HO/SHO, LFG system, PvP zone changes and new PvP Content Suggestions

[Blastcaps]

I have a suggestion for a couple of things :smiley: firstly possibly the devs could look at buffing HOs and SHO enhancements because atm their worthless except as AH items, where as buffing them to be stronger individually than set enhancements, would increase their worth yet they would not have set bonuses, giving people more choice and also making HOs and SHOs worthwhile again. The second one is see about doing a PVP bank robbery, where you have a full team of heroes defending a bank, and have a full team of villains attacking the bank and have villains defending while they rob the bank and heroes attacking trying to stop them from robbing the bank, this could be optional mode/content

Also currently the LFG system as it currently stands seems like it is under utilised, this I think is possibly due to the fact currently if you are queued for a TF in the LFG system, and a team advertises for more people, they can not currently invite to team people who are in the queue, they get the system message telling them that they are unable to, I would suggest that instead the people in the LFG system, when someone sends them a team invite they get a prompt telling them someone is wanting to invite them to a team and warning that accepting will cause them to leave the LFG system and join the team invite, and are you sure you wish to accept, then have a accept or decline button same as you normal do when being team invited.

The second change that could be made to the LFG is to allow people queuing to pick a role before they get entered into the lfg system, there by allowing the LFG system to put together whole teams for say task forces, essentially a role pick system similar to the way world of Warcraft and league of legends does it currently, but also see about asking the community base first whether they would generally prefer 1 or 2 tanks on a team and 1 or 2 healers.

This change I feel would make the LFG system better and encourage players to utilise it as well as the LFG system, where as the current system feels like it incentivises players not to use it because of the fore mentioned issue about not being currently able to invite to teams.

Currently I'm finding on Torchbearer server that there is a distinct lack of pvp on that server, which got me thinking to how this could be improved so that those that want pvp can find it in the pvp zones, I'm guessing currently that when a player enters a pvp zone they enter it on a sever assigned purely to their normal server, ie Torchbearer, reunion etc, wonder if it would be possible to run 4 separate servers, and where the normal server would point to a pvp server just attached to their normal server, ie someone from torchbearer loading into a pvp zone that is only accessible to torchbearer players, instead the normal servers like torchbearer would then issue a call to move the player onto one of the stand alone pvp zone servers, and add onto the end of the players displayed info it would also include their server, or just have that hidden and only visible to GMs looking at the back end, and/or only visible to the server themselves so that players get transferred back to their normal server when they exit the pvp zone server, this would allow linking of all the servers pvp wise and allow players to find pvp regardless of torchbearer, reunion etc

[PaxArcana]

53 minutes ago, Blastcaps said:

I would suggest that instead the people in the LFG system, when someone sends them a team invite they get a prompt telling them someone is wanting to invite them to a team and warning that accepting will cause them to leave the LFG system and join the team invite

+1 for this - it would be a solid improvement.

 

54 minutes ago, Blastcaps said:

allow people queuing to pick a role before they get entered into the lfg system,

Hard pass.

 

CoX is not a game that needs specific roles filled.  You don't NEED a tank; you don't NEED a "healer".  You just need ... well, anyone.  Any possible mix of ATs and powersets can handle any TF or SF in the game (pre-Incarnate; I don't yet have any experience with those).

I once, back on Live (in i10 or i11 IIRC) was part of a respect trial, where we had a Brute, a Corruptor, and six Masterminds.  (I was one of the MMs).  We MMs literally told the Brute and Corruptor "take a load off, we've got this", and proceeded to WRECK the opposition.  Like an arc welder through warm butter.  We stopped bothering to even buff our pets - just six guys running toggles, telling our pets "go there and shoot/stab/punch ... oh hell, I don't care, SOMETHING or other".  You know what six full sets of leadership, and two dispersion bubbles, does for three dozen Mastermind pets?

Godmode, that's what it does.  😄 It was like pushing baby ducks into an alligator pond, it was that easy.  (The biggest challenge was our computers going to slideshows, 'cause of all the stuff happening on-screen.)

 

...

 

There have been "all defender" TFs.  And not a healer among them - they just buffed themselves into godhood, while debuffing the enemy into feeble kittenhood.

Seriously, "picking a role" is absolutely unnecessary in this game.  🙂 
 

1 hour ago, Blastcaps said:

enters a pvp zone

That would be a great idea for those who enjoy PvP, but I don't think the architecture of the game is able to do that right now.  And I suspect it would take a LOOOOOT of work.  PvP zones are not on separate servers, they're just zones on the same server with different rules.

 

Also, it bumps into the problem of what to do if two people, with the same name but on different servers, enter the same zone at the same time.  CoH just isn't set up to allow more than one person to have the same character name at once.  There's just no way, presently, to do cross-server zones ... and I doubt it's even possible with the CoX program in it's present (and reasonably forseeable) state.

[Vanden]

Hamidon enhancements already are better than IOs. The dual-aspect ones give better enhancement values than any dual aspect IOs (though the difference is miniscule for dual-aspect purples) and the only way to get a triple-aspect IO that's as strong as a triple-aspect HO is to +5 a purple IO.

[Blastcaps]

On 7/27/2019 at 11:20 PM, PaxArcana said:

Hard pass.

 

CoX is not a game that needs specific roles filled.  You don't NEED a tank; you don't NEED a "healer".  You just need ... well, anyone.  Any possible mix of ATs and powersets can handle any TF or SF in the game (pre-Incarnate; I don't yet have any experience with those).

I once, back on Live (in i10 or i11 IIRC) was part of a respect trial, where we had a Brute, a Corruptor, and six Masterminds.  (I was one of the MMs).  We MMs literally told the Brute and Corruptor "take a load off, we've got this", and proceeded to WRECK the opposition.  Like an arc welder through warm butter.  We stopped bothering to even buff our pets - just six guys running toggles, telling our pets "go there and shoot/stab/punch ... oh hell, I don't care, SOMETHING or other".  You know what six full sets of leadership, and two dispersion bubbles, does for three dozen Mastermind pets?

Godmode, that's what it does.  😄 It was like pushing baby ducks into an alligator pond, it was that easy.  (The biggest challenge was our computers going to slideshows, 'cause of all the stuff happening on-screen.)

 

...

 

There have been "all defender" TFs.  And not a healer among them - they just buffed themselves into godhood, while debuffing the enemy into feeble kittenhood.

Seriously, "picking a role" is absolutely unnecessary in this game.  🙂 
 

 

The idea with having selectable roles is that way instead of hunting for say a healer (be it emp def etc) that the system would look at roles set and add someone with the role ticked as healer directly to a team forming so it reduces some of the stress on people running TFs, raids etc but ensuring they can find whats needed easier, asking on LFG channel can at times be hit and miss, sometimes you either don't find or it takes ages to find a healer, mean time you have lots of people responding in tells asking for that last spot, and having to ask each and everyone "hey are you a healer??" before inviting....

Essentially this is being suggested as a QOL change 🙂

 

I'm aware some teams can run just fine without a healer or tank, however for the rest of us...

Edited July 29, 2019 by Blastcaps

[justicebeliever]

26 minutes ago, Blastcaps said:

The idea with having selectable roles is that way instead of hunting for say a healer (be it emp def etc) that the system would look at roles set and add someone with the role ticked as healer directly to a team forming so it reduces some of the stress on people running TFs, raids etc but ensuring they can find whats needed easier, asking on LFG channel can at times be hit and miss, sometimes you either don't find or it takes ages to find a healer, mean time you have lots of people responding in tells asking for that last spot, and having to ask each and everyone "hey are you a healer??" before inviting....

Essentially this is being suggested as a QOL change 🙂

 

I'm aware some teams can run just fine without a healer or tank, however for the rest of us...

I get this...I really do...You want a healer, and you aren't going to run without one, so let's make it easier you to get there...

 

My challenge is that, you might choose to take that extra Troller or Stalker, or Scrapper and find out that things were ok.  That's any of us found out we don't need a healer per-se...Having selectable builds as an option just kind forces people to not have to revaluate the value of other team dynamics...

 

And maybe you are set in your ways.  And again, I get that.  But there are probably a lot of people that are on the fence, and this kind of change will rob them of that experience...

[Yoru-hime]

<Insert GIF of Boromir here>

 

This game has no Healer, this game needs no Healer.

 

This isn't QOL, it's reinforcing needless exclusion of others. This isn't WoW or FFXIV. The tank, healer, damage trinity just doesn't apply. You DON'T need a "healer" on a team. If a leader is holding out for a "healer", they're probably wasting everyone's time and turning away perfectly good teammates while they do it. Support is always nice (and can get stupidly powerful when stacked), but there is very, VERY little in this game that requires any specific Archetype, much less specific sets. Some leaders are just going to do this anyway because they can't help it, but putting anything into the team-building structure that normalizes or worse encourages this behavior gets a firm "No, thank you." from me as well.

[PaxArcana]

2 hours ago, Blastcaps said:

The idea with having selectable roles is that way instead of hunting for say a healer [...]

I'm aware some teams can run just fine without a healer or tank, however for the rest of us...

You don't get it.

 

EVERY team, no exceptions, can run without a healer.  No exceptions.

 

This game long ago eschewed the "Holy Trinity" approach to gameplay.  You can literally take any eight characters, and take on any mission in the game.  The only things you need specific roles for, AFAIK, are Hamidon Raids.  Which need more than just eight players anyway, so that's an entirely moot point IMO.

 

Literally, you do not need people filling specific roles.

 

...

 

When I have a new character, and I jump into a DFB team, I will look at the ATs and powersets of my (completely random) team-mates.  Not because I'm worried about "are all the roles covered", but instead, I'm curious about which flavors of win and awesome will we be enjoying this time?

 

All defenders?  "Buff and deBuff city, population: us!"

All Brutes?  "It's clobberin' time!"

All Masterminds? "Jeeze, I better turn down the FX settings a bit!"

It doesn't matter, any eight characters is a viable team.  ANY eight characters.

[PaxArcana]

Okay, I just re-read my post, and it comes off way more aggressive than I wanted to be (or thought I was being).

 

I apologise for that, so ... let me try this differently:

 

This game's Buff and Debuff values are so strong, that you don't need to cover specific "roles" in the party.

 

In World of Warcraft, a full team of debuff mages is going to have a hard time with dungeon content.  In City of Heroes, a full team of Debuff Defenders and Corruptors is going to faceroll almost anything.

 

In World of Warcraft, a full team of Warriors and Rogues with no healers, CC, etc is going to get hammered in dungeons.  In City of Heroes, a full team of Tanks, Brutes, and Scrappers is going to faceroll almost anything.

 

In World of Warcraft, a full team of "healers" (Nature Druids, Light Priests, etc) is going to get slowed to a useless standstill until they go OOM in dungeons.  In City of Heroes, a full team of "healers" (anyone with Empathy, Pain Domination, etc) is going to faceroll almost anything.

 

The kicker is: each of those teams is going to do their "faceroll almost anything" in different ways.  But they absolutely will faceroll almost any content.  Specific AVs or GMs (ArchVillains, Giant Monsters, respectively) might be more of a challenge for some teams than others, but short of things like the Hamidon or the Rikti Mothership (that are for way more than just ONE team, anyway) ...?  They'll get through it all.

 

Thus, you do not absolutely need "a healer".  You might instead have so many buffs on your team, that no-one ever gets hurt in the first place.

You do not absolutely need "a tank".  You might instead have so many debuffs on your team, that the enemy is turned into hapless baby ducks just waiting to be pushed into the alligator pond.

 

You do not absolutely need "crowd control".  You might instead have so much DPS that you defeat enemy spawns before half the team even knows there's a fight going on .... every fight, for hours at a time.

 

🙂

[Voldine]

On 7/27/2019 at 5:17 PM, Blastcaps said:

healers

Just because you want to see pretty green numbers over your head? Hell no!

 

You know what's more valuable than healing? Not taking damage in the first place. Invite that Soldier or Widow you've been ignoring instead, and all of a sudden everyone in the party has an extra 15-20% defense towards the 45% softcap. Invite that /sonic controller, corruptor, or mastermind and everyone will be taking far less damage while enemies take far more.

 

Nobody wants a leader who JUST wants to see green numbers, especially when that leader starts telling the rad/rad defender to 'stop attacking and heal more' because the defender was debuffing and the idiot leader's health bar dropped below 95%.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Voldine

[PaxArcana]

7 hours ago, Voldine said:

[...] when that leader starts telling the rad/rad defender to 'stop attacking and heal more' [...]

Not going to lie to you: I had almost that exact experience, playing my first controller - Gravity/Empathy - back on Live, during Issue 4.  Nevermind that Empathy was the character's secondary, and not their primary reason to exist.  Nevermind that this was IN THE BLOODY HOLLOWS, and at that point the ONLY Empathy power I'd picked up was the PBAoE heal.  Dude justw anted me to set myself on /follow, set the heal on auto, and .... I dunno, go make myself a sandwich, or something?

...

 

That put me off of Empathy, for any Archetype, for years.  I didn't try another Empathy build until I had a group of people, in a SG, that I felt I could trust not to do that to me.  (Medi-Lad, an Empathy / Archery Defender ... and the Official "Enema Arrow Test Subject" hehehe.)

[Yoru-hime]

That sort of behavior keeps me from playing healer types even in games actually that have them. I never had to put with the levels of micromanagement and abuse that players tried to dish out to my FFXIV White Mage on anything else I've ever played.

[Voldine]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

Not going to lie to you: I had almost that exact experience, playing my first controller - Gravity/Empathy - back on Live, during Issue 4.  Nevermind that Empathy was the character's secondary, and not their primary reason to exist.  Nevermind that this was IN THE BLOODY HOLLOWS, and at that point the ONLY Empathy power I'd picked up was the PBAoE heal.  Dude justw anted me to set myself on /follow, set the heal on auto, and .... I dunno, go make myself a sandwich, or something?

...

 

That put me off of Empathy, for any Archetype, for years.  I didn't try another Empathy build until I had a group of people, in a SG, that I felt I could trust not to do that to me.  (Medi-Lad, an Empathy / Archery Defender ... and the Official "Enema Arrow Test Subject" hehehe.)

Compared to you I'm far less experienced with the evolution of this game specifically, but, that being said... my first 50 was a Necro/Pain. I remember being... let's call it 'gently educated' as to the fact that on team outings my healing was considered inferior to the bonuses my non-healing powers could provide, despite the fact that they had little-to-no visible impact on my pets.

 

I'm a quick learner. Buffing is better than healing, and anyone who is looking for healing and only healing needs to learn how to play the game, or at least how to avoid becoming a member of Floor Inspectors Local 579.

[PaxArcana]

LOL @ "Floor Inspectors Local 579" ... 😄 

[Voldine]

8 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

LOL @ "Floor Inspectors Local 579" ... 😄 

Heh. I keep getting floor time in while re-leveling my heroic crab spider because, even after nearly 7 years away from the game, I'm playing her as if she were my fully-tweaked 'even incarnate content enemies only hit me 5% of the time with over 50% positional defenses' build...at level 25.

 

Old habits die hard.