Dialogue triggers at the wrong times. Are they all just broken forever?

[Zombra]

Seems like Homecoming has always had issues with dialogue triggers.  Patrols trigger their dialogue when they're nowhere near the player.  Hostages never trigger their 'inactive' dialogue until the player attacks their captors, so 'inactive' and 'active' always happen at the same time.  Bosses yell out challenges to the player from 3 floors away.  Trying to write Architect dialogue that will trigger at the appropriate times is a huge nightmare - it seems like every dialogue plays out immediately, making any attempt to frame a story with a beginning and an end impossible.  I don't remember it being like this back on live.

[Cobalt Arachne]

Not really much we can do with the lack of information provided...

Feel confident saying its not the entire game doing it everywhere, so we need some actual specific in-game examples with exact reproduction steps provided if you can.
Things like mission info, from which contacts, /whereami filepaths and coordinates of maps having issues, etc.

Our time is extremely valuable to us, we need a bug reports to be as specific as possible if anybody is expecting us to commit time to fixing them.

[Bionic_Flea]

I think Zombra is referring to AE missions.  As far as I remember, AE dialog triggers were always a mess, even live, and remain so.

 

And what about Max.  Why does Max haunt me in missions, in my base, in the open world . . . EVERYWHERE!

[Zombra]

20 minutes ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

Not really much we can do with the lack of information provided...

Feel confident saying its not the entire game doing it everywhere, so we need some actual specific in-game examples with exact reproduction steps provided if you can.
Things like mission info, from which contacts, /whereami filepaths and coordinates of maps having issues, etc.

Our time is extremely valuable to us, we need a bug reports to be as specific as possible if anybody is expecting us to commit time to fixing them.

 

THANK YOU.  I didn't mean to be vague, just had no idea if this was a big thing everyone just accepted or if it was just me and no one knew there's a problem.  I will get together some specifics soon.

[Zombra]

OK, here is one with specific details.

 

Architect mission testing.

Mission goal: Release captive.

Map: City Map 01

Immediately upon entry, Enemy Unaware Dialog, Captive Inactive Dialog, Enemy Attack Dialog, and Captive Active Dialog all trigger instantly.  I am 380yds away from the captive and there is no line of sight.  No word balloons appear in game space, def too far away.
 

Edited Wednesday at 10:12 PM by Zombra

[Zombra]

Architect mission testing.

Mission goal: Release captive.

Map: City Map 01

Patrol dialogue triggered in chat box, but no word balloons in gameplay space so speakers cannot be located.  Seems like they are too far away.

[Cobalt Arachne]

8 minutes ago, Zombra said:

OK, here is one with specific details.

 

Architect mission testing.

Mission goal: Release captive.

Map: City Map 01

Immediately upon entry, Enemy Unaware Dialog, Captive Inactive Dialog, Enemy Attack Dialog, and Captive Active Dialog all trigger instantly.  I am 380yds away from the captive and there is no line of sight.

That is working as intended for that map since it's outdoors.
Outdoor maps have worked that way in Architect Entertainment since before shutdown.

As for why... Almost every single outdoor map (except the couple ones added by Homecoming such as the Cimeroran maps) are single 'rooms' and do not support progressive mission scripting for parts of missions that are handled by rooms sequentially populating.
The instant you zone in, the 'room' goes active, and all inactive dialog fires because the mission script detects players in the 'room' where those spawns exist.

Once the map is published in AE it can't be broken down into sections anymore because it would invalidate every single existing published AE arc that is using the map with the current mission specs.

 

Unfortunately, that means there's nothing to fix here, unless you can find the issue in some non-Architect Entertainment missions.

[Zombra]

Seems odd that Enemy Attack Dialog triggers immediately in the room.  Isn't there a trigger for when combat starts?

 

If not, is there any difference between Enemy Unaware Dialog and Enemy Attack Dialog?

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:49 PM by Zombra

[Darmian]

14 minutes ago, Zombra said:

If not, is there any difference between Enemy Unaware Dialog and Enemy Attack Dialog?

Nope.  You just have to test every damn map for it.  As @Cobalt Arachne said most outdoor maps will instantly "go live" because there's no perceived distance between the player and the target.  And some of the AE indoor maps do the same damn thing.  So it's test and test again.

 

My only "hack" for this is Enemy Unaware is almost always things I want the player to "overhear" rather than anything else.  Other than that I avoid the Enemy Unaware dialog.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:03 AM by Darmian

[Zombra]

Mission: To What End for Power Part Two (and countless others, but I just tested this one)

When approaching the Keres elite boss, Enemy Unaware dialog does not trigger, even when I enter the room, until combat starts.  Then it triggers at the same time as Enemy Attack dialog.  This happens all the time in tons of missions (though not always).  I am fairly sure this was not the mission behavior on live - when I started playing Homecoming last year, I immediately noticed it in all kidnap missions, and some others, and noticed how wrong it felt.

[Zombra]

23 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Nope.

 

This is sincerely valuable information, thank you.  So the game straight up wasn't built in working order in the first place.  I can certainly admit that my memories from 20 years ago of it working well are probably rose-colored.  Sad but I'll follow your example and test a lot to 'trick' the game into delivering something close enough.  Appreciate the reply.

 

Edited Thursday at 12:27 AM by Zombra

[srmalloy]

On 7/16/2025 at 2:35 PM, Cobalt Arachne said:

Feel confident saying its not the entire game doing it everywhere, so we need some actual specific in-game examples with exact reproduction steps provided if you can.

I have had it happen once, with the 'Keep Fusionette from getting killed' mission from Jim Temblor, where I found Arbiter Sands on the first floor and rescued him, then when I went up to the second floor I saw the dialog from Fusionette becoming aware of my presence; however she wasn't on the second floor, but the third. Since it didn't affect the progress of the mission -- I would have taken the same care progressing through the floor regardless of whether I would find Fusionette and her captor on that floor -- I just wrote it off as some weird quirk of the mission.

[ZamuelNow]

On 7/16/2025 at 6:12 PM, Cobalt Arachne said:

As for why... Almost every single outdoor map (except the couple ones added by Homecoming such as the Cimeroran maps) are single 'rooms' and do not support progressive mission scripting for parts of missions that are handled by rooms sequentially populating.

 

There were actually a tiny number outdoor maps built correctly in the retail days.  Though all of them have the multipart indoor/outdoor split.

Edited yesterday at 01:28 PM by ZamuelNow
typo

[Tatterhood]

On 7/16/2025 at 6:12 PM, Cobalt Arachne said:

Unfortunately, that means there's nothing to fix here, unless you can find the issue in some non-Architect Entertainment missions.

It happens a lot in safeguard/mayhem missions. This is all immediately on entering the zone in a mayhem mission (Steel Canyon bank) I just did:

[Cobalt Arachne]

47 minutes ago, Tatterhood said:

It happens a lot in safeguard/mayhem missions. This is all immediately on entering the zone in a mayhem mission (Steel Canyon bank) I just did:

This is possibly fixable by breaking the map into various volume trays to simulate different 'rooms'...
I'd have to do some testing, and it would be a hands-on project, as I'd have to fix every single one; I assume every Mayhem Mission does this?

[Zombra]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

I assume every Mayhem Mission does this?

 

I haven't done a checklist or anything but I have noticed it happen a lot in Mayhems.

[Tatterhood]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

This is possibly fixable by breaking the map into various volume trays to simulate different 'rooms'...
I'd have to do some testing, and it would be a hands-on project, as I'd have to fix every single one; I assume every Mayhem Mission does this?

Just tested with Agent Hassell and it happens in all of the safeguards. I could check the mayhems as well, but afaik they're the same maps?

[Cobalt Arachne]

2 minutes ago, Tatterhood said:

but afaik they're the same maps?

They're based on the same map, but they're actually all different... Unfortunately for me, so I'll have to adjust all the Safeguards too...

Something I'll put on my to-do list, but unsure when I'll get it done.