page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] New Melee Set - Sonic Melee

[Sovera]

28 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

I have all my click Incarnate stuff on the second row starting at 2 (Hyrbid, Destiny, Judgement, and Lore in that order). So, alt 2-5 are my incarnate things. I have Attune at 1. So it's pretty easy for me, muscle-memory wise, to just do Alt+1.

 

This was what helped me with Attune. I complained about the muscles memory too and pressing it as if it was an attack when it's a toggle. But, like you, I have a second row where my buffs go like Build-up. So I placed it there and it sank into my mind it was a buff rather than an attack which cut down on muscle memory.

[Captain Powerhouse]

For what it's worth I do personally also have some issues with the toggle. I mentioned this just now in Discord but mainly my issues are two:

 

• Double tap accidental shutdown
• Hard-ish to decide to remove from one target and move to the next because it requires double tapping to turn off and on again, and that later can compound big time with the first point.

As some have noted, I just tend to keep Attune in a separate bar (where I keep Build Up/aim/etc) where I only click with very intentional timing and rarely more than once (the game queues the attack so multi-tapping is not really needed... oddly if you a mouse clicker (the way I can be) not all mouse clicks register so I still have issues with that regardless unless I alt-num.

 

The second I really have no easy solution unless I can come up with a scheme that lets me do what I want without a toggle. 

I still prefer the current implementation than the refreshing click as constantly refreshing on a hard target is even more annoying than the previous two issues for me. I detest that about Disintegration and Boogle. Plus I really like the dots go up with fury or with Boost Up or Inspiration usage without having to refresh Attune after a Boost Up use.

 

Anyways all of this is saying, even if it's not entirely the same reasons some of you dislike it, I can sympathize on wanting a non-toggle solution. But honestly also feel the toggle is a way better state to roll out with than an awkward constant refreshing click [and making the state last forever as a click is not likely to fly as all it does is make players feel like they need to start clicking it on everything].

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

For what it's worth I do personally also have some issues with the toggle. I mentioned this just now in Discord but mainly my issues are two:

 

• Double tap accidental shutdown
• Hard-ish to decide to remove from one target and move to the next because it requires double tapping to turn off and on again, and that later can compound big time with the first point.

As some have noted, I just tend to keep Attune in a separate bar (where I keep Build Up/aim/etc) where I only click with very intentional timing and rarely more than once (the game queues the attack so multi-tapping is not really needed... oddly if you a mouse clicker (the way I can be) not all mouse clicks register so I still have issues with that regardless unless I alt-num.

 

The second I really have no easy solution unless I can come up with a scheme that lets me do what I want without a toggle. 

I still prefer the current implementation than the refreshing click as constantly refreshing on a hard target is even more annoying than the previous two issues for me. I detest that about Disintegration and Boogle. Plus I really like the dots go up with fury or with Boost Up or Inspiration usage without having to refresh Attune after a Boost Up use.

 

Anyways all of this is saying, even if it's not entirely the same reasons some of you dislike it, I can sympathize on wanting a non-toggle solution. But honestly also feel the toggle is a way better state to roll out with than an awkward constant refreshing click [and making the state last forever as a click is not likely to fly as all it does is make players feel like they need to start clicking it on everything].

A self aura toggle that applies individual DOT per attack used fixes all of these issues though. Is there some reason it can't just be done like this with long DOT on the ST powers that caps at 2 dot's used by any ST attack?

[Captain Powerhouse]

A self aura would be a completely different thing that would likely force the entire set to be rebalanced as we are now talking about an AoE effect. 

It's not unlike asking for Disintegrate and Boggle to be AoE also.

 

If you mean a toggle that simply enables the effect, again we entering similar situation of entirely tossing the concept of attunement against chosen targets and making it a second booster. 

And if you mean an aura with a single target, there is currently no reliable way in the game to make sure that single target is YOUR target. Especially if there was another Sonic Melee character around.

Even if we considered any of these, keep in mind we are talking about post-launch adjustments, not any change before launch but it the first two options are entirely not within the scope of the set goals.

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

A self aura would be a completely different thing that would likely force the entire set to be rebalanced as we are now talking about an AoE effect. 

It's not unlike asking for Disintegrate and Boggle to be AoE also.

 

If you mean a toggle that simply enables the effect, again we entering similar situation of entirely tossing the concept of attunement against chosen targets and making it a second booster. 

And if you mean an aura with a single target, there is currently no reliable way in the game to make sure that single target is YOUR target. Especially if there was another Sonic Melee character around.

Even if we considered any of these, keep in mind we are talking about post-launch adjustments, not any change before launch but it the first two options are entirely not within the scope of the set goals.

So it's not possible to have an aura that even just triggers the DOT on single target attacks only (no aoe), with replacing effects for any two ST attacks used?

[Alchemystic]

I'm in favor of the AoE solution.

We already have Spines and Radiation Melee with a DoT aura, while it's uncommon it still has precedent. It would be far more user friendly to have something that can be activated once and affects enemies nearby, rather than selecting one enemy and re-toggling each time they are defeated or target priority changes.

 

If it doesn't seem to work, keep Attune in your back pocket for Sonic Aura perhaps? If it's proving too difficult to balance or overcome current technical hurdles, you can always tweak the power to work as an AoE toggle for an aura powerset instead, in practicality it still would be a melee-focused ability.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:47 PM by Alchemystic

[Captain Powerhouse]

A single target aura would either hit a random thing around you or have a requirement that something set the flag on the target and we are back at square one PLUS any other sonic melee user could break the whole thing because now there are possibly multiple valid targets and the power starts randomly picking one.

If it was possible to control such power's target to cooperate with the player, the power would had already be turned into a click power that pseudopet that effectively does the same without sacrificing the goal.

 

Trying to jump into the spaghetti code to add something that lets me do something akin to that is one of my hopes during the downtime period.

[mistagoat]

I made a Sonic/SR Scrapper

I made an Axe/SR Scrapper

I ran Galaxy Brain at level 30. +1x1

 

I used this build on both toons with 1 exception, The Makos were swapped to Oblits on the Axe:

 

Here are the Axe/SR stats:

 

Here are the Sonic/SR stats:

 

 

 

 

 

[Bionic_Flea]

That's good testing right there!

 

What app did you use to tally your combat data?

[mistagoat]

12 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

That's good testing right there!

 

What app did you use to tally your combat data?

That is Sythlin DPS Tool, can't say enough good things about it!

https://discord.com/channels/1356072348742189259/1356072898485551217

[bAss_ackwards]

3 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

• Double tap accidental shutdown
• Hard-ish to decide to remove from one target and move to the next because it requires double tapping to turn off and on again, and that later can compound big time with the first point.

 

For switching targets, could the power be made 0 or very low recharge and putting it on another target turns off the previous instance?

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

It already is:

[Championess]

Yeah the double-click annoyance would play out by way of that animation time.  The time it takes to animate that toggle an Energy Melee stalker likely already killed that boss target with a 2-piece combination of TF, fast ET or AS.

 

Its not that its a bad idea, its just managing that animation time and possibility of misclicks should come with benefits the harder the target that other sets with much simpler chains seem like they can already attain.

Edited 20 hours ago by Championess

[Captain Powerhouse]

1 hour ago, bAss_ackwards said:

For switching targets, could the power be made 0 or very low recharge and putting it on another target turns off the previous instance?

It was changed to half a second recharge a few builds ago.

 

Oh... .25? I thought it was half... hate being wrong (as many will attest) so going to nerf recharge and double it to 0.5s!!! (joking)

[Bionic_Flea]

I've played some more of my sonic/NRG brute.  Did a few missions in Croatoa in the 30s and then started going up a level or two every mission.  When I got to mid 30s I moved to RWZ and stayed all the way to 50+

 

It works . . . OK.  It's not great.  Having to tab around to find a boss is especially detrimental to a brute that wants to keep their Fury high.  So those few seconds breaks the rhythm between spawns.  Once I find one, it works OK.  Target boss with Attune clicked, it goes off when I get close enough, then Whisper (for the -res), Earsplitter, Echo, Thrust to get those DoTs going and to wait for things to close in, then AoEs of Wave, Clap with a FF +recharge proc, and my Epic AoEs (I went Mu).  If the bosses are purple to me, I might need to start that rotation again.  But at even level and +1, the minions die to the AoE about the same time as a boss if not before, leaving any other boss or Lts with limited HP.

 

I wish I could activate Attune from further away.  That would allow me to start attacking a second or two sooner and I could also use it as a pull.  I'd also love if it did a little bit of -def.  That would make it great against high defense things like Paragon Protectors, and to the new higher level +5 to +7 critters.  I tried some +5 and +6 Rikti and it took forever because a Guardian was giving out bubbles and tanked my ability to hit without Sound Booster or yellows.  I may need to add a Kismet +tohit proc to more of my characters.  Attune could also be a great place to slot Achilles, which would up the damage even more, but even if it just did some -def without the ability to slot -def sets would be welcome.  

Edited 20 hours ago by Bionic_Flea

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

It works . . . OK.  It's not great.  Having to tab around to find a boss is especially detrimental to a brute that wants to keep their Fury high.  So those few seconds breaks the rhythm between spawns.  Once I find one, it works OK.  Target boss with Attune clicked, it goes off when I get close enough, then Whisper (for the -res), Earsplitter, Echo, Thrust to get those DoTs going and to wait for things to close in, then AoEs of Wave, Clap with a FF +recharge proc, and my Epic AoEs (I went Mu).  If the bosses are purple to me, I might need to start that rotation again.  But at even level and +1, the minions die to the AoE about the same time as a boss if not before, leaving any other boss or Lts with limited HP.

 

Unrelated to the issue at hand, but toggling on names and HP bars (this can be macroed on and off) allows to spot bosses at a glance rather than relying on tabbing.

[Bionic_Flea]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Unrelated to the issue at hand, but toggling on names and HP bars

 

I almost always have a /targetname macro, and I thought about using it for Attune, but one for all the bosses seemed like a lot of names.  Is there a way to target based on HP?

[Captain Powerhouse]

These changes are not out in beta yet but just in case the patch lands while im in lala land and no notes are posted, this is what SHOULD be on the next patch:

 

Sonic Melee

• Attune
  • Adjusted vfx
  • Cast time reduced from 1.67s to 1s
  • Range increased to 20ft

[Shin Magmus]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

These changes are not out in beta yet but just in case the patch lands while im in lala land and no notes are posted, this is what SHOULD be on the next patch:

 

Sonic Melee

• Attune
  • Adjusted vfx
  • Cast time reduced from 1.67s to 1s
  • Range increased to 20ft

     These are literally the kinds of changes that make a set less annoying to play, and are therefore among the most impactful to the average player.  Finally, if you see a boss you want to start Attune on, you can do it without walking up to kiss them on the mouth, saving time and enabling you to stay in the middle of the pack for Deafening Wave placement.  Making the startup of the Toggle be as fast as possible reduces both the literal downtime and the tedium of having to repeatedly toggle Attune on multiple enemies in a fight.  These are the kinds of things I would've made as fast and friction-less for the player as possible before committing to the concept of Attune at all.  We have now successfully accomplished Step 1 of Sonic Melee.

[Sovera]

8 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

I almost always have a /targetname macro, and I thought about using it for Attune, but one for all the bosses seemed like a lot of names.  Is there a way to target based on HP?

 

No, but, if having the names/bars enabled then unless if fighting +5 then the boss will always be a different color (even mobs = all white, lieuts yellow, boss orange, etc).

[mistagoat]

Sonic/SR Scrap vs Axe/SR Scrap at level 40

Galaxy Brain Office mission at +2x1 w/bosses

 

Both toons use the same build with 1 exception, Oblits in Cleave swap to Makos in Earsplitter:

 

Here are Sonic/SR stats:

 

 

Here are Axe/SR stats:

 

I ran the sonic several times and there were no significant changes in the results.

I'll try to do another run at 50.