Possibility of incarnates being disabled in PvP zones?

[Divine]

Title says it all. Will the admin team take disabling incarnate abilities in pvp zones under consideration?

 

 

Flame on.

[Disruptor]

I like this idea.

 

On Leandro's private server there was a large thread in the PvP section where the pvpers tossed out ideas and eventually persuaded Leandro to remove TS and Heal Decay from PvP Zones. Initially they just wanted a full i13 revert but Leandro explained that wouldn't be as easy as it sounds so the TS/Heal Decay was from what I understand a compromise.

 

I am also under the impression Leandro added the ability to turn off TS, HD, DR and Incarnates in Arena match options.

 

 

Hopefully the community can come together and make similar decisions on future changes, the private server pvp community was a handful of people, on a regular bases fewer than 20 pvpers were active day to day. The PvP discord has over 200 people so it may be harder to come to clear cut decisions but hopefully this community can come to a compromise with balances/changes and rule sets too.

 

 

EDIT: The more experienced and active pvpers on leandros server stated when I joined that Incarnates break pvp specifically team pvp and that incarnates overall are not a good idea. Leandro adding the ability to turn off Incarnates in Arena options was the pvp community idea not Leandros.

[Deadlyspike]

I'd love disabling incarnates in zone PvP and, if possible, even a full rewind to pre-i13 PvP.

[barrier]

Title says it all. Will the admin team take disabling incarnate abilities in pvp zones under consideration?

 

 

Flame on.

 

No. Judgement makes a whole bunch of builds viable in zone that would otherwise not be (namely any low-damage dominator secondary).

 

Also, it's zone pvp; not like it's supposed to be competitive.

 

Way fitting that your first post is you claiming something is broken and asking for special treatment. You just want emp/blasters all over everywhere. That's dumb.

[barrier]

And FYI; I was around towards the end when Incan and Judgement were all over RV. The game was fine. Especially with DR still on.

[Fandango]

even a full rewind to pre-i13 PvP.

 

Oh, that would be awesome.  I used to live in PvP zones until the changes.

[Disruptor]

And FYI; I was around towards the end when Incan and Judgement were all over RV. The game was fine. Especially with DR still on.

 

Just to play devils advocate, near the end the games pop was at an all-time low including the pvp population. How could the game be fine and what were the underlying issues causing people to leave?

 

There is a reason many of the people I'm seeing again whether they are friends or just merely acquaintances I stopped seeing them in game years before the game was shutdown. Incarnates did not bring these people back.

 

I think incarnates being on at the end is actually knock against it since the game was at its lowest point, I think a lot of people kind of want changes, right? Especially with the ability to alter the game as a private server compared to when the Devs during live didnt give the pvp community necessarily what it wanted.

 

I guess I wonder, why is suddenly keeping Incarnates a worthwhile fight but reverting TS or other changes are considered good. If your argument is "The game was fine" that doesn't really hold water because the game and pvp was at its least popular point, also TS/Heal Decay were things during that same time period where you claim "The game was fine." and yet most people seem happy those were removed on the private server.

 

 

EDIT: I'd also like to say I am very much not looking forward to every one and their mother having access to Incarnate Pets in Zone PvP on top of the team wide buffs that every class will have access to let alone the reduced end cost or increased damage, additional incarnate procs ect.

[barrier]

And FYI; I was around towards the end when Incan and Judgement were all over RV. The game was fine. Especially with DR still on.

 

Just to play devils advocate, near the end the games pop was at an all-time low including the pvp population. How could the game be fine and what were the underlying issues causing people to leave?

 

There is a reason many of the people I'm seeing again whether they are friends or just merely acquaintances I stopped seeing them in game years before the game was shutdown. Incarnates did not bring these people back.

 

I think incarnates being on at the end is actually knock against it since the game was at its lowest point, I think a lot of people kind of want changes, right? Especially with the ability to alter the game as a private server compared to when the Devs during live didnt give the pvp community necessarily what it wanted.

 

I guess I wonder, why is suddenly keeping Incarnates a worthwhile fight but reverting TS or other changes are considered good. If your argument is "The game was fine" that doesn't really hold water because the game and pvp was at its least popular point, also TS/Heal Decay were things during that same time period where you claim "The game was fine." and yet most people seem happy those were removed on the private server.

 

Okay, I'll play.

 

1. Zone play is not arena play. A dude that only plays when his Incan is up is not pushing back anyone and will likely get camped in RV, where the geometry broadly favors villains.

2. Incarnates are a solid patch for issues resulting from DR. Namely judgment partially patches the low damage coming from any AT other than a blaster and the DR caps on healing (I'm not talking heal decay, I'm talking DR hitting heals hard). If you remember pre-i13 PVP, you should then remember emps that were able to heal through fire/em spikes when you didn't have 4 locks on a target; Incandescence patches towards that former state.

3. As to comparing this to TS/Heal Decay: TS/Heal decay "Off" were standard settings in every ladder/league. The counterpoint is DR. DR is kept on because if you turn it off, inherent resists mean your squishies suddenly become tanks, and your tanks double lol. Keeping DR on keeps us closer to the pre-i13 state of things.

 

The goal is to get closer to i12, right? That doesn't mean reverting functionality. It means looking at the game and thinking "does this bring me closer my goal?".

 

I'm blasting Divine because he never played with incarnates in Zone. I did. It actually brought things like my dark/cold and my doms much closer to what they were in i12 than what they were before incarnates were added.

[Banana Man]

I think we need to chill for a while.

 

The game just came back, and there's a lot of crap that we aren't familiar with. I'd be in favor of holding off on changes until we can make better, more educated changes later.

 

Opinion wise, I lean alpha only, but I also don't have much experience with non-alpha incarnates. Some would be pretty clearly busted in the hands of anyone competent.

 

Like I said, though, we gotta chill for a bit. These mods aren't getting paid, so we don't know what changes they're willing to make yet, or, perhaps more importantly, who they're willing to listen to. I'd be down for a full i12 reversion, but that's actually a lot more complicated than it sounds - and not just on the coding side. Pre i13 pvp was eight issues, the last of which was never balanced because the next issue went right into i13. Post i13 is twelve issues of crap that was never balanced around the old system. I would love a reversion, but if that reversion isn't done right, the end result would be worse than what we have now.

 

I think for the moment, we'd be better served by efforts that make PvP, and getting PvP ready characters (leveling, IOing, incarnating, etc) easier and more accessible. Let's brainstorm to that end and maybe make some suggestions.

[Disruptor]

Banana Man is right!

 

I know many people who would come back to pvp but are not interested in PLing, IOing, farming, accolades, ect.

 

One dude straight up said "Do I get my characters and shit back?" I told 'em no and they said "Not interested."

 

Maybe the Devs here would be interested in setting up a Test server with /insta 50 commands and stuff, Leandro's private server had a Test server with commands to level up and obtain influence/currency, ect. The commands werent always enabled on Leandro's server but what if there was a perma Test server here with those commands? Probably unlikely I know but I imagine it would make the entree into PvP more tolerable for the majority of players.

[webdeath]

Honestly I was not around in PVP During Incarnates release because I had quit CoH at that time.  Mostly because I was upset at the way they did the F2P Model.  So I don't know if it would be better to just turn off Incarnate powers/buffs or not. 

 

I know I hated the TP resist buffs..  :( Ruined TP Foe fun.  :(  But that is an opinion. I guess I'd have to leave this to the experts and hope its still fun what ever gets decided.

[saltydog]

pre i13 was nice, incarnates were needed to offset DR. The only way id say cut incarnates off if DR vanished. I was there from i7 to the shutdown so i seen both sides. i13 was was real pvp, powers worked and you had to be tactical. If anything id say leave zones alone and just make arena have more options. I remember the fear of a buffed fire blaster in the zone, or a dom catching you with no breakfrees. A EM stalker was feared before the EM nerf to energy transfer those were the days.

[vegetableknife]

There’s a lot of talk despite the fact that there’s nobody in the pvp zones ever.  Once people are finally “ready/slotted” everyone’s gonna be gone again.

[LaVar Ball]

Only reasons the zones are empty is cause I’m driving everyone out. Can’t use incarnates in sirens call anyway. If you could I’d beat anyone even if I didn’t have em. Only the weak rely on insps and incarnates, and the real pvpers know.

[Disruptor]

Only reasons the zones are empty is cause I’m driving everyone out. Can’t use incarnates in sirens call anyway. If you could I’d beat anyone even if I didn’t have em. Only the weak rely on insps and incarnates, and the real pvpers know.

 

Is this legit, incarnates are off in zone already?

[saltydog]

Only reasons the zones are empty is cause I’m driving everyone out. Can’t use incarnates in sirens call anyway. If you could I’d beat anyone even if I didn’t have em. Only the weak rely on insps and incarnates, and the real pvpers know.

 

Is this legit, incarnates are off in zone already?

he said sirens, thats 25 and under they only worked in RV

[Disruptor]

oh yeah

[Dan Petro]

As it is, Incarnates in zones (specifically just 1) is probably the the best way to please the most people.

 

You have 3 zones with no incarnates, you have the arena where people can usually come to an agreement (and I think with a little work can implement an option like small inspirations only to toggle them).  RV is the only place you'll experience it.  It sucks if you are a player that happens to fall into the category of "I only play in RV" and "I don't like incarnates" but it is impossible to please everyone. 

 

I think the OP mentioned people talking about it breaking PvP, and I know I have said something to that effect but just to clarify it was specifically referring to team PvP not so much the open chaos of the zones.

[Waypoint]

you have the arena where people can usually come to an agreement (and I think with a little work can implement an option like small inspirations only to toggle them).

 

Great suggestion, Dan Petro!

[Iron Alex]

I was in the old game till the end.. incarnates even the playing field for a lot of builds.. without them.. pvp was who could build the best dominator or stalker and then later brute and blasters.. incarnates brought all types of toons into the mix..  leave them be