Opt-Out of Incarnate

[Steampunkette]

3 hours ago, darkgob said:

 

Have you actually played this game?

For literal years.

 

Take a look at the three encounters you can fight him on, Heroside, and tell me which one fits street level heroes and involves arresting the dude:

 

1) Going to an alternate reality created by the Midnight Squad to destroy his base in the Shadow Shard, Prison for Rularuu the cosmic entity who wants to destroy our world who got imprisoned in the 60s.

2) Save the world during the Rikti War arc which, by the way, involves fighting Hero1 himself and generally SAVING THE WORLD AS IT SAYS ON THE TIN.

3) Dealing with Nazi-Alternate-Reality freaking STATESMAN as a superheroic top tier fight.

 

'Cause, y'know, nothing says "Street Level Kingpin" like only being found in a bunch of Cosmic Level Storyarcs.

 

Don't be insulting, Darkgob. It's not conducive to conversation or constructive at all.

[Zolgar]

*gestures idly at AE*
You have the power to make the world you want to see.

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, Steampunkette said:

3) Dealing with Nazi-Alternate-Reality freaking STATESMAN as a superheroic top tier fight.

... 'cause, you know, Batman and Superman have NEVER fought each other ...

[Steampunkette]

5 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

... 'cause, you know, Batman and Superman have NEVER fought each other ...

Nazi Statesman doesn't get beaten when you show him a green rock.

[ZeeHero]

3 hours ago, Megajoule said:

For some characters (e.g. Thor), that sort of power level is appropriate.  For others, it is not.  On live, we were able to make that decision ourselves, and opt in to that progression if we wished. Here, we are inducted into it automatically and unavoidably; our only option is to try to ignore it.

As far as I'm aware it wasn't a choice on live either. you either became an incarnate or didn't do incarnate content. But why does it matter to you if you dont want to RP as an incarnate, feel free not to. Plenty of my characters arent incarnates or incarnates yet IC. I have only one who I am sure is becuase its actually part of her origin story.

 

Quote

Nazi Statesman doesn't get beaten when you show him a green rock.

No, he gets beaten when you shoot him with a science laser to remove his invincibility to everything. and Batman counts at least as a world class hero given his level of planning. he could kill the entire justice leauge if he wanted provided he didnt let them know his plans.

 

One of my characters at her theoretical peak is easily as powerful as statesman if not more. I of course don't RP her like this now becuase I'd like to start her as a new more vulnerable character, afraid of her own growing power. but this is the level she can reach eventually.

Edited August 15, 2019 by ZeeHero

[Steampunkette]

Oh my god. Seriously? Just let it go.

 

The point is that not every "Street Level Hero" gets to arrest Nemesis or any other "Kingpin of Crime" character 'cause they're not written for Street Level Heroes to fight.

 

They're written for every character to start out punching gangbangers on the streets and grow in power 'til they can tangle with the biggest and the baddest characters in the game.

 

You can write your own reasons for your own character to be able to ignore the massive disparity between "Thug with a gun" and "Superstrong Supervillain" but that doesn't mean everyone feels comfortable ignoring that disparity. The fact that the Batman V Superman argument is still going strong after 40 something years (Not to mention Superman v Goku, -jesus-...) is perhaps the single greatest indicator of that.

 

And if City of Heroes were a better game than it is (And it's already a pretty freaking great game) it would acknowledge that disparity in the writing by continuing the "Multiple Paths Through Leveling" trend all the way up to the End-Game by including end-game storylines that don't rely on your character being able to punch out supervillains empowered by freaking GODS.

 

Does that mean I want the current Devs to rewrite the incarnate arcs? Hell no. Does that mean I'm going to ask the current devs to redesign the incarnate system? Hell no. Does that mean I want the current devs to consider a wider variety of power-levels in continuing content? Sure, who the hell does that harm?

 

But maybe, -just maybe-, for some players it might be worthwhile to have a P2W Vendor Flag that disables Incarnate Drops the same way as any other drops get flagged in the system that -already exists-. You don't have to use it, -obviously-. But for them it might be better than constantly getting 'INCARNATE SHARD BONDED' in the middle of their screen.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Steampunkette

[ZeeHero]

I mean... they could level scale some of the lower missions and make some "endgame" street sweeping for those who enjoy limiting themselves to that I guess.

Edited August 15, 2019 by ZeeHero

[maleficent]

On 8/14/2019 at 12:48 AM, Megajoule said:

(Note: if such a thing already exists in game, please let me know!)

 

So I know some of you will think this is an odd request - why would anyone not want to be an Incarnate?  Well, for me, it was a combination of concept/roleplaying and reducing my grind/workload.  Of my characters, both back on live and these servers, there are some that I can imagine ascending to demigod levels of power (or even higher), while others are "merely" "ordinary" super-beings, or even exceptional but unpowered normals.  On a purely practical/mechanical level, deciding that some characters would not take part in the Incarnate grind meant that I didn't have to do the Mender Ramiel arc to unlock that status for them, or craft and slot those abilities for them; I could focus just on the ones who did.

 

Here, however, I don't (seem to) have that option.  All characters here automatically start earning Incarnate xp and receiving Shards and Threads as soon as they turn 50.  Even disabling xp entirely doesn't keep this from happening.  At least if I ignore it long enough, I'll end up unlocking all of my slots and then the messages that I've earned xp toward doing so will stop.  I'll still be left with an ever-growing pile of Threads sitting uselessly on that character, though.  The best case (for me) would be some way of conveniently transferring those rewards to one of my other characters, who I do choose to participate in Incarnate gameplay and content with; but if that's not practical, or considered fair, I would simply like a way for some of my characters to completely opt out.

So turn off EXP at level 49? Or 35. Or whatever level makes you feel strong enough that you are satisfied with that character's development.

49 could be your new max level so you can still use the higher level enhancements, but not be eligible for Incarnate content or perks.

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by maleficent

[Jeuraud]

54 minutes ago, maleficent said:

So turn off EXP at level 49? Or 35. Or whatever level makes you feel strong enough that you are satisfied with that character's development.

49 could be your new max level so you can still use the higher level enhancements, but not be eligible for Incarnate content or perks.

Or better yet there could be a switch to turn off Incarnate xp, Shards and Threads, just as the OP request's.

 

I see nothing game-breaking about this suggestion, and personally I'm really getting tired of reading people's Work-arounds for suggestions, in the Suggestion Forum, instead of reading why the suggestion is a bad idea, though I understand why.  It's a lot easier to give unwanted advice then to say they don't want the CoHH Devs to work on someone else's project, because that might take time away from the projects that are important to them. That sounds really childish when you put it that way.

[Megajoule]

1 hour ago, maleficent said:

So turn off EXP at level 49? Or 35. Or whatever level makes you feel strong enough that you are satisfied with that character's development.

49 could be your new max level so you can still use the higher level enhancements, but not be eligible for Incarnate content or perks.

 

This is a fair suggestion, and I thank you.

 

Speaking only for myself, I feel that a character locked at 49 is incomplete, in a way that one that is 50 but not Incarnate is not. I want that round number, for those characters to be properly "finished" under the terms of the game as it once was, to reach their natural peak; that peak just happens to be lower for some character concepts.

 

I've acknowledged from the start that this is an odd and probably rare feeling, and very low priority to implement... but as one of the GMs posted on the first page, l'm not the only one who's asked about it.

 

Also, I wrote a thing. 🙂

Edited August 15, 2019 by Megajoule

[Yoru-hime]

After all the discussion, I think the original suggestion seems reasonable.

 

 

As a quick way to get there, what about this? We have filters for inspirations and other drops in the P2W shop. Would it be possible to filter out threads and shards as well?

[Rathulfr]

It seems to me that the nut of the problem lay in the fact that players no longer "unlock" Incarnate content/powers via the Mender Ramiel arc.  All the Incarnate stuff just starts happening automatically when one hits 50, regardless of whether or not you ever meet or talk to Ramiel.  It sounds like the OP is just asking for an option to disable that automatic unlock, perhaps as something that can be acquired at the P2W vendor.  And that doesn't seem too unreasonable a request to make.  Whether or not that's a request that can be fulfilled without a lot of work is a different question.

 

On most of my characters, I prefer automatic Incarnation.  But I could definitely see where I might also enjoy playing without automatic Incarnation, for a variety of reasons.  The thematic reasons stated by the OP are the most obvious, and have merit.  But I suggest that nostalgic reasons might also have merit: I'd love to return to the simpler times before Incarnates became a thing.  I kind of do that already, as I usually maintain an "SO's only" alternate build on many of my characters.

 

But as others have already pointed out, that's most easily accomplished by simply ignoring the Incarnate stuff: don't craft/equip anything for the Incarnate slots, and you're basically not Incarnate, as I don't believe there's any inherent benefit to them when they're not slotted.  I'm not saying that's the best or only answer: it's just a good one, for the moment.

 

[PaxArcana]

3 hours ago, Megajoule said:

Speaking only for myself, I feel that a character locked at 49 is incomplete, in a way that one that is 50 but not Incarnate is not. I want that round number, 

Then lock it at 40.  Round number, voila.

[Megajoule]

23 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Then lock it at 40.  Round number, voila.

The rest of that sentence, which you cut, was also relevant.

[PaxArcana]

Relevant ... but not achievable.

A 50th level character should have the power of a 50th level character, period.  If you think that's too powerful for your concept, then you are going to have to pick some earlyer level, say "this is the peak for that concept" ... and stop there.  Before 50.  Because there is literally no other way for you to NOT be as powerful as the "cosmic hero" concept character is at level 45 or 50 or whatever.

[ZeeHero]

2 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Relevant ... but not achievable.

A 50th level character should have the power of a 50th level character, period.  If you think that's too powerful for your concept, then you are going to have to pick some earlyer level, say "this is the peak for that concept" ... and stop there.  Before 50.  Because there is literally no other way for you to NOT be as powerful as the "cosmic hero" concept character is at level 45 or 50 or whatever.

There is. a bad build or not using IO sets.

[PaxArcana]

Let me draw an analogy, using a tabletop pencils-and-dice RPG in the same genre:

Mutants & Masterminds

 

If you're playing "street level" heroes, who faces city-wide gangs and maybe the occasional out-of-town mid-powered "hit man", then you're talking maybe a Power Level (PL) 8 to 10 game.

If you're playing "Justice League" heroes, who face global organisations and frequent encounters with high-powered threats from space and/or other dimensions, then you're talking a PL 15+.

 

If you take a character who is built to PL8 using 120 Hero Points, into a game with PL18 characters built with 270 Hero Points ... you're not even going to qualify as "capable sidekick".  You will essentially be one of the Innocent Bystanders the actual heroes have to rescue.  (Those numbers are taken directly from the 3rd edition rules, page 24, by the by.)

 

It's the same with a "street hero" who faces Family, Freakshow, and maybe some Tsoo or Council ... versus the Global or Cosmic hero who faces the Rularuu or similar.

[Steampunkette]

14 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Let me draw an analogy, using a tabletop pencils-and-dice RPG in the same genre:

Mutants & Masterminds

 

If you're playing "street level" heroes, who faces city-wide gangs and maybe the occasional out-of-town mid-powered "hit man", then you're talking maybe a Power Level (PL) 8 to 10 game.

If you're playing "Justice League" heroes, who face global organisations and frequent encounters with high-powered threats from space and/or other dimensions, then you're talking a PL 15+.

 

If you take a character who is built to PL8 using 120 Hero Points, into a game with PL18 characters built with 270 Hero Points ... you're not even going to qualify as "capable sidekick".  You will essentially be one of the Innocent Bystanders the actual heroes have to rescue.  (Those numbers are taken directly from the 3rd edition rules, page 24, by the by.)

 

It's the same with a "street hero" who faces Family, Freakshow, and maybe some Tsoo or Council ... versus the Global or Cosmic hero who faces the Rularuu or similar.

Game Mechanics don't have to define the story.

 

I could develop a M&M game where Superheroes have 150 Power Points to spend on their characters and put them against appropriate challenges and limit the narrative to one city or one neighborhood of a city. Maybe all their adventures happen only in Brooklyn New York. Guess what? They're Street-Level Heroes.

 

If I turn around and have those players make 150pp characters and then tell a sweeping cosmic narrative where they're piloting starships and fighting aliens, they're cosmic heroes. Even with the same power point costs.

 

 Narrative does not have to be tied to game mechanics, instead game mechanics can support the narrative.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Steampunkette

[Megajoule]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

Relevant ... but not achievable.

A 50th level character should have the power of a 50th level character, period.  If you think that's too powerful for your concept, then you are going to have to pick some earlyer level, say "this is the peak for that concept" ... and stop there.  Before 50.  Because there is literally no other way for you to NOT be as powerful as the "cosmic hero" concept character is at level 45 or 50 or whatever.

There's lots more shades than that now. Back when there was no Incarnate system, sure.  But now we have (e.g.) "brand new 50, nothing unlocked or slotted"; "Alpha unlocked and slotted with a T1"; "Alpha slotted with a T4"; "Judgment and Interface unlocked and slotted with T1s", and so on. It's basically a whole nother (abbreviated) leveling tree planted on top of the old one - which, some would argue, is exactly what the game needed.  I enjoy climbing that second tree myself... on some of my characters, not all. The ones for whom it makes sense, to me and me alone, to have that kind of power, above and beyond "ordinary" super-beings (who, in the official story, get mowed down when Incarnates take the field, because they're simply at a whole other level ("divine" or "cosmic", to use some terms that have been thrown around in this thread)).

 

Mortal stops at 50.000. Used to be, that was a hard-coded limit, a solid wall, like the speed of light. Now, Incarnates start at 50 + 1 xp and go up.

 

My namesake, my first main back on live, is a classic Science origin, empowered in a lab accident.  At level 50, she's at the top of her game, able to defeat street punks by the score and stand toe to toe with Malta or (a) Nemesis etc. But if you put her up against an Incarnate, she would get stomped into the ground. Not (just) because of what the mechanics and code say, the level shifts and all that; simply because she's not a god and never will be.  She's a mortal woman crossed with a particle accellerator, with a lot of courage and training and experience.  But she's not even a weakly-godlike entity. She is still essentially human.  And so are many of my other characters.

 

That's why I want this. To be able to draw that line cleanly in my head, like I used to, when starting on the road to apotheosis was something you had to opt into, rather than something you can't (currently) opt out of.  You can ignore it, but it's still there.  I want to stop right at 50, the best a mortal can be, and no higher. Right now, I can't; I will keep getting xp to unlock those slots, even if I turn xp off entirely (I've tried). The game will keep treating her like she is a god, already, just one who's pretending otherwise... her and all the rest.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Megajoule

[ZeeHero]

30 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Game Mechanics don't have to define the story.

 

I could develop a M&M game where Superheroes have 150 Power Points to spend on their characters and put them against appropriate challenges and limit the narrative to one city or one neighborhood of a city. Maybe all their adventures happen only in Brooklyn New York. Guess what? They're Street-Level Heroes.

 

If I turn around and have those players make 150pp characters and then tell a sweeping cosmic narrative where they're piloting starships and fighting aliens, they're cosmic heroes. Even with the same power point costs.

 

 Narrative does not have to be tied to game mechanics, instead game mechanics can support the narrative.

So what you just said is... if Rularu the Ravager comes down to the streets of paragon city and we fight him we are all street level heroes for that event. makes a kind of literal sense but a literal sense only.

 

However many of my heroes begin their journey at street level. even the mighty astera (an incarnate) starts her career there as she learns to control and use her vast potential power, and as it grows she steps up to higher and higher threats. theres a sort of progression. also the reason why retcons and universe restarting events happen in comics.

 

An incarnate is absolutely NOT a god. they are not all powerful, there are threats which would stomp an un aided incarnate such as battallion or rularu. Astera for all her power is mortal although she may not age, and can be at least theoretically killed. Mortal MEANS able to die.

Edited August 15, 2019 by ZeeHero

[Steampunkette]

16 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

So what you just said is... if Rularu the Ravager comes down to the streets of paragon city and we fight him we are all street level heroes for that event. makes a kind of literal sense but a literal sense only.

 

However many of my heroes begin their journey at street level. even the mighty astera (an incarnate) starts her career there as she learns to control and use her vast potential power, and as it grows she steps up to higher and higher threats. theres a sort of progression. also the reason why retcons and universe restarting events happen in comics.

 

An incarnate is absolutely NOT a god. they are not all powerful, there are threats which would stomp an un aided incarnate such as battallion or rularu. Astera for all her power is mortal although she may not age, and can be at least theoretically killed. Mortal MEANS able to die.

Narratively Rularuu is a cosmic entity. Doesn't matter where you fight him, he's still going to eat our reality.

 

But a character like, say, Paladin is not a Cosmic Entity. It's a giant Clockwork. Mechanically they both con Purple regardless of your level. They both function by the same rules of Giant Monsters. 

 

Narratively they're wholly different beings for how dangerous they are and what their goals/existence is. Paladin is a scary robot that terrorizes Kings Row once in a while, while Rularuu wants to get out of the Shadow Shard and eat our whole reality.

 

But they're both 'Just Giant Monsters' as far as game mechanics go. You're level 50 with 4 level shifts and Tier 4 everystuff and IO sets to hell and back? Paladin STILL cons purple to you. Even though 10 level 20 characters beat him the last time he spawned, you're not going to be able to Thanos Snap him out of existence with all your Incarnate abilities. (You'll still beat him if you're built really well, but it's not going to be a 10 second fight)

 

Game Mechanics do not -have to- define the narrative.

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, Steampunkette said:

Game Mechanics don't have to define the story.

No, of course not.

But they do have to SUPPORT the story.

 

1 hour ago, Steampunkette said:

I could develop a M&M game where Superheroes have 150 Power Points to spend on their characters and put them against appropriate challenges and limit the narrative to one city or one neighborhood of a city. Maybe all their adventures happen only in Brooklyn New York. Guess what? They're Street-Level Heroes.

That's not how it works.

 

Conveniently, the 5th edition of "DC Adventures" - the official RPG for playing in the world of Batman, Superman, et al - uses the third edition Mutants and Masterminds rules.

Nightwing - Dick Grayson's adult heroic persona - is PL 10.  His activities are focussed primarily in a single city, Bludhaven.  He is at the upper end of "street level" heroes.

 

Robin (Tim Drake) is PL 8; Batman is PL12.

Meanwhile, the Joker is PL 11.  A decent match for either Batman or Nightwing, but for young Tim Drake?  Seriously hard.

And that's just the Joker.  A one-city villain.  So, a "Street Level" Archvillain.

...
 

Meanwhile, Darkseid is PL 16.  If Robin had to face him, Darkseid's only real challenge will be deciding which minion to order to wipe Tim's remains off of his boot.

Rularuu coming to Paragon City, would be like Darkseid coming to Gotham.  Out of Batman's league - he would have to put out a desperate call for help from his SG - and hope more than two of them show up; Superman and Wonder Woman are both PL 15, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) and the Martian Manhunter are PL 14, Aquaman and the Flash are PL 12 ...

Whether a hero is "street level" or "global" or "cosmic" has to do more with the relative power level of who he or she faces (and how broad of a threat they ultimately pose), than with the particular theater of the conflict.
 

[Voldine]

46 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

No, of course not.

But they do have to SUPPORT the story.

 

That's not how it works.

 

Conveniently, the 5th edition of "DC Adventures" - the official RPG for playing in the world of Batman, Superman, et al - uses the third edition Mutants and Masterminds rules.

Nightwing - Dick Grayson's adult heroic persona - is PL 10.  His activities are focussed primarily in a single city, Bludhaven.  He is at the upper end of "street level" heroes.

 

Robin (Tim Drake) is PL 8; Batman is PL12.

Meanwhile, the Joker is PL 11.  A decent match for either Batman or Nightwing, but for young Tim Drake?  Seriously hard.

And that's just the Joker.  A one-city villain.  So, a "Street Level" Archvillain.

...
 

Meanwhile, Darkseid is PL 16.  If Robin had to face him, Darkseid's only real challenge will be deciding which minion to order to wipe Tim's remains off of his boot.

Rularuu coming to Paragon City, would be like Darkseid coming to Gotham.  Out of Batman's league - he would have to put out a desperate call for help from his SG - and hope more than two of them show up; Superman and Wonder Woman are both PL 15, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) and the Martian Manhunter are PL 14, Aquaman and the Flash are PL 12 ...

Whether a hero is "street level" or "global" or "cosmic" has to do more with the relative power level of who he or she faces (and how broad of a threat they ultimately pose), than with the particular theater of the conflict.
 

Get down OFF of that high horse you're standing on and admit that there is no logical reason for someone to be forced into Incarnate content just because somewhere along the line someone put in a shortcut.

 

Because that's what it is, a SHORTCUT. Someone unlocked 'easy mode' on Incarnate progression and has forced ALL OF US to play that way by having everything you do after you hit 50 count as being in the best possible Incarnate Trial for your character's progress. Personally I LOVE the fact that I already have Hybrid unlocked and slotted less than four days after dinging 50 because it means so much less grind to get my old main back to where she was when Live ended...but it's still EASY MODE.

 

I don't have to grind Keyes.

I don't have to run a BAF.

I don't even need to run an Apex.

 

EVERYTHING I DO causes Incarnate progress. EVERYTHING I DO potentially earns Incarnate rewards. Once I'm done recreating the 3-4 Incarnates I had on Live....it's going to start feeling cheapened because of the lack of any kind of challenge to gaining levels in the system, and the fact that all of the unlocks come as fast as possible.

 

I would personally LOVE to see a P2W option to set Incarnate progression back to how it was on Live on a per-character basis, and this would be something one could change at a later time if they decided to do so.

 

I want to be able to EARN my incarnate abilities again at some point, not have them handed to me on a silver platter after one Kahn, one Ms. Liberty, two ITF's and a Yin.

 

And yes, I do realize there is still SOME grind involved in that I still have to progress to tier 4 abilities in all of my slots. That's not my point. I want to HAVE THE OPTION to feel like I had to actually do something to unlock that next level of power beyond 'turn on game, find team, wreck face, lolcarnates.'

 

Or, hell, just a thought here: Why not give us a popup when we hit 50 that asks us if we want to have incarnate content auto-unlocked, or if we want to run the Mender Ramiel arc first (with a note that this would also enable all the old progress restrictions on Incarnate content and rewards)? Then, based upon that answer, either keep the current default or SET IT TO AS IT WAS ON LIVE. That way people who ding 50 in the middle of a TF don't have to abandon the mission and tell the group that they need to see P2W to turn off Incarnate content because they don't see this character becoming more powerful.

 

Why do this? Why ask for the devs to add in an option that effectively hamstrings a character at the 'old cap?' Because getting what used to be a reward for exceptional effort without even making ANY effort at all is going to become boring, and it will become boring for some faster than it will for others.

 

Things becoming boring for any reason will lead to the stagnation and demise of this revived game, especially once a successor game finally comes out and leeches away at the playerbase we have that is using the revival of CoH as something to tide them over.

[maleficent]

7 hours ago, Jeuraud said:

Or better yet there could be a switch to turn off Incarnate xp, Shards and Threads, just as the OP request's.

 

I see nothing game-breaking about this suggestion, and personally I'm really getting tired of reading people's Work-arounds for suggestions, in the Suggestion Forum, instead of reading why the suggestion is a bad idea, though I understand why.  It's a lot easier to give unwanted advice then to say they don't want the CoHH Devs to work on someone else's project, because that might take time away from the projects that are important to them. That sounds really childish when you put it that way.

Wow. Grief much? I thought I was very respectful with my answer to the OP. It is not an unreasonable request they are making. But it might also take some time for the Devs to code in and the OP might like to have a functional workaround until the Devs will/won't make a decision about such a feature. I am not here to shame anybody if they don't want to do end-game content. Childish is a term you might want to reflect on in the future. The OP asked for a feature and, baring that, advice. You don't have to be dismissive of others just because they choose to play differently than you, or because you are dissatisifed with the solutions that have been offered. Thanks for keeping COH forums a friendly place to be.

[PaxArcana]

9 minutes ago, Voldine said:

Get down OFF of that high horse you're standing on and admit that there is no logical reason for someone to be forced into Incarnate content just because somewhere along the line someone put in a shortcut.

It's funny you would accuse me of being "on a high horse", in response to a subthread of discussion about the defined systems of character levels and relative power within a multiplayer gamespace.  Absolutely nothing I said was anything less than 100% objectively factual.

 

Just because you don't like that it doesn't support your personal desires, does not mean I'm "on a high horse", nor anything even close to it.

 

12 minutes ago, Voldine said:

I want to be able to EARN my incarnate abilities again at some point, not have them handed to me on a silver platter after one Kahn, one Ms. Liberty, two ITF's and a Yin.

That is completely unrelated to what I was discussing, in that post you quoted to accuse me of "being on a high horse".

 

I was discussing the idea of having the game be able to divide 50th level characters into street-level, global, and/or cosmic tiered heroes - the concept of having two 50th level characters, before enhancements and set bonusses, have wildly divergent levels of power.

...

Which one of us is on an exceptionally-tall equine now, hmm?