Erratic1

Do Brute players procbomb themselves much? Because honestly, over the years, it has pretty much never been much of a discussion point in the Brute subforums.

I doubt Brutes doing more damage is on the table. That would be going the opposite way of the previous adjustments (like dropping their damage cap from 775% to 700%) and would threaten the positioning of Scrappers and Stalkers. And if the narrative above is that Tanker damage being reduced means Brute ascendancy for tanking well enough while doing superior damage, giving Brutes more damage ends up in the exact same place. Not sure why Tankers got an ATO which makes them better at survival when the inherent nature of the values they get out of armor sets sufficiently covers that. Give Brutes Might of the Tanker (call it Berserker's Endurance) and give Tankers a target cap/area boosting ATO, keeping the damage increase Tankers got previously but doing away with the area increase. Tankers would still solo better than they originally did, and once they get their ATOs in place become area damage specialists as intended. Brutes survive better than they currently do but do not hold aggro any better nor in any amount approaching a Tanker.

On Sentinels there is some merit to splitting one set to enhance range.

The developers have stated they want Tankers to be the AoE specialists. Perhaps I am reading something which isn't there, but I am thinking the point of the comparison is to get Tankers up to the right numbers to achieve the stated goal. Already more than one negative change had been reversed. Case in point:

The point it not comparing apples to oranges (or golf balls) but apples to apples--that is what testing (a) the same build live versus test server on the same mission and (b) testing ATs on the same mission are giving. It is not meant to be some, overarching, this is how powerset compares to powerset (in this case) but rather how the AT is performing. The context is how the changes are impacting Tankers performance and Trapdoor is a controlled setting. Physics is taught to students in context of simplified systems (see the meaning of 'spherical cow'). You consider trajectories being parabolas by ignoring air resistance. You consider elliptical orbits of planets by ignoring the impact each of the planets have on each other. Trapdoor is a simplification and objecting that it isn't real or encompassing of the totality of the Tanker experience is ignoring what the question is context of what the data is providing.

No you didn't, but you excluded it from having any worth of consideration. Trapdoor is a test of solo play and it removes a lot of variables which can obscure and muddle understanding of results. And for the record, it is poor form to assume what a person understands. I addressed what was not being covered, nothing more.

People do solo and solo play is meaningful.

Payer-1's request was: I think it is understood Tankers are more survivable than Brutes are more survivable than Scrappers. Not saying testing more challenging content is meaningless just the most salient factor, given what has changed for Tankers, is damage.

If your goal is to test damage output, then why does challenge matter? More challenging content is going to favor a Tanker because they are more survivable, but that does not address the way you end missions--by dealing sufficient damage to defeat targets.

Or you built up your +Recharge and took Epic area powers.

Foot Stomp does not need to be brought into line. The set it is in only has Foot Stomp as a means of doing AoE damage. Its higher damage value is making up for not having a second AoE damaging attack.

They say Regen is nice and could be mine, There's even talk about it tanking fine. I must admit that's what I wanna here, But that's just talk until you take me there. If its true, don't leave me all alone out here, Wondering if you're ever gonna take me there. Tell me Regen's good because I need to know, Devs you gotta let me know which way to go.

It is a challenge. But hey, so was painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. You get more spectacular results with complexity than with cookie cutters sameness. Did I mention Path of Exile earlier? This is the Path of Exile 2 passive skill tree: Your starting place on it depends on your initial class. You then path through it picking up benefits with each level. And the number of mechanics addressed in the tree is staggering. This is utterly aside from equipment or skills or skill modifiers or ascendancy classes. CoH is not the above, even with the IO system and Incarnates and Powerset variety. In fact, you can choose to not engage with swaths of CoH complexity and still have a good time. Yeah, the complexity it has is not likely to make every choice completely valid and balanced, but trust me, you have a far easier time messing up a Path of Exile character.

Foot Stomp, given its area and number of targets, does more damage than it should.... ...it is also the only damaging AoE in its powerset. No, all powerset powers solid not be identical.

There are definitely games where getting going and understanding the basics is harder. Here you can do well without getting into the more esoteric aspects (unlike say...Path of Exile).

Hey! I started in Beta.

I haven't. I just take Cross Punch instead. I'm not much into damage procs.

Because Super Strength has only one damaging AoE power, I would guess.

This is my first only one who has been built with extensive use of +Recharge procs. It really started as more of a knockdown thing, but that is one step away from +Recharge. About the only thing I avoid doing is relying on damage procs. Beyond that, there are boundaries--I am unwilling to bend theme/concept beyond a certain point but find I can often accommodate various options I had not initially considered. That is why I have characters without the traditional travel powers. Not like Black Canary flies, teleports, super speeds, or super leaps.

Well, that is the beauty of area damage. You just have to make sure the sum of the damage being dealt exceeds the single-target damage value to be pulling ahead. Brutes may deal better single-target damage, but there is a value at which it is more effective to deal area damage (so long as you'll survive things pounding on you longer while you do so). Staying within an single AT for calculation, I typically calculate that breakeven point (on melee's anyway) as hitting three targets with an AoE. Consider the below screenshot of me testing my most recent Tanker's target build on the test server: I did not think to screenshot things earlier in the fight when more things were alive, but notice the Recharge Time Bonus is 167.5%. That is on top of what is slotted in the power. My AoE attacks are up at under a third of their base recharge time. My big single-target attack hits for 440, but the big AoE hits for 213. Say the Brute would hit for 600. I only have to hit three targets to be at parity on my Tanker. And sure, I cannot chain my big AoE, but then the Brute's big attack cannot be chained either. As my Tanker is slotted, Spinning Strike is up every 4.7 seconds (if I maintain 167.5% recharge that is) whereas Crushing Uppercut is up 7.17s. So not only do I outdo the big attack so long as I am hitting 3 targets, but I can do it more often. This is what, at least in part, @DrunkFlux is getting at.

It's kind of of a joke statement as that is historically where the stuff has occurred. 😁

Farmers will. Missions certainly have trash to kill, but at that point Blasters outshine Tankers and Brutes for going nuclear. Bosses however, that is where a Brute will be leaving the Tanker behind, particularly once Tanker procs are reigned in a bit. It is NOT MY LOGIC. I noted it as the course of the developers. Moreover, I noted Tankers were stated by the developers to be the melee area damage specialists. Again, Blasters trump them instantly and handily. See upthread. All Brute vs Tanker discussions belongs in the Brute subforum.

The damage scalar is a guideline for assigning damage values, not something which is mechanically calculated in game. And yes, Brutes do fall behind Tankers for dealing area damage. Go read Captain Powerhouse's post--that is intended. Tankers have been adjusted to be the area damage specialists of the melee ATs. As for your calculations, go look in the Brute forum, find my posts. I am pretty sure most people of any time on these forums will point you to me questioning Brute/Tanker balance over the years. Where your calculations miss a step is the presumption of damage saturation for both ATs. It is possible for that to happen, sure, but it requires significant outside buffing for both. One Defender/Corruptor is not likely to pull that off solo. (Well, you could gobble inspirations, but that is rather limiting during a mission.) I think where you majorly lose a step is with: There is no purely defensive AT in the game. All have some sort of offensive capacity.

While a larger arc is more useful, 90 degrees is still a very decent arc. Though I have to say, the 10' radius is a bit short.

I was updating you on the new information. Specifically, the statement is changes to cones are being rolled back--no increase in radius, no change to damage.