Elec/Shield Archtype?

[Taemeluch]

Ok. Let me see if I can get this thing back in track.

 

Let's say I'm a brand new 50 elec/shield with little to no IOs.

 

What would be the best rotation for BU, AaO, and any other power I use before I telenuke? What about if I have sub optimal IOs? Top end IOs?

 

I use numbers to an example would greatly be appreciated also. Like if LR did 100 to all enemies doing these powers this way gives you 300% damage.

[MunkiLord]

Ok. Let me see if I can get this thing back in track.

 

Let's say I'm a brand new 50 elec/shield with little to no IOs.

 

What would be the best rotation for BU, AaO, and any other power I use before I telenuke? What about if I have sub optimal IOs? Top end IOs?

 

I use numbers to an example would greatly be appreciated also. Like if LR did 100 to all enemies doing these powers this way gives you 300% damage.

 

This will vary for my Scrapper depending on circumstances and my role on the team.

 

On steamroller teams with lots of AoEs, I don't typically prioritize maxing AAO since travel times between mobs very well might be the biggest hurdle to clear time.

 

If I am the highest damage dealer, I'll generally jump in the mob get AAO going then nuke.

 

If I'm playing pretend tank I'll lead with nukes just for the extra knockdown. If mobs are tightly packed I'll jump back and forth to keep damage buff and then get them to crowd around me.

 

If I'm doing a farm with bosses, AAO is a top priority for me cuz killing them is slow. If I'm running without bosses I'll just hit as many mobs as fast as I can since they die so fast.

 

If course a Kin changes everything if they Fulcrum Shift me to the damage cap.

[Coyote]

Ok. Let me see if I can get this thing back in track.

 

Let's say I'm a brand new 50 elec/shield with little to no IOs.

 

What would be the best rotation for BU, AaO, and any other power I use before I telenuke? What about if I have sub optimal IOs? Top end IOs?

 

I use numbers to an example would greatly be appreciated also. Like if LR did 100 to all enemies doing these powers this way gives you 300% damage.

 

This will vary for my Scrapper depending on circumstances and my role on the team.

 

On steamroller teams with lots of AoEs, I don't typically prioritize maxing AAO since travel times between mobs very well might be the biggest hurdle to clear time.

 

If I am the highest damage dealer, I'll generally jump in the mob get AAO going then nuke.

 

If I'm playing pretend tank I'll lead with nukes just for the extra knockdown. If mobs are tightly packed I'll jump back and forth to keep damage buff and then get them to crowd around me.

 

If I'm doing a farm with bosses, AAO is a top priority for me cuz killing them is slow. If I'm running without bosses I'll just hit as many mobs as fast as I can since they die so fast.

 

If course a Kin changes everything if they Fulcrum Shift me to the damage cap.

 

Exactly this.

Not exactly as in the specific tactics, but exactly as in "what is optimal VARIES depending on the situation". Stara, you are being too narrow and argumentative to keep saying that you're providing the "most optimal" strategy, and no one else should ever put out any other strategy as being optimal, even when the reality is that optimal strategies often vary based on the situation.

 

Sometimes you need to open with an AoE knockdown. Sometimes you have damage buffs on you. Sometimes you have Recharge buffs on you. It is often optimal long-term DPS to let AAO activate before using the nukes, but it is sometimes more optimal to open with the nukes and minimize the return alpha strike. But the idea is that optimal VARIES, and telling people that you know the ONE TRUE WAY to do better damage, unless you're talking about the targeting dummies, is being too restrictive. There are many gameplay situations where opening up differently than your usual opening may actually be more efficient.

[Auroxis]

People seem to have missed some posts and numbers so I'll lay them all out in my last post here.

 

We're talking about an Elec/Shield Stalker

 

Lightning Rod/Shield Charge cap out at +300% damage. I've personally tested to confirm this.

 

Enhancements +95%

Musculature +25%

Set Bonuses/Assault +20% (can go up to over 40%)

Build Up +80%

Gaussian's Proc +80% (90% chance to proc)

Total damage buffs = +300%

 

AAO with 10 targets on top of you = +65% damage, but effectively 0% because of the damage cap on LR/SC, 90% of the time (when gauss procs)

To activate AAO on Stalker you need to break Hide, which takes time depending on the attack you chose. (LR/SC don't break hide)

To saturate AAO you need to move into the pack, which takes longer than tele-nuking into it.

 

Example build, similar to the one I'm using on Live

 

 

[Taemeluch]

Ok. I think this all makes sense. Thank you.

[Kruunch]

 

I think Stalker is the clear winner if you're picking solely on versatility, and Scrapper if you want slightly better AoE damage.  Brutes and Tanks are fine with these sets too, since they are generally just powerful powersets, but Stalkers and Scrappers make the most of them.

 

For Elec/Shield, Stalker beats Scrapper (and Brute) every time and in every way.

 

AOE wise, you have Lightning Rod and then Shield Charge (neither can crit) for both, but following up with Thunderstrike, you have a 50% chance to crit per target hit with a Stalker (LR and SC don't break stealth for some broken reason).

 

Same goes for Jacob's Ladder.

 

Coming out of the same rotation, the single target attacks are guaranteed crits.

 

Add in Assassin Strike crits to your rotation and the follow up crit (assuming Stalker ATO) and that makes Stalker the clear winner damage wise.

[Kruunch]

Also Lightning Rod and Shield Charge don't break hide apparently, so you can nuke with those and then still auto crit with another high damage attack. Knowing what I know now, I wish I could change my Elec/SD Scrapper to a a Stalker.

That is absurd

Are you implying that a Lightning Rod, Shield Charge, Spring attack wombo combo is not the stealthiest means to assassinate someone known to man?

 

Dammit got coffee all over my screen!

[Kruunch]

You don't need AAO for your telenukes. Build Up+Gauss proc is more than enough damage, and clears faster so your teammates don't waste their nukes while you go in and set up with AAO.

 

This is just bad advice.  If you're worried about clear speed and nuke overlap, then use one per spawn instead of both at the same time.  The reason you take shield defense is for AAO, and avoiding using it on the highest potential damage powers is a very poor use of the powerset. Change your playstyle to maximize your output to better serve your team instead of settling. As a stalker you have the unique opportunity to actually utilize these powers with timing and finesse better than any other AT with the same powers.

 

Also, you should use Buildup on top of AAO.  What are you even talking about.

 

You're contradicting yourself. First you say use one per spawn, then you say you should avoid wasting damage buffs like AAO while ignoring the fact that wasting BU is way worse.

 

Build Up + Gaussian's proc is a massive damage buff of +160%. On a high-end build with Musculature and global damage buffs, your Lightning Rod/Shield Charge are at around +140% or more. So +300% already, before AAO. Assuming pseudo-pets aren't capped at +300%/400% (not sure if they changed it), a fully saturated AAO is only giving you about an effective 16% overall damage buff(465/400) once you stack it with all your other damage buffs.

 

AAO is a great power and it's a shame we can't use it comfortably on a stalker, but I'd say ignoring the mobility and speed of telenukes is just as equally bad advice, or even worse considering how powerful BU+Gaussian's Proc is in the PPM proc era so you don't need AAO nearly as much as before.

 

A good balance would be using AAO+LR for one pack, and AAO+BU+SC for another, but I still prefer using BU+Gauss to its full potential by using both nukes, and letting AAO carry my damage when nukes are recharging.

 

Is everyone making their Stalkers with no +recharge? Mine has +160% recharge ... LR/SC/SA every pack (multiple times per pack when doing +4/+8s).

 

The only downside I can think of doing it Stara's way (and they are right on the benefits of adding AAO to the telenuke chain) is that you run the possibility of eating an alpha and it's slower moving pack to pack. Starting the chain with the telenukes entirely negates that. So I'd say play to flavor.

 

I will try both and compare though, because I like the idea of ending a telenuke chain one boss down.

[Taemeluch]

 

Please let me know. I would like this info.

You don't need AAO for your telenukes. Build Up+Gauss proc is more than enough damage, and clears faster so your teammates don't waste their nukes while you go in and set up with AAO.

 

This is just bad advice.  If you're worried about clear speed and nuke overlap, then use one per spawn instead of both at the same time.  The reason you take shield defense is for AAO, and avoiding using it on the highest potential damage powers is a very poor use of the powerset. Change your playstyle to maximize your output to better serve your team instead of settling. As a stalker you have the unique opportunity to actually utilize these powers with timing and finesse better than any other AT with the same powers.

 

Also, you should use Buildup on top of AAO.  What are you even talking about.

 

You're contradicting yourself. First you say use one per spawn, then you say you should avoid wasting damage buffs like AAO while ignoring the fact that wasting BU is way worse.

 

Build Up + Gaussian's proc is a massive damage buff of +160%. On a high-end build with Musculature and global damage buffs, your Lightning Rod/Shield Charge are at around +140% or more. So +300% already, before AAO. Assuming pseudo-pets aren't capped at +300%/400% (not sure if they changed it), a fully saturated AAO is only giving you about an effective 16% overall damage buff(465/400) once you stack it with all your other damage buffs.

 

AAO is a great power and it's a shame we can't use it comfortably on a stalker, but I'd say ignoring the mobility and speed of telenukes is just as equally bad advice, or even worse considering how powerful BU+Gaussian's Proc is in the PPM proc era so you don't need AAO nearly as much as before.

 

A good balance would be using AAO+LR for one pack, and AAO+BU+SC for another, but I still prefer using BU+Gauss to its full potential by using both nukes, and letting AAO carry my damage when nukes are recharging.

 

Is everyone making their Stalkers with no +recharge? Mine has +160% recharge ... LR/SC/SA every pack (multiple times per pack when doing +4/+8s).

 

The only downside I can think of doing it Stara's way (and they are right on the benefits of adding AAO to the telenuke chain) is that you run the possibility of eating an alpha. Starting the chain with the telenukes entirely negates that. So I'd say play to flavor.

 

I will try both and compare though, because I like the idea of ending a telenuke chain one boss down.

[Murcielago]

Wow this thread went south fast. 

 

Also Scrappers should get Super Strength. 

[ed_anger]

2 hours ago, Murcielago said:

Wow this thread went south fast. 

 

Also Scrappers should get Super Strength. 

fyi we can block people now 😉

[MunkiLord]

4 hours ago, Murcielago said:

Also Scrappers should get Super Strength. 

This

[Murcielago]

3 hours ago, ed_anger said:

fyi we can block people now 😉

Don't block people, report them. Save the community from rude folks. SUMMON YOUR INNER HERO!

[ed_anger]

1 hour ago, Murcielago said:

Don't block people, report them. Save the community from rude folks. SUMMON YOUR INNER HERO!

Reported.

 

J/K

 

It's hard to report pointlessly argumentative people, and now I don't have hear them. You're free to do what you want.

[MunkiLord]

Just now, ed_anger said:

Reported.

 

J/K

 

It's hard to report pointlessly argumentative people, and now I don't have hear them. You're free to do what you want.

YOU ARE WRONG!!!!

Not really, you're cool.

[Kruunch]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

YOU ARE WRONG!!!!

Always amazes me when people are having a debate and they seem to only see that, instead of what is actually being said. 😣

[Croax]

Back to topic (somehow):

Did i read right that every Elec/Shield should be a Stalker?

 

Double Telenuke and Assasinstrike the remaining, at every mob pack?

 

That sounds broken...

[Coyote]

Well. Electric should be Stalker because it covers up their main weakness, which is single-target damage. It also has great AoE for Stalkers, so it's definitely a good option to run it as a Stalker.

/Shield works for all ATs, but again... Stalkers lack AoE, so I always prefer armor sets that add to AoE damage, either with direct damage powers like Shield Charge, or AoE life-drain powers that can be slotted with damage procs, or with damage buffs (like Against All Odds) that scale with opponent numbers.

[Kruunch]

3 hours ago, Croax said:

Back to topic (somehow):

Did i read right that every Elec/Shield should be a Stalker?

 

Double Telenuke and Assasinstrike the remaining, at every mob pack?

 

That sounds broken...

Yeah I made a Scrapper version of this build, which was derived from an Elec/EA Brute I made. I was so in enthralled by Lightning Rod, I wanted a character that could chain together a bunch of these types of attacks.

 

The Scrapper version works really well, but it felt like more of a minion/LT clearer then the complete package. With Elec having fairly weak single target attacks, mopping up the bosses started becoming tedious.

 

Then I read that the telenukes don't break stealth, which meant guaranteed crits coming out of the telenuke chain and that just seemed flat busted. And it most definitely is 😂

 

Then I blundered into the Gaussian's trick (single slotting Build Up with Gaussian's Chance for BU + Stalker ATO Chance for BU Refresh) and that was just .... more broke.

 

Just for added brokeness, if you come out of the telenuke chain with Thunderstike, it crits on A LOT of (remaining) mobs.

 

So yeah of the melee ATs, Stalker is far and away the best to carry this combo off.

[Murcielago]

On 7/25/2019 at 3:10 PM, ed_anger said:

Reported.

 

J/K

 

It's hard to report pointlessly argumentative people, and now I don't have hear them. You're free to do what you want.

Once arguments become personal is when I report people. 

[Murcielago]

10 hours ago, Kruunch said:

Yeah I made a Scrapper version of this build, which was derived from an Elec/EA Brute I made. I was so in enthralled by Lightning Rod, I wanted a character that could chain together a bunch of these types of attacks.

 

The Scrapper version works really well, but it felt like more of a minion/LT clearer then the complete package. With Elec having fairly weak single target attacks, mopping up the bosses started becoming tedious.

 

Then I read that the telenukes don't break stealth, which meant guaranteed crits coming out of the telenuke chain and that just seemed flat busted. And it most definitely is 😂

 

Then I blundered into the Gaussian's trick (single slotting Build Up with Gaussian's Chance for BU + Stalker ATO Chance for BU Refresh) and that was just .... more broke.

 

Just for added brokeness, if you come out of the telenuke chain with Thunderstike, it crits on A LOT of (remaining) mobs.

 

So yeah of the melee ATs, Stalker is far and away the best to carry this combo off.

That is so absurd it's plaid. 

[thegee]

10 hours ago, Kruunch said:

Yeah I made a Scrapper version of this build, which was derived from an Elec/EA Brute I made. I was so in enthralled by Lightning Rod, I wanted a character that could chain together a bunch of these types of attacks.

 

The Scrapper version works really well, but it felt like more of a minion/LT clearer then the complete package. With Elec having fairly weak single target attacks, mopping up the bosses started becoming tedious.

 

Then I read that the telenukes don't break stealth, which meant guaranteed crits coming out of the telenuke chain and that just seemed flat busted. And it most definitely is 😂

 

Then I blundered into the Gaussian's trick (single slotting Build Up with Gaussian's Chance for BU + Stalker ATO Chance for BU Refresh) and that was just .... more broke.

 

Just for added brokeness, if you come out of the telenuke chain with Thunderstike, it crits on A LOT of (remaining) mobs.

 

So yeah of the melee ATs, Stalker is far and away the best to carry this combo off.

can  i see your build? im curious.

[Kruunch]

2 hours ago, thegee said:

can  i see your build? im curious.

I'll post it once I get back to civilization. Currently on a Mac so no Pines 😤

[Kruunch]

16 hours ago, Croax said:

Back to topic (somehow):

Did i read right that every Elec/Shield should be a Stalker?

 

Double Telenuke and Assasinstrike the remaining, at every mob pack?

 

That sounds broken...

Triple telenuke ... don't forget Spring Attack. While it's not in the same damage tier as Lightning Rod or Shield Charge, it's a nice AOE to add to the chain and has a high percentage knock down.

 

One of the points missing about this build, in addition to the absurd amount of AOE damage itself, is the soft control this build brings. Lightning Rod, Shield Charge, Spring Attack and Thunderstrike all have high percentage AOE knock downs.

 

I can run this build with 0% defense and still be very successful with it.

 

**EDIT** Keep in mind that this build demands a ton of -recharge. Currently I'm running about +145% recharge (with Hasten) and still have about another 10-15% to go for perma-Hasten.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Kruunch

[MunkiLord]

14 hours ago, Kruunch said:

The Scrapper version works really well, but it felt like more of a minion/LT clearer then the complete package. With Elec having fairly weak single target attacks, mopping up the bosses started becoming tedious.

So very much this. I love my Scrapper, but bosses take a decent amount of time.