Marine Affinity Brine question

[Tankshock]

Seems pretty skippable.  Am I missing something?  Is it meaningful in AV fights?

Thanks

[Glacier Peak]

Depends on what you're after. I love it and focused my build towards maximizing it's effectiveness. 

[evetsleep]

7 hours ago, Tankshock said:

Seems pretty skippable.  Am I missing something?  Is it meaningful in AV fights?

Thanks

-Res and stackable -MaxHP can be super useful.  I personally always take it. Any bosses, EB's, and AV's are always getting repeated applications.

 

Marine is a fantastic set and if you find yourself in a tight build I can see skipping it, but I'd advise against it.

[Tankshock]

Seems like it's up against Psychic Tornado, World of Confusion, Indom Will, or Mind over Body.

 

[Seed22]

7 hours ago, Tankshock said:

Seems pretty skippable.  Am I missing something?  Is it meaningful in AV fights?

Thanks

Its -30 res(on defender). Absolutely objectively NOT skippable. The -HP in CB used to be better as a 10% non resistable -HP thing which was awesome but eh that was in testing. 
 

the HP now is..well its ok. But the res is what you want

Edited Friday at 12:28 AM by Seed22

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Its -30 res(on defender). Absolutely objectively NOT skippable.

Remember, though, that the defense against resistance drain is Resistance, so a target with 90% resistance resists 90% of that -30, making it -3 Resistance.

[Maelwys]

4 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Remember, though, that the defense against resistance drain is Resistance, so a target with 90% resistance resists 90% of that -30, making it -3 Resistance.

And inflicting that extra -3 means that you deal 30% additional damage on that enemy compared to what you were previously able to.

[Tankshock]

For anyone who actually has it on a 50, do you notice it's effect vs AV?  I hate giving up one of those Psi Mastery powers, unfortunately everything has an opportunity cost once your build gets to a certain point.  I guess I could also drop Flashfire instead.

[twozerofoxtrot]

11 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

For anyone who actually has it on a 50, do you notice it's effect vs AV?

 

Yes.

 

I also stack it with shoal rush and Whitecap.

 

Even not at 50, it has an appreciable effect on TF AVs, especially with repeat applications due to Shifting Tides. 

[Forager]

5 hours ago, Maelwys said:

And inflicting that extra -3 means that you deal 30% additional damage on that enemy compared to what you were previously able to.

 

But me see little number! See little number mean number NOT big!

[Maelwys]

26 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

But me see little number! See little number mean number NOT big!

3 

3

3

3

 

 

...better? 🙂

[Tankshock]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Yes.

 

I also stack it with shoal rush and Whitecap.

 

Even not at 50, it has an appreciable effect on TF AVs, especially with repeat applications due to Shifting Tides. 

Thanks.  What does Shoal Rush do for you against an AV?

 

[Maelwys]

28 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Thanks.  What does Shoal Rush do for you against an AV?

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=boosts.crafted_achilles_heel_c.crafted_achilles_heel_c&at=defender

[Uun]

Brine's -res (30% on defenders) is nice, but it's the -hp that shreds hard targets. Fully enhanced, it removes 522 hp (defender) per application. Not only does it stack, but each stack of Shifting Tides reduces Brine's recharge by 15s, making it easy to get multiple stacks going. While it's not as noticeable on an iTrial or against Reichsmann, on a generic AV, that's a big dent.

 

14 hours ago, Tankshock said:

Seems like it's up against Psychic Tornado, World of Confusion, Indom Will, or Mind over Body.

World of Confusion is hot garbage.

[Tankshock]

8 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=boosts.crafted_achilles_heel_c.crafted_achilles_heel_c&at=defender

Isn't the proc rate pretty low in Shoal?  Something like 3% res debuff, before AV mod?

[Tankshock]

4 minutes ago, Uun said:

Brine's -res (30% on defenders) is nice, but it's the -hp that shreds hard targets. Fully enhanced, it removes 522 hp (defender) per application. Not only does it stack, but each stack of Shifting Tides reduces Brine's recharge by 15s, making it easy to get multiple stacks going. While it's not as noticeable on an iTrial or against Reichsmann, on a generic AV, that's a big dent.

 

World of Confusion is hot garbage.

Thanks.  Doesn't the -hp scale down as the AV takes damage?  I can def see where it's still useful though, esp with 15 sec recharge.  Anyone know how many times it stacks?

Not sure about the hot garbage.  But I built for Ranged Defense, so it's the best of the purple sets for me.  Still, I'm not married to it.

[Maelwys]

8 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Isn't the proc rate pretty low in Shoal?  Something like 3% res debuff, before AV mod?

Nope.



That's a 56.75% chance to proc per Shoal.
AH lasts for 10s and you can typically get two Shoals off in that time; so a ~81.2% likelihood of proccing its -20% res at least once.
 

[Maelwys]

  

36 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Doesn't the -hp scale down as the AV takes damage? 

No, it applies a flat -267.7 MaxHP (before enhancements on a Defender) regardless of whatever your target is.
That means it can practically one-shot a minion, but it'll tickle an AV unless you stack it.

The -res debuff on the other hand, is excellent versus AVs.

  

36 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Anyone know how many times it stacks?

It stacks with itself as many times as you want.
Each stack only lasts for 15 60 seconds though.
 

  

36 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

49 minutes ago, Uun said:

World of Confusion is hot garbage.

Not sure about the hot garbage.  

WoC really isn't great.

The time between its ticks is considerably longer than the maximum enhanced duration. And it's only Mag2. You can kinda-sorta get it to a worthwhile state via a Contagious Confusion proc if you also stack it with another AoE Confuse effect like Ice Control's Arctic Air (and/or an AoE with the Cupid's proc). But it's a lot of work.
 

Edited Friday at 03:03 PM by Maelwys

[Tankshock]

20 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

  

It stacks with itself as many times as you want.
Each stack only lasts for 15 seconds though.
 

  
 

 

Thank you for checking my numbers.  CoD seems to show that the HP debuff lasts 60 seconds, which would allow for a lot of stacks.  Is that wrong?

[Maelwys]

2 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

 

Thank you for checking my numbers.  CoD seems to show that the HP debuff lasts 60 seconds, which would allow for a lot of stacks.  Is that wrong?

Meh. Yes, apologies, the HP debuff is 60s duration per stack. 
The 15 sec is the amount of recharge time shaved off per stack of Shifting Tides.
(Note to self: Don't browse CoD in the middle of a CAB meeting...)

[Tankshock]

lol.  So with global and a healing set we're looking at 12 stacks of -450ish?  That's pretty meaningful.

[Maelwys]

46 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

lol.  So with global and a healing set we're looking at 12 stacks of -450ish?  That's pretty meaningful.

Level 50 AV Hitpoint count (without any extra buffs like Shadow Hunter's Earth's Embrace) is 28271.7

You can technically shave ~5400 off that, sure... but if you apply -MaxHP whenever the target has already taken damage then their actual HP won't drop by the full amount (if they have 50% HP left then applying another -540 MaxHP would only drop their CURRENT HP by 270). Therefore -MaxHP debuffs become less impactful as the fight wears on. It does still have a constant non-negligible effect on passive regeneration though.

 

Edited Friday at 03:59 PM by Maelwys

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Tankshock said:

lol.  So with global and a healing set we're looking at 12 stacks of -450ish?  That's pretty meaningful.

I typically top out at 4 or 5 stacks.

[Frosticus]

Its a good power. I invested in it on all 4 Marine builds I'm running. 

 

The -hp is proportional to the hp your target has, but it still does more 'damage' than most of your attacks for the majority of the health range*

 

I deprioritize it as the target gets low on hp. 

 

*especially true for defs, trollers and mms, but once corrs start scourging I focus on real attacks

 

I also use it as a st attack because Marine needs at least 8 powers so I don't have extra room to allocate to situational powers.

 

Worth noting is that if your target is going to live for over a minute the -hp stacking is of less value. Still better than a t1 attack usually though, especially as it rolls nictus proc way better than any t1.

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 07:15 PM by Frosticus

[Frosticus]

Also shoal procs like garbage.

The above info is incorrect

 

Its actually 14.23% on Achilles/3.5 ppms