Robert Kogan's Arc (Major Benjamin's writing quality)

[Steampunkette]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

He's not the mayor.  He's probably more like Maxwell Lord to Countess Crey's Lex Luthor, if you'll pardon the shoehorned analogy, but he's not the mayor.  That's, as of now at least, still Morales.

Morales was Mayor in 2005.

 

Christie is the person behind commissioning BWI, reopening the tram line, and various plaques in Kallisti Wharf. That all indicates he's the Mayor.

 

After all, who else but the mayor can institute policies involving Vanguard in Paragon? The "Safehouse Policy" is not something some private entrepreneur can implement. When he was looking to rebuild the Wharf corporate patronage was important. Patronage doesn't make a lot of sense if he WAS the corporation and not the Mayor. -He- compromised and replaced the PPD with BWI. Some wealthy guy has the ability to do that with the city's funds? Probably not. He also confirmed Adamstown Infirmary as a protected historical site. Something else Mayors have the power to do but not rando corporate interests.

 

Nothing outright -states- he's the mayor. But context clues indicate he's more than a lobbyist.

 

Maybe he's the mayor of the Wharf but not of Paragon? Like how Bower is mayor of Salamanca?

Edited 15 hours ago by Steampunkette

[Darmian]

11 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Morales was Mayor in 2005.

 

Christie is the person behind commissioning BWI, reopening the tram line, and various plaques in Kallisti Wharf. That all indicates he's the Mayor.

 

After all, who else but the mayor can institute policies involving Vanguard in Paragon? The "Safehouse Policy" is not something some private entrepreneur can implement. When he was looking to rebuild the Wharf corporate patronage was important. Patronage doesn't make a lot of sense if he WAS the corporation and not the Mayor. -He- compromised and replaced the PPD with BWI. Some wealthy guy has the ability to do that with the city's funds? Probably not. He also confirmed Adamstown Infirmary as a protected historical site. Something else Mayors have the power to do but not rando corporate interests.

 

Nothing outright -states- he's the mayor. But context clues indicate he's more than a lobbyist.

 

Maybe he's the mayor of the Wharf but not of Paragon? Like how Bower is mayor of Salamanca?

Your reasoning is sound.  I'm just stating that until otherwise noted somewhere, as far as the in world lore goes, Morales remains the mayor. However, Christie doesn't need to be.  Post Rikti War, massive construction of War Walls, lots of power.  Post Praetorian War, lots of damage.  Even with super tech and energy, Paragon must be running on fumes financially.  Someone like Christie CAN get concessions if he's willing to foot bills.  And why become mayor at all when you don't need to?  As far as we know he's not a Wilson Fisk with something to whitewash.

 

As an historical note, Spanky Rabinowitz is stated to have served at least four terms as mayor. That's a minimum of 16 years given a four year term, and was at the heart of Paragon politics for 30 years.  So it's not impossible for Morales to be mayor the entire time, given the slight haziness of "now" in City of Heroes. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Darmian

[El D]

1 hour ago, Steampunkette said:

It absolutely fits that the guy would be bigoted, don't get me wrong. I'd just prefer the layer of allegory to make it obvious and clear without it being potentially painful for some people to experience.

 

Y'all's arguments about centrist superiority or modern politics or bad writing are missing the point by a mile.

 

I know @Steampunkette has mentioned this multiple times so far, but it is a very fair point - especially given the context of 'first time going full mask off' with the dialogue. A lot of the NPC writing in CoH can be threatening or provocative, but overall has never been a direct one-to-one for real harassment players might actually have had thrown at them (at least hopefully not, given what some other NPCs have to say...). Back in the day if you wanted that kind of dialogue, you had to go into PvP zones or the PWNZ forum. Not meant a knock on the writer - if anything that's a sign of how real it is - just emphasizes the point made.

 

A content warning in those cases would be a fair QoL feature for players, I think. The writer gets to write what they intend and any prospective player has enough of an inkling to make an informed choice knowing 'X is Directly Addressed Here.' If someone prefers to avoid the arc for triggering reasons then they can and if someone wants to play the arc for cathartic reasons, they can do that too.

 

Also avoid it if they think the writing might be bad, I suppose, but that's entirely subjective. For example, I still think the dialogue works given the nature of the 5th Column. Specifically in how they'd recruit the rank and file. The dude is exactly the kind of blowhard who'd join the literal nazis out of insecurity. Despite being mad science'd into becoming an 'idealized' overly muscled man-mountain with the skills of Bruce Lee combined with The Terminator, he's still an insecure loser. That didn't change because that's the core of who the guy is, what drove him to that in the first place. A supersoldier who looks like Broly in leather pants talking about 'biological essentialism' nonsense, much less as if he's actually any kind of example, and still getting beat down anyway is directly highlighting how lame the guys who'd do that stuff are. Even in a space where these jerks actually can embody their warped, hypocritical ideals, they're still pathetic.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

Your reasoning is sound.  I'm just stating that until otherwise noted somewhere, as far as the in world lore goes, Morales remains the mayor. However, Christie doesn't need to be.  Post Rikti War, massive construction of War Walls, lots of power.  Post Praetorian War, lots of damage.  Even with super tech and energy, Paragon must be running on fumes financially.  Someone like Christie CAN get concessions if he's willing to foot bills.  And why become mayor at all when you don't need to?  As far as we know he's not a Wilson Fisk with something to whitewash.

This runs into the problem of there having been signs of "Christie for mayor" scattered in the game before Shutdown, the (admittedly rare) pre-KW content making passing references to Christie being mayor, and now the added KW content. Morales is the mayor, but what is there saying that Christie wasn't mayor before? I want to say that Morales became mayor "recently", either as background lore for when the game launched or as passing reference some time during Live. (I think there were even comments made, though I don't remember from whom, about an election that was going to come up back on Live. And of course, there was no election. At least not one I am aware that was made available to players.)

 

 

 

 

And as far as the comments about Major Benjamin's dialogue being too close to reality? I hate to tell you, but things like "real men eat meat!" and other tropes have been around for far longer than the current political climate. People calling out new innovations as a weakening of people has been around since man started innovating and progressing. Sure, it seems to be encapsulated by the current political climate, but people have been screaming about it for far longer than you seem to realize. (Hells, look back at commercials from the 60s. Some really boggle the mind like the "DDT is good for me" one, but you will still see things like "Real men eat MEAT!".

 

[Darmian]

10 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This runs into the problem of there having been signs of "Christie for mayor" scattered in the game before Shutdown, the (admittedly rare) pre-KW content making passing references to Christie being mayor

Where is this referenced? I'm not going to say I know the game better than you or anyone else, but I've never seen it and if it is there I'd like to know where.

 

Are you missing a quote in the second part of your reply?  There's a visible gap and your answer refers to things I didn't mention so it looks like the forum glitched on you. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time!

 

EDIT:  An update.  One of the plaques (#17) for the Bicentennial Badge lists Ignacio Morales as the mayor.  So as of the nebulous now of COH, Morales is the Mayor.

Edited 12 hours ago by Darmian

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Where is this referenced? I'm not going to say I know the game better than you or anyone else, but I've never seen it and if it is there I'd like to know where.

Run around Paragon City and look at all the billboards. You will still see Christie election billboards. I don't make a point of remembering where specific billboards are, but unless they were replaced when some zones were updated, they will still be there. As for the rare Christie comments? I don't remember what specific missions or other references addressed him. It's not something I thought was worth trying to remember. And the comments aren't specific, just vague references in passing.

 

16 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Are you missing a quote in the second part of your reply?  There's a visible gap and your answer refers to things I didn't mention so it looks like the forum glitched on you. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time!

Nope, no quote. Just wanted to place an obvious separator so that part of the post would not be held as part of my response to you.

 

Edit:

  

16 minutes ago, Darmian said:

EDIT:  An update.  One of the plaques (#17) for the Bicentennial Badge lists Ignacio Morales as the mayor.  So as of the nebulous now of COH, Morales is the Mayor.

Not disputing Morales being current mayor. Him being current mayor isn't part of my comment. That Christie used to be mayor is.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Rudra

[Vic Raiden]

Nothing stopping Christie for having been mayor in an interim between two of Morales' terms, I think.

5 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Maybe he's the mayor of the Wharf but not of Paragon? Like how Bower is mayor of Salamanca?

Except Salamanca is a separate town and not a district of Paragon City.

[Snarky]

We should solve this now.  
 

Snarky for Mayor!

 

Please donate to the election fund @Snarky

 

Together we can win this 😁

[Vic Raiden]

Screw it, I'm voting Michael White instead. Brought police corruption down to zero, surely he can do the same to government corruption.