'Scale' - What does it mean?

[Troo]

Is Scale explained somewhere?

 

I've seen this:

• Self damage buff lowered from 1.0x to 0.875x.

 

Here are little more confusing:

• will do 3 extra ticks of scale 0.4433 cold damage increased over 4.5 seconds (totaling scale 2.8)
• Power now applies a scale 2 -dmg debuff
• This power now grants scale 0.8 resistance
• defense lowered from scale 2 to scale 1.7
• Heal per enemy increased from scale 2.2% to scale 11%
• lowered from scale 11% to scale 6%

 

What does it mean?

Seeds of Confusion

Scale reduced from scale 20 to scale 8.

 

Is going from scale 20 to scale 8 a 40% reduction or something more significant?

 

 

[Psyonico]

I don’t think it’s specifically defined anywhere.

 

 The reason the devs use scale instead of flat numbers is that Scale remains the same across ATs, while the actual numbers vary depending on AT scalers.

 

19 minutes ago, Troo said:

Is going from scale 20 to scale 8 a 40% reduction or something more significant?

That would be a 60% reduction, not a 40% reduction (it’s 40% of 20)

[Snarky]

[BZRKR]

@Snarky I like that image a lot!

@Troo Looking at the entry here: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Damage#Damage_Scale it seems like it's something multiplied by something else. I'm going to write a sentence using the word "Ratio" and hope that someone more math-minded comes to explain better 🙂

[ZemX]

14 minutes ago, Troo said:

What does it mean?

Seeds of Confusion

Scale reduced from scale 20 to scale 8.

 

When used like this, it refers to the coefficient that is multiplying an AT effect modifier to get the resulting actual number.  Here is a snippet of Seeds in City of Data:

 

So there's the "scale 8".  It means "8.0 times the Controller's AT modifier for Ranged Stun effects" (which apparently gets used for confuse effects as well).  Here's what that looks like when you select Controller in "Show for AT"

 

[Uun]

All powers are based on a Scale multiplied by an AT modifier. The devs explain changes this way because multiple ATs have the same power. It is stronger or weaker on each AT because of the different AT modifiers, but the multiplier (Scale) remains the same. 

 

22 minutes ago, Troo said:

Self damage buff lowered from 1.0x to 0.875x.

This is a change in the AT modifier for tank Melee_Buff_Dmg.

 

27 minutes ago, Troo said:

Seeds of Confusion

Scale reduced from scale 20 to scale 8.

If you pull up Seeds of Confusion on CoD and change the AT to "None", you can see the 8.0 Scale multiplied by the Ranged_Stun AT modifier. Seeds has different durations on controllers and dominators because each AT has a different Ranged_Stun modifier. Note, the AT modifier used doesn't determine the effect.

 

(8.0 * Ranged_Stun) second Confused (Mag 3)

[Maelwys]

44 minutes ago, Troo said:

Is Scale explained somewhere?

What does it mean?

In short; "Magnitude".

You can see it in any power in CoDv2 as long as you set the "Show for AT" box to "None".
(it's visible in the Mids database as well but the raw stats there are a bit trickier to get at)




(i) See the terms like Melee_Damage and Melee_Debuff_Def and Melee_Ones?
Those are modifiers. The first two vary across different ATs and the last one stays constant.
There are dozens upon dozens of these and you can see them all on the far right here.

(ii) See the actual numbers like "1.0" and "0.67"?
That's the magnitude or scale of each effect.
It's an indicator of how strong the effect is (and it doesn't care what the effect actually is/does!)

44 minutes ago, Troo said:

Seeds of Confusion

Scale reduced from scale 20 to scale 8.

That's a good example. Here's the relevant bit for Seeds of Confusion.



See? It's applying a "scale" 8.0 effect which gets multiplied by the AT's Ranged_Stun modifier.
The upshot is that it inflicts a stun with a base duration of 8*1.863=14.904 seconds on a Controller; and 8*1.49=11.92 seconds on a Dominator

[EDIT: ZemX and Uun beat me to it! You wait ages for a math-head then three come along at once...  ]
 

Edited Wednesday at 04:24 PM by Maelwys

[catsi563]

pretty much as the others have said I believe scaling refers to in the game context as the effect certain powers have growing over time as they level based on the individual ATs sets and bonuses

 

so as example a tanker and a blaster using the same power

 

the blasters version of the power may scale in damage at 2.0 for sake of argument per level

 

the tankers version may only scale in damage 1.2 per level but may add a stacking taunt aura based on their gauntlet trait 

 

so 5 levels later the blasters hitting much harder using the same power but the tankers power is less damaging but has a greater taunt capacity

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, BZRKR said:

@Snarky I like that image a lot!

@Troo Looking at the entry here: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Damage#Damage_Scale it seems like it's something multiplied by something else. I'm going to write a sentence using the word "Ratio" and hope that someone more math-minded comes to explain better 🙂

In math it is real simple.  Take x.  X is whatever.  2x is twice that. 2 is the scalar.  If it was x^2. (X raised to the power of 2). That would be exponential scaling.  But in the context of the game, as complicated as this one is, it should still just be a “straight” modifier of whatever value is discussed. Which can be confusing since sometimes the value is itself a scalar, as in Archetype damage scalars.  This just waded out into deep waters.  The next step is … down there somewhere 

[Troo]

Thank you all for the very good explanations.

I'm thinking some folks look at the patch notes and think 20 is greater than 8 but what the f*#! does that mean.

[High_Beam]

[Psyonico]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

I'm thinking some folks look at the patch notes and think 20 is greater than 8 but what the f*#! does that mean

Probably most people, TBH.  When I saw the Seeds scale change, I knew that scale affected damage and armor stats, but I didn’t know how it applied to controls.

[catsi563]

2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Probably most people, TBH.  When I saw the Seeds scale change, I knew that scale affected damage and armor stats, but I didn’t know how it applied to controls.

Controls scaling most likely applies to Magnitude which is the principle element of any control powers

 

so a mag 1 stun or a mag 3 hold etc etc 

 

scaling in that regard means the magnitude of a hold or stun or sleep scales with what ever element meets the scaling criteria

[Troo]

1 hour ago, catsi563 said:

Controls scaling most likely applies to Magnitude

 

I'm not sure if it is magnitude or duration.

 

What I am sure of is how dysfunctional it is that changes are published in a cryptic manner many don't understand.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, catsi563 said:

Controls scaling most likely applies to Magnitude which is the principle element of any control powers

 

so a mag 1 stun or a mag 3 hold etc etc 

 

scaling in that regard means the magnitude of a hold or stun or sleep scales with what ever element meets the scaling criteria

Ah, but see, that’s not right in this case.

 

it went from scale 20 to scale 8.  If it was a magnitude thing, that 60% reduction would put seeds at less than Mag 2, meaning it would only affect minions.  And that is not the case.

 

someone in Repeat Offenders asked one of the devs to clarify what scale meant in this case and the answer was duration.