Open Lettur from Disgruntled Player regarding Plant Control

[Riverdusk]

On 9/13/2025 at 6:45 AM, Tankshock said:

Just found this.  I thoroughly appreciate all the devs do to keep this game alive, and in no way empathize with the rage quit.  But the OP is spot on with the nerfs.  I have several toons that I'm no longer interested in playing now, due to Adaptive.  Seeds, Carrion, and Rad Therapy changes have just made the builds boring and uninteresting.  These weren't by any stretch my go-to toons for feeling uber, either.  They were just good and fun, and now they aren't.  

Makes me a little sad, but there are plenty of other toons to play.  Just really question the wisdom of nerfing something so that it isn't fun anymore, esp when it was far from OP.  And yes, I thoroughly read the dev notes and tried to play the toons, so please don't come at me just for being disappointed.  

 

You might try electric control, after its buffs to me it feels closer to the old plant currently.  My new 'main' controller now is an electric/dark that does very well, imo.  Although I still miss the 'crunchy' feel that carrion creepers had with plant.  It's hard to recreate the cool 'feeling' plant had.

 

Of course wouldn't be surprised they go back and nerf electric control at some point next.  Need to make sure to keep the OP controllers that are taking over the game in line!  (yes, sarcasm).

[tidge]

On 9/10/2025 at 5:38 PM, Ukase said:

II'm not sure I understand why anyone would play a dominator in lieu of a controller. For stamina? That's easy to get. For status protection - my controllers only had to deal with mez when they were farming master illusionists for that kill the pets they have badge. Dominators - at least the way I play them - are not as good as controllers, and it's not even close. Don't forget, a controller can use the lockdown proc and lockdown bosses on the first attack just like a dom. And even if they miss it, the tools are there to handle it. So, yeah, my take is - don't know what it was like before, but the dom plant set is not that good compared to control plant set. Take that for whatever inf you can get for it. 

 

I feel like adding: I feel similar about Controllers v. Dominators. I can build both, both play well for me, but I find Controllers to be much more fun than Dominators. Much of the feels are certainly due towards building for perma-dom as it limits the design space for me (for any given Dominator combo). Without perma-dom, DOminators are somewhat meh, with permadom they feel like narrowly specialized Controllers.

[DarionLeonidas]

On 6/11/2025 at 3:48 PM, Nayeh said:

 

Welcome to the Ongoing Tragedy of "Fixing What Ain't Broke".
 

This is how many of us felt since way back in Issue 4 (or so) of Live with Travel Power Suppression and its ugly twin, Enhancement Nerfification.

 

I hope your letter gave you some comfort; I wish I could say it would restore things, but if I said I believed it would, I would be lying to you.

 

Honestly, I've resolved myself to just being grateful for the miracle that we have the game back, at all.  The Admins run it without pay and I am assuming the changes they make are based on much more than just "play balancing". Stability, server loads, keeping 20-year-old code running smoothly, and tons of other stuff I can't even imagine, and all of this on volunteer time. And they still manage to re-skin powers to give us "new" powersets, costumes, and even a populated zone.

 

Yeah, it sucks to have a power you're used to get radically changed, but at least it's still there.

 

My only real complaint is that the Admins, like the Devs of Live before them, pay way too much attention to Beta Server playtesters. This is a very thin slice of the player population who are enjoying a hugely disproportionate influence on the game overall.

 

But like I said: At least the game is back.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

When you have a moment, test out your seeds of confusion. I can't confirm anything but it "feels" much better than it has in recent weeks. Could be placebo on my part but it does seem vastly improved as of today on the same enemies I had issues with last week.

[CoeruleumBlue]

Yes, please don't nerf my homeboy Alex Humboldt the mutant botanist before he even gets to 50. That said I'm fine with the idea of Confusion and Taunt in the same powerset, we've already had that forever in some power sets like Illusion Control, just not literally on the exact same power. I am also a huge fan of procs and often partially design builds around what procs I can use so please don't take those out. 

[CoeruleumBlue]

On 10/1/2025 at 12:29 PM, DarionLeonidas said:

Welcome to the Ongoing Tragedy of "Fixing What Ain't Broke".
 

This is how many of us felt since way back in Issue 4 (or so) of Live with Travel Power Suppression and its ugly twin, Enhancement Nerfification.

 

I hope your letter gave you some comfort; I wish I could say it would restore things, but if I said I believed it would, I would be lying to you.

 

Honestly, I've resolved myself to just being grateful for the miracle that we have the game back, at all.  The Admins run it without pay and I am assuming the changes they make are based on much more than just "play balancing". Stability, server loads, keeping 20-year-old code running smoothly, and tons of other stuff I can't even imagine, and all of this on volunteer time. And they still manage to re-skin powers to give us "new" powersets, costumes, and even a populated zone.

 

Yeah, it sucks to have a power you're used to get radically changed, but at least it's still there.

 

My only real complaint is that the Admins, like the Devs of Live before them, pay way too much attention to Beta Server playtesters. This is a very thin slice of the player population who are enjoying a hugely disproportionate influence on the game overall.

 

But like I said: At least the game is back.

 

We probably just need to offer to work for the game more to be honest. I remember talking about PVP in the in-game chat and I offered to help work on that. Now to go find where the application center is again... 

[Wavicle]

On 10/1/2025 at 10:29 AM, DarionLeonidas said:

Welcome to the Ongoing Tragedy of "Fixing What Ain't Broke".
 

This is how many of us felt since way back in Issue 4 (or so) of Live with Travel Power Suppression and its ugly twin, Enhancement Nerfification.

 

I hope your letter gave you some comfort; I wish I could say it would restore things, but if I said I believed it would, I would be lying to you.

 

Honestly, I've resolved myself to just being grateful for the miracle that we have the game back, at all.  The Admins run it without pay and I am assuming the changes they make are based on much more than just "play balancing". Stability, server loads, keeping 20-year-old code running smoothly, and tons of other stuff I can't even imagine, and all of this on volunteer time. And they still manage to re-skin powers to give us "new" powersets, costumes, and even a populated zone.

 

Yeah, it sucks to have a power you're used to get radically changed, but at least it's still there.

 

My only real complaint is that the Admins, like the Devs of Live before them, pay way too much attention to Beta Server playtesters. This is a very thin slice of the player population who are enjoying a hugely disproportionate influence on the game overall.

 

But like I said: At least the game is back.

Plant Control, and specifically Seeds of Confusion absolutely WAS “broke”. Game breakingly broken.

Edited October 9 by Wavicle

[CoeruleumBlue]

On 6/17/2025 at 12:40 AM, Nayeh said:

Hello everyone,

 

Yes. I did already test the changes. Because I actually *play* the game and spend free time either in-game or in real-life doing other things. Not these cesspool forums where your average basement trolls live. I shared my critical opinion of the changes that will dramatically reduce the effectiveness of one of my favorite Control-type characters and provided additional commentary on the repulsive direction the developers have taken. Why? Because this is apparently the only place to actually voice my grievances as an active player that does not regularly browse this forum.

 

Setting aside most of the irrelevant banter many of you trolls have provided. Here is a glimpse of the new reality for Plant Control if these changes take place in regards to the flagship powers. My build was the same across test server and live as a Plant/Martial Dominator.

 

Test: NERFED Dominator

• Visual chaos: Dismal. Where are my plants? They initially spawn very slowly. Fewer targets, more likely to die. They don't hang around and thrash as much.
• Confusion: Power is moderate in impact. Now very unsafe exposure added to the confuse coverage for a power that requires you to be in close-range.
• Damage: Pathetic base damage, less Creepers delivering damage, slower response from Creepers, and Procs are virtually non-existent.

 

 

 

S

 

 

Live: pre-NERF Dominator

• Visual chaos: Aesthetic! Your visual feedback and crunching noises keep you motivated to keep playing City of Heroes. Plant vitality is excellent as they spawn reliably and consistently.
• Confusion: Actually does something useful and impactful. Remember: The developers changed the levels powers become available. Not their fault it's online faster now.
• Damage: Oh nice, something that isn't garbage but still does not outperform Fire Blast. Procs are still relevant.

 

 

Over all, my Tier 8 power Carrion Creepers are no longer iconic. They are consistently late to the party and fall flat. Dealing with this robot enemy type took about 3x more time and effort to defeat compared to my live pre-NERF Dominator under the same circumstances. Who ever played a Controller or Dominator and said "Gee, I wish I had *less* damage and *more* control. smh Nobody! No, a Deep Sleep buff does not make up for the enormous loss in performance. Lack of addressing the base damage of Carrion Creeper is also super lame. This is an unfair cascading nerf! There are tons of powers that can trigger Procs - stop singling out the few powers and address procs as a whole if you hate procs so much. What exactly was wrong with having an option for players to have a respectable damage-control set? Nothing. So stop forcing us to respec our characters every patch cycle!

 

Also, Spirit Tree having a taunt aura is still a very moronic display of game design when looking at the entire set as a whole.

Dear Devs, if these changes go live: Big L.

Thank you for your attention.

 

 

I still see all of your plants in the top one. You're not dead with no plants out. I do think the idea of making Seeds of Confusion have a Taunt and Confuse shouldn't be done so it can just be used as a Confuse since that sounds silly, but most of this thread sounds like people just complaining that an OP set is being nerfed, not that you're actually losing your plants. While I also don't want damage on all the control sets totally nerfed into the ground, I don't want them to just be changed into damage sets either. If you just want damage and plants, like, ask for a Plant Blast set that we were discussing in the Suggestions forum. Plant Blast plus plant pets sounds perfectly fun but not what a Plant Control set is for. 

[CoeruleumBlue]

On 9/10/2025 at 12:38 PM, Ukase said:

I have something that may or may not be useful. 
I've made 3 characters since this new page. 
2 were controllers. One is plant/natty, the other is plant/dark. 

A 3rd is a plant/martial assault dominator. 

At no time before this patch did I play a plant of any kind - although I've a dormant fire/plant blaster that's been at level 17 for a long, long time. 

The controller plant version is better than the dom. It's not that close, either. The problem with this feedback is slotting isn't the same. A dom tends to focus on recharge for perma-dom. (doesn't have to mind you) 
The creepers and seeds are really about the same, but for whatever reason, the controllers could amp up the difficulty much sooner than the dom. Leveling with the controller was fun - with the dom..well, it's at 42, and I haven't played it in a week. It's just not as fun because it's not as good. 

I just wonder if the changes made to plant were made considering the different nuances between controller and dominator. 

I'm not sure I understand why anyone would play a dominator in lieu of a controller. For stamina? That's easy to get. For status protection - my controllers only had to deal with mez when they were farming master illusionists for that kill the pets they have badge. Dominators - at least the way I play them - are not as good as controllers, and it's not even close. Don't forget, a controller can use the lockdown proc and lockdown bosses on the first attack just like a dom. And even if they miss it, the tools are there to handle it. So, yeah, my take is - don't know what it was like before, but the dom plant set is not that good compared to control plant set. Take that for whatever inf you can get for it. 

 

Yeah at this point I don't know why anyone would prefer dominator either and I play mind control and end up slotting for recharge anyway. I miss not getting to have Link Minds like Dominators get on controllers but it's not worth it for the secondary power pools on Dominators not seeming very good. I've heard people joked Dominators were primary/primary but in my experience that's basically the opposite of true. For example Defenders have the support set as their primary so when I make a Controller I often don't want many or any Epic/Patron Pool powers because I just want almost everything from the Primary and Secondary Power Pools, but if I'm doing something like radiation emission that doesn't come with defensive powers I'll probably try to pick something with two defensive powers like Psionic Mastery and take them both. On the other hand on Dominators I'm basically taking all five of the Epic/Patron Pool powers all the time because the Dominator secondaries are just not very good. Dominators are kind of ironically the only class that isn't primary/primary in my opinion, because the support sets, blast sets, armor sets, etc. are all primaries for one or another class, it's just the Dominators' secondary powers that don't seem very good to me. The one positive thing I can say about Dominators though is that if you want a melee support class Dominators are probably the best option, since their secondary sets usually have lots of melee powers and then you can pick Epic/Patron Pool powers as well as Incarnates, prestige powers, etc. to all be support-oriented. Playing them as a hybrid of controlling and blasting like it's intended doesn't seem to work super well though, and there's also another thread in Suggestions where it was mostly suggested that the Dominate power probably needs to be customizable to use the same effects as teleportation powers. 

[Wavicle]

10 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

I don't know why anyone would prefer dominator either

 

Well, I preferred (past tense) doms until the most recent changes, and now I think I may like controllers better.
The reason being: I mostly solo, using not terribly strong builds, and doms do damage that controllers don't (or didn't).

Also, "prefer" is a strong word, I play every AT, but I've got many more Doms to 50 than Controllers. But, that may now start to balance out.

 

I agree Doms should get a buff.

 

Something I've noted recently: Only two ATs don't have either Armor or Buffs, and those are Blasters and Dominators.

 

I wish Domination worked more like Fury. You get your bar filled and Domination is up, and it stays up as long as you keep your bar filled.

[Riverdusk]

7 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

Well, I preferred (past tense) doms until the most recent changes, and now I think I may like controllers better.
The reason being: I mostly solo, using not terribly strong builds, and doms do damage that controllers don't (or didn't).

Also, "prefer" is a strong word, I play every AT, but I've got many more Doms to 50 than Controllers. But, that may now start to balance out.

 

I agree Doms should get a buff.

 

Something I've noted recently: Only two ATs don't have either Armor or Buffs, and those are Blasters and Dominators.

 

I wish Domination worked more like Fury. You get your bar filled and Domination is up, and it stays up as long as you keep your bar filled.

 

Your suggestion is the opposite of what I'd like to see, because it'd punish people like me even more (those that need afk breaks fairly often and/or don't like the constant go-go playstyle).   At least now once I get perma dom I can leave it on auto and not lose it when I need a brief break.  My usual goal on doms now anyway is to get within 20% and then fill in the gap with the +recharge SG base buff so I'm set for 90 minutes at a time without losing it even without hasten.

 

My suggestion will always be to just get rid of the dom bar.  The ability still also has a recharge and that can stay. Then the difference between perma dom and a few seconds shy of perma dom is no longer so binary and such a big "cliff".  Going afk a few minutes is no longer a big deal because it'll be recharged and ready to trigger when you get back from afk.  Basically it becomes more like hasten (which also isn't a big deal if you are a few seconds shy of 'Perma").

[Wavicle]

5 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Your suggestion is the opposite of what I'd like to see, because it'd punish people like me even more (those that need afk breaks fairly often and/or don't like the constant go-go playstyle).   At least now once I get perma dom I can leave it on auto and not lose it when I need a brief break.  My usual goal on doms now anyway is to get within 20% and then fill in the gap with the +recharge SG base buff so I'm set for 90 minutes at a time without losing it even without hasten.

 

My suggestion will always be to just get rid of the dom bar.  The ability still also has a recharge and that can stay. Then the difference between perma dom and a few seconds shy of perma dom is no longer so binary and such a big "cliff".  Going afk a few minutes is no longer a big deal because it'll be recharged and ready to trigger when you get back from afk.  Basically it becomes more like hasten (which also isn't a big deal if you are a few seconds shy of 'Perma").

What I want is for the archetype to be good before you load it up with sets.

 

EDIT: So yeah, your suggestion sounds pretty good. Even with just Hasten the downtime wouldn't be too bad.

Edited October 10 by Wavicle

[Nayeh]

Great job "Power" Devs.

A lot of you are lying to yourselves if you think Plant deserved these moronic changes.

 

The state of Plant Control today:

[UltraAlt]

1 minute ago, Nayeh said:

Great job "Power" Devs.

A lot of you are lying to yourselves if you think Plant deserved these moronic changes.

 

The state of Plant Control today:

 

I liked Plant Control before and didn't think it needed to be changed.

 

I'm not going to say that the changes were an improvement, but I don't feel that the changes are any real issue.

That being said, I character jump a lot, so it isn't like my "main" was a plant controller (I don't even have a "main").

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Plant_Control#Spirit_Tree seemed to have had become an automatically skippable power to many players due to overly-common practice of "steam rolling" which I used to call Bull-in-the-China-Shop.

With the faster recharge and taunt mechanic, it is fairly useful when another taunt power/archetype isn't on your team which makes the power not automatically skippable for some people. At this point, it seems more useful as taunt with + regen, rather than primarily (only) + regen. 

 

Honestly, the change in the Spirit Tree was the only change that really stood out ot me the last time a played a Plant Controller (which was probably last week or the week before ... at least, I don't think it was the week before. Oh, so much character jumping, and the memory thing tends to blur it all together into one glorious gaming experience)

[Riverdusk]

Just leveled up a new plant dom over last couple of weeks and have to say I'm very satisfied with the changes at this point.  Spirit tree is definitely the biggest win, especially if solo.  It is a great opener and tends to clump the mobs who you can then use seeds on.  That actually solved one issue I had with seeds.  Often it was hard to hit everything or even almost everything in a group with it when mobs start spread out (which is often on some maps).  It would then aggro the whole group and all the ones that weren't in the arc would fire at you. 

 

It is easier now to hit the entire mob with seeds or at least most of it, although you do have to wait a bit for tree to work its taunt magic (and stealth helps).   It is less useful in a quick moving group and I often don't bother in that situation, but still much better than it was.  I wish triage beacon would get same treatment.

 

Not seeing the lack of tentacles for creepers that some people were reporting.  Seem same as pre-change to me now.  It has always a bit funky of a power in my experience in that sometimes you'll cast it on a mob and tentacles will take a few seconds to show up, other times they show up right away.  A bit less damage without all the procs sure, but it is still decently good aoe damage.  Of course not as big an issue on a dom with the damage secondary.

 

Spore burst and vines still skippable, but better than before.  I ended up taking both and get some occasional use from both.  Spore burst was more useful lower levels, vines more useful later when you have a lot of recharge.

 

Plant use to be insanely good at a very low level.  Have to say it was more of a struggle at lower levels for sure due to how short seed's duration is now at that level.  However, once a bit higher level and fully slotted it smooths out.

 

I do currently like plant better on a dom than controller have to say (use to feel the opposite).  Between a bit less damage plant itself has now, that the contagious confusion proc happens much less often (not needed on perma-dom anyway), and the extra safety I feel it has now with spirit tree (lets you be more aggressive as a dom), and that there are just more control powers worth taking now for dominate to shine,  all tilt toward dom over controller for me. 

 

I'm also an alt-aholic, but right now my plant/psi dom has actually become my favorite character (vet level 8 and rising).  

[Mailanka]

Recent returnee to Homecoming, I used to play a 50 Plant/Psi Dominator back in the day (pre Going Rogue) and, of course, I've remade the character and been replaying through the game, and while I recognized the Spirit Tree change as new, I hadn't realized Seeds of Confusion had been nerfed. Carrion Creepers were also, without a doubt, my single most favorite power out of the set, and I just recently regained 22 to get them. Since this topic is near and dear to my heart, I thought I'd give my thoughts, understanding that criticism is meant to improve things.

 

I have several builds I've played with that felt overpowered, such as a Dark/Dark tank, where it feels like you can charge into a vast group of bad guys and rampage through them feeling invincible. My Plant/Psi Dom felt like that, especially in the later levels, back in the day. He still feels like that. I don't feel particularly nerfed.

 

Seeds had felt very short to be and I hadn't realized it was nerfed but it makes sense, but even with the nerf it still feels like an essential tool of the set. Throughout my build up in early levels, it remained my opening move. With three Confuse SOs in Seeds, by the time the enemy frees themselves from confusion, it's usually recharged. I do struggle to Confuse Bosses with it though (I really appreciate the option to fight bosses when solo, BTW). Perhaps that's part of the nerf?

 

I used Spirit Tree back in the day, but it was more of an emergency power. I often found I had to carry teams during bad pulls or when we underestimated how bad a boss was, and Spirit Tree was a great way to keep everyone fighting fit, but it was a back pocket sort of power, something nice to have in an emergency. It still feels like that, but acting as a tank is a nice little bonus.

 

I've just tried Carrion Creepers and it seems fine? I went rampaging into a large open world spawn and pulled a few more spawns in and the Carrion Creepers did fine? Better than I expected given that I just got them and they're not even slotted yet. Carrion also felt like an emergency power, but a tac nuke when used properly, It still feels like that, so far, tentatively, with the one use I've seen so far. But it behaved like I expected it to. The real test would be what I used to do in... Grandville? Or the PVP area for 50s near Grandville, which had huge spawns that I'd go drop carrion creepers and see a dozen tentacles spring up and total chaos unleashed. What I pulled just now was smaller than those near armies, but seemed similar in performance. To me, Carrion Creepers filled a similar niche as Ice Patch did for Ice Controllers, except way more fun: just creating a generally chaotic environment into which you could apply some spot control. It still does that.

 

I won't be sure if he behaves appropriately at 50 until he's at 50, but so far my experience with him has matched my expectations. The nerfs/buffs I've seen so far seem to be marginal and don't really "make or break" the build, as far as I can see, so far at least. I understand there can be a lot of drama on the margins, and, as a software developer myself, that's absolutely valid and definitely matters, but broadly, I see nothing in here that would have me recommending people stay away from it (as I might with Claws or Super Reflexes, based on my previous experiences with those)