Why is doing damage the only way to win?

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

Interpretive Dance is clearly supposed to be a Support set, so we can have a +DEF,+RES "Safety Dance" power.

Mosh pit brutes coming soon.

[RikOz]

2 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

But trollers are tons of fun. Giving up at 5th level before you get any of the real powers of the set (most notably Phantom Army, the keystone of the illusion set) seems a little odd. Yeah, they don't curbstomp stuff at low level, but you can just slot your single-target hold and immobilize for damage and pretend you're a mini-blaster until 12-16th when you start getting some more serious powers.

For me it's basically that I play entirely solo, and having to take a relatively ridiculous amount of time to defeat a single opponent just feels like a slog. Particularly when that enemy's friends are also beating on me and I have literally no defense, so half my time is spent running back from the hospital.

[skoryy]

31 minutes ago, RikOz said:

For me it's basically that I play entirely solo, and having to take a relatively ridiculous amount of time to defeat a single opponent just feels like a slog. Particularly when that enemy's friends are also beating on me and I have literally no defense, so half my time is spent running back from the hospital.

 

Illusion has a ranged AoE hold/sleep and a confuse at level 2. Drop a Blind, drop a Deceive on whoever slips through, and you don't even have to worry about using PFF at level 5. Blind procs Containment, so now you get a good chance at bonus damage with your Spectral Wounds as well. Easy peasy at +0/x1.

 

Yeah, 'trollers won't match the damage of a blaster or scrapper, but they're still loads of fun.

Edited yesterday at 03:25 AM by skoryy

[WumpusRat]

30 minutes ago, RikOz said:

For me it's basically that I play entirely solo, and having to take a relatively ridiculous amount of time to defeat a single opponent just feels like a slog. Particularly when that enemy's friends are also beating on me and I have literally no defense, so half my time is spent running back from the hospital.

I'm curious what you're trying to fight that it feels like a slog at 5th level vs any other AT. Damage is so similar at that level that the differences in scaling haven't really kicked in yet.

 

I primarily solo as well, and most of the time don't bother running DFB, I just do the arcs in Atlas. My first two attacks are always the single-target immob and the hold. Most fights go immob-hold, mob is dead due to containment doubling the hold's damage (or if it's a lieutenant, they're at half). Grab the prestige enhancements off the START vendor to get a little free damage/recharge into the powers (and the rare proc), and just murderhobo your way through stuff. Unless you kick the difficulty up at low levels, you should steamroll just about everything unless you're trying to fight orange and red-cons. And with illusions it should be even easier, as Spectral Wounds actually hits nearly as hard as any blaster attack at that level.

 

It sounds like you may be picking on large groups of mobs, if you're getting just hammered like that. Trollers aren't any squishier than a blaster, defender, corruptor, or any other non-tanky AT at that level. With FF, you can pick up Repulsion Bolt at 4th and punt stuff off of you. But most things shouldn't be getting to you with your controls. Confuse one (now you have a buddy!), hold another, and just cycle back and forth until they're dead. Or just tank a few hits. It's not like white-con minions are going to be chunking your health at 5th level. 

 

If you really want some extra punch at low levels, you can pick up Sands of Mu, Nemesis Staff, Blackwand, or Ghostslayer Axe from the START vendor as well. Gives you a few extra attacks to pepper into things early on to help you through the first few levels. And don't sleep on your origin attack. It's free, ranged, and does a decent amount of damage at that level.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:25 AM by WumpusRat

[TheMoneyMaker]

20 hours ago, Ukase said:

It's already been mentioned. Jack Emmert, love him or hate him

Hate him. End of storry.

 

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

Ah yes, Jack…   Master of making friends. I truly hope he finally did. 

Not me. I honestly hope he lost friends over time and became a broken shell of a man.

 

17 hours ago, tidge said:

There is no practical way to assign XP, Inf, reward drops except for defeating enemies in this game.

Yep. That is the problem, and sadly there is no getting around it because that's how it was intended to work for reasons explained above by Ukase.

 

That said, At low levels, I have no difficulty with controllers or other squishies. Even the melee types are weak at that level, often being forced to pick between an extra attack or more protection, either making them more vulnerable in order to attack more or deal less damage with a somewhat improved survivability. Containment helps with controller damage, even at low level. You can also buy temp powers to pad your survivability and damage potential from the START vendor. For higher levels, it's important to note that Containment did get expanded to include additional benefits for controllers in the most recent update. One difficulty for controllers was a lack of pet control... and what good is your tier 9 pet if you cant aim it at the target that needs it, such as a mez-resistant EB when the pet would formerly attack randomly whatever was in range. At least now you can focus that damage on a target of your choosing, right?

[AerialAssault]

A good Controller on a struggling team can turn a slog into a cakewalk.

 

My Mind/Emp Controller can't solo to save their life, but in a team they can keep whole rooms on lockdown. CC is a very effective method of damage mitigation, and while Death Defeat is the ultimate debuff, you have to actually be able to inflict it for it to work, and that's a lot easier to do when the enemy can't fight back or run away.

 

While CC's usefulness tapers off at level 50+, I tend to play a lot in the 15-40 bracket and the presence of a competent Controller is a massive force multiplier. I've even had tells after leaving a team that they got wiped by the first mob after I left.

 

Ultimately, if your brain is coded to equate damage and kills defeats as the only metric for usefulness, you might just not 'get' the Controller. But for people who enjoy the support role, it's a good feeling knowing you're the foundation for the team's success.

 

Then a Galaxy Archon smacks you for all your HP and sends you to hospital.

[cranebump]

I want a Troller who’s a Charismamancer. I just fly by and the mobs swoon and fall over.

The XP (and your hearts) are MINE!

[Uncle Shags]

On 7/19/2025 at 6:04 PM, temnix said:

Morale break.

I like it! I too have wondered what's the point of anything but damage if that's the only win condition. 

 

As was mentioned, the mechanic kind of already exists:

14 hours ago, RikOz said:

On the other hand, when I stop a mugging and that Outcast in Steel Canyon decides to leg it instead of fight, it kind of spoils my immersion when the victim continues to stand there cowering while the mugger is a hundred yards away and still going. What, scaring the mugger off isn't good enough? I have to chase him across the zone? Go on kid, he's gone. You're safe.

I think it would add a new layer of depth to the game that would be a breath of fresh air. 

 

If I had the power I would 

[RikOz]

11 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

I'm curious what you're trying to fight that it feels like a slog at 5th level vs any other AT. Damage is so similar at that level that the differences in scaling haven't really kicked in yet.

I perhaps should have mentioned that I rolled this particular controller very shortly after Homecoming came online, so I didn't yet have the overall play experience that now allows me to look things over and plan ahead. (An example of how I've learned to plan ahead: Once I got some experience with getting exemped down in Ouro missions, all of my future alts started taking three attack powers ASAP--one at character creation, one at level 2 during the tutorial, and one more at the next power-selection level. And then taking Flight as soon as feasible. That lets me get exemped down to do Atlas Park mission-level, I'm not suddenly flightless and nearly powerless.)

 

That controller was also a reroll of the only controller I rolled on live, where I didn't get to actually play her much before the game shut down. (I had the misfortune of discovering my all-time favorite game just a year or so before it shut down; I still managed to roll 93 alts in that time, but just ran out of time to actually level most of them, so many of them never even made it out of Atlas Park.

 

I have since had a ton of fun with control tactics, but on an ice/rad blaster. Between her primary and secondary (and one epic pool power, I think), she has something like five different ways to completely lock down enemies.

[mistagoat]

Trollers are are on a pretty big spectrum of damage. I have an Ice/Rad that I love dearly who nobody can touch but it takes her a week to defeat an even con minion and I have a Fire/Dark that just melts 4x8 mobs like they're made of ice cream.

 

Trollers were the original farmers in CoH, at a time when Tanks, Scraps and EATs all existed the squishy-ass low damage Troller was the king of slaughtering mountains of enemies in the most efficient way possible at the time. Of course there are more efficient ways of doing this now but Trollers are just as nasty now as they were then. There are some sets that lend themselves more towards damage than other sets but that just allows for greater variety imo.

 

I don't know what the answer to all this would be but speaking only for myself, I don't really need anything done for trollers. Trollers are my favorite AT in the game and that's as true today as it was on live. Currently leveling a Mind/Storm who isn't cranking out major damage yet but should be pretty devastating in a few levels!

 

 

[RCU7115]

That was a lot of blah, blah, blah.

[Heatstroke]

The Controller is at the same time the weakest and yet the most powerful of the archetypes. The Controller has few offensive attacks and possesses few hit points. But the Controller has access to a range of powers and abilities that no one else does. Armed with these powers, a Controller can affect the behavior of villains, from freezing them in place, to putting them to sleep, to routing them away. Armed with such abilities, the Controller is the backbone for any super group, but the Controller depends upon their teammates for protection.

 

The game tells you off the bat that controllers are weaker, have less offensive powers and have fewer hit points. And as someone else said the original design of the MMO is to create an environment of team play, where characters benefit from one another. Controllers were the only AT at the outset that had Crown Control abilities as well as Buffs and Debuffs to aid teams. Yes initially they struggle on their own until they gain more powers and eventually enhancements that increase their abilities.. 

 

Controllers are also very much affected by power selection. Some builds can do very good damage. Some struggle with it. But all controllers can become extremely self sufficent. 

[Octogoat]

I hear jack emmert and John Romero are working on daikatana 2 and are best buds