Eliminate White Salvage

[Boas]

I've seen posts about blocking white salvage drops from the P2W vendor. Posts about an option to mass-sell white salvage.

 

These are cowardly half-measures.

 

Eliminate white salvage. Just get rid of it. Remove it all from the game.

 

What will we lose? The price of individual white salvage components is negligible. It ONLY serves to inhibit the player, making us scrounge a piece of it for crafting. It's not hard to get, it's just annoying to get, and annoying to dispose of.

 

Sometimes, creating a work of art requires the commitment to throwing part of it away if it doesn't work.

 

White salvage doesn't work.

[tidge]

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, Boas said:

I've seen posts about blocking white salvage drops from the P2W vendor. Posts about an option to mass-sell white salvage.

 

These are cowardly half-measures.

 

Eliminate white salvage. Just get rid of it. Remove it all from the game.

 

What will we lose? The price of individual white salvage components is negligible. It ONLY serves to inhibit the player, making us scrounge a piece of it for crafting. It's not hard to get, it's just annoying to get, and annoying to dispose of.

 

Sometimes, creating a work of art requires the commitment to throwing part of it away if it doesn't work.

 

White salvage doesn't work.

What will we lose?

 

Generic IOs

Set IOs

SG empowerment buffs

Additional inf' from selling to vendors (Group selling works for fast clearing of salvage)

 

[Super Atom]

We make this game any easier or less complex and we might legally be redefined as an idle clicker game.

[Luminara]

[megaericzero]

What happens to recipes that use that type of salvage exclusively? Do they only cost INF now?

[Boas]

10 minutes ago, tidge said:

Oh, I knew this was coming. "Buh-buh-but, Boas!" you say, "wuh-wuh-what about my EMPOWERMENT TABLES?"

 

OK. Go over to your precious empowerment table. Do it right now. Look at that list. 

 

This is a perfect example of how white salvage clutters up the game, making it less accessible. That stupid list could be over THREE TIMES SHORTER if you took white salvage out of the game. Why not just make it a straight-up inf transaction? It basically is already, with the tedious extra step of having to spend it on white salvage before you visit the table.

 

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What will we lose?

 

Generic IOs

Set IOs

SG empowerment buffs

Additional inf' from selling to vendors (Group selling works for fast clearing of salvage)

None of these things couldn't just be a straight-up inf transaction, either. And vendoring white salvage for inf? Are you serious? If my salvage inventory was stuffed with that crap and I vendored every single piece at 250 a pop (a process which involves literally hundreds of mouse clicks), I'd net less than 50k. Less than the vendor price of the cheapest IO recipe. Get real!

 

Just now, megaericzero said:

What happens to recipes that use that type of salvage exclusively? Do they only cost INF now?

Yeah.

 

Maybe it's not clear how effectively worthless white salvage really is. If I had 180 slots of my auction house inventory devoted to white salvage, with 10x pieces in each slot, and could actually sell every piece of it for 1k, that would total 1.8 million inf. Repeat that entire process TEN MORE TIMES, and you MIGHT have enough to nab a SINGLE Apocalypse IO off the AH. GOOD LUCK!

 

Just get rid of it!

[golstat2003]

How about nah bro.

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Boas said:

None of these things couldn't just be a straight-up inf transaction, either. And vendoring white salvage for inf? Are you serious? If my salvage inventory was stuffed with that crap and I vendored every single piece at 250 a pop (a process which involves literally hundreds of mouse clicks), I'd net less than 50k. Less than the vendor price of the cheapest IO recipe. Get real!

You do realize that you can right click sell groups of salvage? Like I said in my original post? Hundreds of clicks to sell salvage? Ho boy. I can clear a full window of common salvage in seconds. And it doesn't take me anywhere near hundreds of clicks.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Boas said:

Maybe it's not clear how effectively worthless white salvage really is. If I had 180 slots of my auction house inventory devoted to white salvage, with 10x pieces in each slot, and could actually sell every piece of it for 1k, that would total 1.8 million inf. Repeat that entire process TEN MORE TIMES, and you MIGHT have enough to nab a SINGLE Apocalypse IO off the AH. GOOD LUCK!

Methinks you have your expectations for sales way too high.

[Boas]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You do realize that you can right click sell groups of salvage? Like I said in my original post? Hundreds of clicks to sell salvage? Ho boy. I can clear a full window of common salvage in seconds. And it doesn't take me anywhere near hundreds of clicks.

I can clear a full window of common salvage in seconds too, and I don't even need a vendor. Right click, S. Anything else is a waste of time.

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Boas said:

I can clear a full window of common salvage in seconds too, and I don't even need a vendor. Right click, S. Anything else is a waste of time.

Then why are you claiming (complaining?) that selling common salvage takes hundreds of clicks when you obviously know it doesn't?

 

(Edit: I'm sorry, you said you are deleting common salvage in seconds. Hey, that's your choice to do. Personally, I prefer getting the extra inf' from group selling..)

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Rudra

[Boas]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Methinks you have your expectations for sales way too high.

Yeah, that was the point. Even when white salvage is grossly over-valued, it's still not worth enough to bother with it.

 

Just get rid of it!

[Boas]

Just now, Rudra said:

Then why are you claiming (complaining?) that selling common salvage takes hundreds of clicks when you obviously know it doesn't?

I'm talking about deleting the stack. You're talking about selling it. I don't want to bother selling it, I just want it gone. It's worthless.

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Boas said:

I'm talking about deleting the stack. You're talking about selling it. I don't want to bother selling it, I just want it gone. It's worthless.

And your solution is to take it completely out of the game. Despite the fact that others obviously use it. Like me. Just because you don't like it. This falls under "make the game suit my play style and to hell with anyone else that plays the game".

 

(Edit: And since the OP specifically calls out options for individuals to not get common salvage as unacceptable, you are very much demanding that everyone be forced to play the way you prefer.)

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Rudra

[Boas]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And your solution is to take it completely out of the game. Despite the fact that others obviously use it. Like me. Just because you don't like it. This falls under "make the game suit my play style and to hell with anyone else that plays the game".

 

(Edit: And since the OP specifically calls out options for individuals to not get common salvage as unacceptable, you are very much demanding that everyone be forced to play the way you prefer.)

 

Well, it looks like no one can make any suggestions, because any suggestion that gets implemented would force other players to adhere to a different playstyle. Pack it up, fellas! Just go ahead and delete this whole board!

 

You have absolutely no valid argument for how white salvage contributes to a positive game experience. That's because it doesn't. If white salvage was eliminated from the game entirely, your experience effectively would not change. You'd have to click on menus a bit less. You might make a pittance less inf. That's it.

[megaericzero]

5 minutes ago, Boas said:

Well, it looks like no one can make any suggestions, because any suggestion that gets implemented would force other players to adhere to a different playstyle.

 

But you just dismissed two alternative suggestions that wouldn't force it on people. 🤔

 

1 hour ago, Boas said:

I've seen posts about blocking white salvage drops from the P2W vendor. Posts about an option to mass-sell white salvage.

 

These are cowardly half-measures.

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, Boas said:

Well, it looks like no one can make any suggestions, because any suggestion that gets implemented would force other players to adhere to a different playstyle. Pack it up, fellas! Just go ahead and delete this whole board!

 

You have absolutely no valid argument for how white salvage contributes to a positive game experience. That's because it doesn't. If white salvage was eliminated from the game entirely, your experience effectively would not change. You'd have to click on menus a bit less. You might make a pittance less inf. That's it.

If you had pitched an option players could choose to not get common salvage any more, that would have found general acceptance. Because it is a request for players to be able to play the game the way they want. You said that was a half-measure. So it isn't acceptable. Instead, you want common salvage completely removed from the game without consideration for those of us that use it. Entirely different. You refuse to see that. (Or accept it?) And I'm not going to beat my head against this wall. Good bye.

[Boas]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

If you had pitched an option players could choose to not get common salvage any more, that would have found general acceptance. Because it is a request for players to be able to play the game the way they want. You said that was a half-measure. So it isn't acceptable. Instead, you want common salvage completely removed from the game without consideration for those of us that use it. Entirely different. You refuse to see that. (Or accept it?) And I'm not going to beat my head against this wall. Good bye.

This game is already full of weird little consolations and evasive sub-systems to let players avoid certain mechanics they don't like. Personally, I don't like res insps showing up in my tray, so I turned them off. That's good, because I still want to use inspirations. That makes sense.

 

There is no way for me to NOT engage with white salvage. It is not an opt-in system. Adding another P2W category for salvage drops does not adequately address the problem. White salvage must be excised from the game entirely. It will be eliminated from the auction house, drop tables, and recipe requirements. You have no reason to advocate for its preservation aside from some misplaced sense of nostalgia or knee-jerk contrarianism. I guarantee you will not miss it.

[tidge]

Someone is ready to kick some [Brass] 

[Boas]

33 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

 

But you just dismissed two alternative suggestions that wouldn't force it on people. 🤔

 

Oh, I'd LIKE the option to block white salvage drops... but I still have to procure white salvage for just about every little thing I want to craft. I have to load into an open map from my SG base to access the laggy auction house interface, just to throw a negligible amount of ingame money at this little thing I need. It's just busy work!

I see I'm getting a lot of opposition to this idea. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm confident you all secretly agree with me and see the absolute merit of the points I'm making, and I forgive you.

[Ghost]

Gonna be really hard crafting anything without the white salvage part of the ingredient.

 

Plus, more importantly the Devs don’t have the time it would required.

Sorry.

[Luminara]

9 minutes ago, Boas said:

Why not just make it a straight-up inf transaction? It basically is already, with the tedious extra step of having to spend it on white salvage before you visit the table.

 

14 minutes ago, Boas said:

None of these things couldn't just be a straight-up inf transaction, either.

 

HC invested a lot of time and effort into avoiding, and fixing, the economic problems that existed on the original servers.  Reducing reliance on inf* is one of the things that helps prevent inflation.  Salvage, of all rarities, aids in achieving that goal.  Salvage is an alternative currency, one that exists in parallel with, but is not reliant on, inf*, to make the game more accessible by controlling inflation.

 

If the developers were to remove common salvage and simply raise the inf* costs to compensate, they would be creating barriers which prevent less experienced or financially capable players from accessing various options.  Inf* costs would have to be increased not only by a certain amount to reflect the average value of common salvage based on drop rate and non-bucketed availability, they would also have to be increased to compensate for the loss of that inf* sink on the player market, and to reflect other variables, such as crafted goods being listed less frequently, fewer players being willing to craft goods, and more.

 

That would be bad.  "Bad" meaning inflation gating the game.  While this would not be likely to reach the extent that it did on the original servers, it's important to remember that we have ~5% of the original servers' population and would, therefore, experience a larger impact from smaller inflationary events.

 

Alternative currencies are one of things that prevent inflation.  Alternative currencies reduce the reliance on inf*, reducing the reliance on inf* makes the game more accessible to more players, more players playing feeds into a healthier economy.  Whereas the economy on the original servers made Zimbabwe's problems in the late 2000's seem quaint by comparison, the economy on the HC servers is fluid, dynamic and, above all, accessible to everyone, because the inf* standard was abolished.

 

Said inf* standard is never coming back.  The HC economy works, and part of the reason it works is parallel alternative currencies.  Common salvage isn't going anywhere.

[Boas]

10 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Alternative currencies are one of things that prevent inflation.  Alternative currencies reduce the reliance on inf*, reducing the reliance on inf* makes the game more accessible to more players, more players playing feeds into a healthier economy.  Whereas the economy on the original servers made Zimbabwe's problems in the late 2000's seem quaint by comparison, the economy on the HC servers is fluid, dynamic and, above all, accessible to everyone, because the inf* standard was abolished.

White salvage is not an alternative (or complimentary) currency. It is effectively just a different denomination of inf.

 

Suggesting the HC economy would collapse if white salvage was eliminated is like saying the US economy would collapse if $2 bills were taken out of circulation.

Edited 21 hours ago by Boas

[Rudra]

I'm still trying to process the 'everyone disagrees with me but I know everyone agrees with just in secret' comment....