without Ageless Core from what I've tested. And by extension, the Carnival of Shadows also have their endurance drain as well, which can be a problem.

 

Overall, it seems like one would be too drained to keep the fight going and that's where Ageless Core would come in.

 

IIRC Arachnos Endurance Drain/-Recovery attacks are mostly Mu; and those are all flagged as Energy typed and so you'll be dodging the vast majority of them. The -Recovery debuff they inflict also tends to be quite low and short (e.g. -50% for 4 seconds) so it'll take a fair number of them hitting you to cause noteworthy trouble to your blue bar. Especially if you're getting Panacea procs and chugging Inspirations as you go.

It's certainly nothing that Ageless Radial (with the Debuff Resistance and +Rech; rather than the Recovery and +Rech) can't handle.

Tanker INV Resist Energies also grants 25% Endurance Drain and Recovery debuff resistance natively; which will stack nicely with Ageless Radial if required.
 

41 minutes ago, JackBaldy said:

Without hover, what's your alternative to engaging with flying enemies? Do you replace hover with a -fly power? Fight them with flight active?

Use Taunt. Its built-in -100% Range debuff will make them come towards you.

Or break line of sight (run behind the nearest Geometry like a corner) which does the same thing.

Alternatively: Jousting.
Jump up to them with an attack queued up; then let yourself drop back to the ground again and wallop them as you fall past.
After a few repeats of this eventually their AI will queue a melee attack up and they'll approach you themselves.

Technically you could also take Air Superiority or Hurl for the -Fly debuff... but I haven't bothered with that guff since circa issue 8.
 

Edited yesterday at 12:20 PM by Maelwys

[JackBaldy]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

 

IIRC Arachnos Endurance Drain/-Recovery attacks are mostly Mu; and those are all flagged as Energy typed and so you'll be dodging the vast majority of them. The -Recovery debuff they inflict also tends to be quite low and short (e.g. -50% for 4 seconds) so it'll take a fair number of them hitting you to cause noteworthy trouble to your blue bar. Especially if you're getting Panacea procs and chugging Inspirations as you go.

It's certainly nothing that Ageless Radial (with the Debuff Resistance and +Rech; rather than the Recovery and +Rech) can't handle.

Tanker INV Resist Energies also grants 25% Endurance Drain and Recovery debuff resistance natively; which will stack nicely with Ageless Radial if required.

 

 

I'll be honest, I think we may just have different standards as to what constitutes as endurance problems. I feel like our levels of activity may vary vastly or you're perhaps relying on having a tray full of blue candy. :Shrugs:

 

With Ageless Core, endurance isn't generally an issue even when non-stop attacking, including things like using Footstomp for the force feedback proc. Without it, even when not running things like hover, eventually the endurance train comes to an end. This is worst if you have enemies like the Carnival of Shadows that suck out endurance.

 

For Arachnos, it's not as bad given the defense and you can generally try to focus fire them (Although it's a balancing act with the Psi damage), but without Ageless Core there's only so much juice to go around.

 

Either that, or I messed up the build somehow. I did end up attuning every enhancement that I could (+5 boosted otherwise), but I don't see how that should effect things drastically when it comes to endurance.

 

Carnival of Shadows doesn't really seem like much trouble with your build if using Ageless Core and focusing on the Psi bosses when one can. They're super annoying though simply because the pet spam + phase shift spam. It's impossible to kill them super quickly just because one is waiting on the phase shift to end and trying to hit them in between all that, but they're largely not a threat to the player with your build.

 

Arachnos on the other hand can have some pretty strong initial burst attacks and continued hurt with more Psi damage. That seems to hurt just about any build though with some of their strong burst attacks, so just something to be careful for.

 

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

Use Taunt. Its built-in -100% Range debuff will make them come towards you.

Or break line of sight (run behind the nearest Geometry like a corner) which does the same thing.

Alternatively: Jousting.
Jump up to them with an attack queued up; then let yourself drop back to the ground again and wallop them as you fall past.
After a few repeats of this eventually their AI will queue a melee attack up and they'll approach you themselves.

Technically you could also take Air Superiority or Hurl for the -Fly debuff... but I haven't bothered with that guff since circa issue 8.

 

Fair enough. The jumping tactic takes a halt when enemies ground you, but that also effects flight. I heard Hurl got buffed at some point during live, but I haven't tried out the new Hurl. I've only ever tried out the old Hurl and wasn't the biggest fan. :Shrugs:

 

The idea of taking Air Superiority seems good in my head, but I'm not sure how that'd fit into a build and if Air Superiority is any good at this point in time as far balance. Wasn't the greatest attack back in the day, but it was one of those training wheels powers that I used in the early days when I was figuring things out in the early issues.

[Snarky]

here is a Hyperstrike MoDurable build.  Hyperstrike is sick right now, but his work is legendary!

Tank Invul SS Hyperstrike MO Durable.mbd

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, JackBaldy said:

 

I'll be honest, I think we may just have different standards as to what constitutes as endurance problems. I feel like our levels of activity may vary vastly or you're perhaps relying on having a tray full of blue candy. :Shrugs:

Might be a mixture of both.

With no superfluous toggles and averaged Panacea procs you'll have a net recovery of 2.895 End/Sec. Footstomp on autofire in the above build will consume an average of 1.47 End/Sec without FF procs and 1.74 End/Sec with procs; leaving plenty for doing other things. If you're going balls to the wall using a constant attack chain of KOB > CP > HM > FS > CP > HM (note: both Haymakers are optional depending on your current recharge buffs - you can almost always drop the first even without Ageless) then you'll eventually bottom out after roughly 65 seconds of attacking flat out; assuming no inspirations or external recovery buffs.

I would consider a toon that's self-sufficient for anything over 60secs of "full out attacking" without Incarnate clickies or Insps to be in a very good place endurancewise.
My VEAT Widow can run themselves dry in roughly 30 seconds and is the only toon which I always run Ageless Core constantly.

Regarding playstyle... about the only thing that might apply is that I tend to pop Lore Pets regularly whenever I'm soloing to speed things up (and the typical one I use for my INV/SS is Radial Banished Pantheon - which have about a 50% uptime on this) and my movement keybinds all have "$$inspexec_slot 5" on the end of them (with Rez Insp drops disabled) to keep the skittles flowing. But I do that on all toons, not just Tankers. 

[EDIT]: And one last thing actually - whilst the above build is very close to what I'm running; I don't take the flight pool. So Fly is replaced with Mighty Leap; and Hover is replaced with Physical Perfection (slotted with another Power Transfer proc) therefore my own Tanker has a little bit more passive recovery: ~0.24 End/Sec.

  

1 hour ago, JackBaldy said:

The idea of taking Air Superiority seems good in my head, but I'm not sure how that'd fit into a build and if Air Superiority is any good at this point in time as far balance. Wasn't the greatest attack back in the day, but it was one of those training wheels powers that I used in the early days when I was figuring things out in the early issues.

AFAIK it's just as pants now as it's always been.

Many many moons ago; loooooong before inventions my old Katana/Regen Scrapper main used to swear by it (along with Laser Beam Eyes) partly because of the 100% KD effect; and partly because at the time having a few attacks that didn't inflict Lethal damage sounded like a good idea for fighting Robotic critters 🙈
 

Edited 21 hours ago by Maelwys

[JackBaldy]

 

16 minutes ago, Snarky said:

here is a Hyperstrike MoDurable build.  Hyperstrike is sick right now, but his work is legendary!

Tank Invul SS Hyperstrike MO Durable.mbd 45.2 kB · 0 downloads

 

I've tried this build and it's a really solid build as far as surviving is concerned. Rune of Protection works great in the build for extra survivability. There are some things that I'm sure there's a reason but I'm not sure about.

 

Like why not have chance for absorb on Char? Is it redundant and doesn't stack? Going with Maneuvers and Assault, I'm assuming because there's nothing better to get at that point?

 

Overall, it's a really good build I'm just not sure how I feel about it thematically with things like Char and Arcane Bolt. It is on the slower side when it comes to damage and I'm assuming that jab can't be easily replaced with punch just based on the recharge (Don't think punch would be able to maintain the same attack chain with that builds recharge).

 

One thing that scares me is that the build seems like it would be on the pricey side. Although I'm not 100% sure on that. Testing things a lot before I spend my influence. >.<

 

In any case, thanks for posting the build. You were the person I got it from before as well. 😄

23 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Might be a mixture of both.

With no superfluous toggles and averaged Panacea procs you'll have a net recovery of 2.895 End/Sec. Footstomp on autofire in the above build will consume an average of 1.47 End/Sec without FF procs and 1.74 End/Sec with procs; leaving plenty for doing other things. If you're going balls to the wall using a constant attack chain of KOB > CP > HM > FS > CP > HM (note: both Haymakers are optional depending on your current recharge buffs - you can almost always drop the first even without Ageless) then you'll eventually bottom out after roughly 65 seconds of attacking flat out; assuming no inspirations or external recovery buffs.

I would consider a toon that's self-sufficient for anything over 60secs of "full out attacking" without Incarnate clickies or Insps to be in a very good place endurancewise.
My VEAT Widow can run themselves dry in roughly 30 seconds and is the only toon which I always run Ageless Core constantly.

Regarding playstyle... about the only thing that might apply is that I tend to pop Lore Pets regularly whenever I'm soloing to speed things up (and the typical one I use for my INV/SS is Radial Banished Pantheon - which have about a 50% uptime on this) and my movement keybinds all have "$$inspexec_slot 5" on the end of them (with Rez Insp drops disabled) to keep the skittles flowing. But I do that on all toons, not just Tankers. 

  

AFAIK it's just as pants now as it's always been.

Many many moons ago; loooooong before inventions my old Katana/Regen Scrapper main used to swear by it (along with Laser Beam Eyes) partly because of the 100% KD effect; and partly because at the time having a few attacks that didn't inflict Lethal damage sounded like a good idea for fighting Robotic critters 🙈

 

Well the thing is that those 60+ seconds don't include Hasten and Rage crashes or external debuffs/drains. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with that kind of setup, especially in a team setup where certain buffs can make endurance a non-issue for any build, but solo at +4x8 + solo bosses, I think Ageless Core works better for my playstyle.

 

I was trying to see if there were any builds of Invulnerability / Super Strength Tanker on YouTube, but didn't really find anything besides one video that didn't demonstrate the build in play so I didn't bother with that video. :Shrugs: Build videos that demonstrate are great at setting the field and expectations and all that. o.o

 

There are some build demonstrating videos just not for Inv/SS though. xD Fair enough on the inspiration use. I have a more manual way of using insps. Have binds to use each kind of insp and a bind to delete resurrection insps. One thing I have been neglecting is the use of Lore Pets. I need to get some binds going for pets.

 

Back to to the testing mobile in any case. Thanks for the responses. Much love. ❤️

[Snarky]

15 minutes ago, JackBaldy said:

 

 

I've tried this build and it's a really solid build as far as surviving is concerned. Rune of Protection works great in the build for extra survivability. There are some things that I'm sure there's a reason but I'm not sure about.

 

Like why not have chance for absorb on Char? Is it redundant and doesn't stack? Going with Maneuvers and Assault, I'm assuming because there's nothing better to get at that point?

 

Overall, it's a really good build I'm just not sure how I feel about it thematically with things like Char and Arcane Bolt. It is on the slower side when it comes to damage and I'm assuming that jab can't be easily replaced with punch just based on the recharge (Don't think punch would be able to maintain the same attack chain with that builds recharge).

 

One thing that scares me is that the build seems like it would be on the pricey side. Although I'm not 100% sure on that. Testing things a lot before I spend my influence. >.<

 

In any case, thanks for posting the build. You were the person I got it from before as well. 😄

 

Well the thing is that those 60+ seconds don't include Hasten and Rage crashes or external debuffs/drains. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with that kind of setup, especially in a team setup where certain buffs can make endurance a non-issue for any build, but solo at +4x8 + solo bosses, I think Ageless Core works better for my playstyle.

 

I was trying to see if there were any builds of Invulnerability / Super Strength Tanker on YouTube, but didn't really find anything besides one video that didn't demonstrate the build in play so I didn't bother with that video. :Shrugs: Build videos that demonstrate are great at setting the field and expectations and all that. o.o

 

There are some build demonstrating videos just not for Inv/SS though. xD Fair enough on the inspiration use. I have a more manual way of using insps. Have binds to use each kind of insp and a bind to delete resurrection insps. One thing I have been neglecting is the use of Lore Pets. I need to get some binds going for pets.

 

Back to to the testing mobile in any case. Thanks for the responses. Much love. ❤️

here i one i made based on Hyperstrikes templates.  ymmv

 

Tanker - Invulnerability - Super Strength v2 rough.mxd

[Maelwys]

50 minutes ago, JackBaldy said:

Like why not have chance for absorb on Char? Is it redundant and doesn't stack?

That build is geared towards big Resistance numbers via alternating RoP and Melee Core Hybrid (which doesn't work so well ever since the change to Rune of Protection duration)... and whilst it's still "durable" without those... IMO gaining ~20% additional res to E/N/F/C at the cost of having virtually no Global Recharge or Damage Procs and ~40% less MaxHP is quite a large build compromise. And yes, a few of the slotting arrangements make little sense (SMoT in Jab for example - and using KO Blow as a Mule for a Winter's Set...) but it's useful as a starting point and/or showcase.

They've also been debated to death before - one of my favourite exchanges is on one of Diantane's old rant threads.

[Biff Pow]

12 hours ago, JackBaldy said:

The issue with Arachnos is the endurance drain. Yeah, their Psi stuff does hurt if one is not careful at +4x8, but the drain at +4x8 doesn't seem manageable without Ageless Core from what I've tested. 

 

The Arachnos Mu guys are definitely a pain, especially when a bunch of them spawn together. They are a case where Hand Clap is helpful, since they don't really get knocked down but do get stunned. I don't find any other Arachnos very difficult, so I always target the Mu first. But if there's a lot of them (or two Bosses) and you don't like relying on inspirations or Incarnate powers, Unstoppable is also a last resort option.