Erratic1

Film for visual lushness, series for plot/action.

Completely untrue. A Brute will never, ever, EVER tank as well as a Tanker. Period. They will also never, ever, EVER do as much damage as a Scrapper or Stalker. There is no choice. They will be second place no matter what they do. You object to something which was not said. Using the procs is a matter of slotting them. Good luck surviving if you go proc happy as a Brute relies heavily on set bonuses to reach maximum Brute survivabilty and proc'ing out will hinder you getting there. *LOL* And Brutes were never mentioned in the above. So an utterly meaningless aside.

Ston was a rather prolific collector/tester of AT performance and the image was taken from his thread: You can click the above and go to the thread. Mind you, this is only a portion of of the totality of his work and discusses on Trapdoor, which favors area attacks and more importantly procs--something it is somewhat hard to load up on as a Brute as compared to a Tanker because Brutes have to bend their slotting towards survivability. Pylon is another common metric. And before this thread, there were others where people both reported their performance and often video clips of their runs. In the previous Trapdoor thread (in the Scrapper subforums I think) Ston would regularly challenge people's notions on exactly what type of performance could be managed on Tankers. You can catch him doing so in the following thread (which predates the one above) here: Posting the image I did is a remind to some of the participants of this thread they participated in those other threads and did not find near the objections they have managed to find in this one.

But a very few Brute builds, buffed to the gills in a team setting, was a problem requiring nerfing all Brutes, eh? You are engaging in tactic of disassembly--arguing no specific point proves an end conclusion as distraction from the assembly of points meaning something. I asked above what specifically would constitute proof of one of your fellow naysayers and got nothing specific in return. I leave you the question.

The primary advantage Brutes have over Scrappers is more hit points and a higher resistance cap. That last bit does not mean much until IOs come into play and the first is possibly not that meaningful if the Brute is using a defense set as opposed to a range based one as it is hard to cap defenses and then push past 75% on resistances. Add on top that unlike with Tankers vs Brutes in terms of survival, Brutes get the same value out of their armor sets as Scrappers do. So yes, your impression of the survivability advantage of Brutes to Scrappers is correct.

Something like the following:

I would go Battle Axe over Broadsword. The ability to drag foes with you using Axe Cyclone and cluster them together is amazing and having just used one area attack, you can follow up with both Pendulum and Cleave. You will want to plan for the lack of an armor set endurance recovery option ahead of time.

I was agreeing with you mostly, just underscoring the AT focus involves more than just damage. OP has a forum history of extremely opinionated positions usually at considerable odds with common experience.

I was exploring various AI generators and for the life of me, I cannot remember which one I used to generate the underlying image I used for the below, but it was spectacular...except for the incredibly mangled hands. So I took that image, ran it through a different site, clipped out the hands and got the following result:

Aside from the fact it solos decently when considered against the rest of ranged ATs (solo Blaster is risking failure more often for example), I ran Synapse on my latest Corruptor on Friday. He is Ice/Marine. We ran without pause because I was able to keep everyone's endurance sufficiently high they never had to stop to recover endurance, buffing their resistance lowered incoming damage, and buffing damage, recharge, and To-Hit allowed us to cruise right along. Some of my corruptors blast more than others. Really depends on the nature and number of buffs to tend to (as well as how often people push the envelope and require I focus on healing). Ice blast makes you play a bit more like a controller--focus on the Ice Storms and Blizzards, the single targets are just icing on the cake.

At any given amount of equal expenditure, the Tanker will be more survivable and be able to load on more (until failure of course).

And in particular, you can grow the size of enemy spawns by setting team size higher, so there is great density to plow through.

Not played a Tanker recently I take it? Because this is massively untrue.

Marine as I see it is more of a buff powerset than a debuff one. Torroidal Bubble buffs Recovery, Resistance, and grants Endurance. You should keep this one up all the time on your group. Its effects are easy for recipients to miss, but there will be fewer deaths and more uptime. Tide Pool does debuff enemy damage and movement speed (Slows). It also buffs the damage of friends standing in it. Solo play you can place it under yourself to boost your damage then when foes come at you retreat, leaving them to be slowed. In groups, drop it where the fighting will occur and your melees will love it. Shifting Tides boosts Damage, To-Hit, and Recharge. Drop on a melee, pet if running solo, or even an enemy if need be. This is the big power of the set, eclipsing the T9. Take the above and your heal (Soothing Wave), and anything else is optional (often good but none necessarily critical).

The base defense/resistance values for a Tanker are higher than for a Brute. As example, a Tanker gets 15% Defense to Fire/Cold/Energy/Negative from Environmental Modification compared to 11.25% for a Brute using the same power. For equal shooting the resulting values will be higher on the Tanker. Bio Armor is like every other armor set in this regard. This holds true for Power Pool powers too--Tanker values are higher. Tough for a Tanker gives 15% Smash/Lethal resistance, for a Brute it gives 11.25% For equal power/slotting investment a Brute will be at two-thirds the values of a Tanker. When a Tanker is at 90% mitigation the Brute is at 60%. Where a Tanker would take 200 points of damage in a period of time at 90% resistance a Brute at 60% would take 800. Where a Tanker at 45% defense would average 200 points of damage a Brute would average 800. So the Brute will have to recover sooner. Healing likewise gets boosted for the Tanker, with healing powers healing more. And all this on top of the Tanker having more health. More incoming damage and weaker healing means more time spent healing. Of course the Brute can invest more in his armors, but slots are not infinite. And IO set bonuses spent to fill the gap are not available for other things as Maelwys pointed out.

If the Brute has to spend time recovering from the greater incoming damage the Tanker does not, the Tanker pulls ahead when considering performance over time.

Only help I need is in seeing how consistent your position is.

The numbers are not theoretical but the results of testing and reported clear times, not just theory. Moreover nobody is ttruly asserting no single Brute build ever outperforms a Tanker build. In your case, without seeing your builds and how you play them, nothing can be said against what you have reported. And as indicated more than once in the thread, certain mechanics favor Brutes. Quite a few suggestion are listed at the beginning of the thread and Savage was repeatedly mentioned. But one powerset favoring Brutes is not the hallmark of the AT as a whole.

Then you think Brutes never needed to be nerfed in the first place because what you claim of Brutes now was true of Scrappers then? They were at the time soloing +4×8 content. Establish your position as nonsensical and doubtlessly I will. And it's not like you don't have access to the ignore feature.

I'll expect it right after proc bombing gets fixed and name freeing is implemented.

Don't flatter yourself, as I am responding to multiple people and following the thread. But I think I have established your lack of seriousness here, what with asserting 9 more hp is a meaningful survivability bump over what other ATs can get doing the same splitting of ATOs. I'm fine with ignoring you from here on out.

Brute base health at level 50 is 1499.3 vs 1338.6 for Scrappers and 1204.8 for Stalkers. 3% of those values is 45, 40, and 36. I am not sure how one can claim the suckiness of the Brute procs is made up for by getting 9 more hp at level 50 than a Stalker, or at least do so seriously.

You're saying Brutes are fine because they don't suck in 100% of the game, just 85% of it and being pedantic as goes what Maelwys wrote? So long as Brutes do better than a Tanker or a Scrapper on even one powerset, apparently they are fine as you judge things.

Brute's Fury gives the exact same bonus at 2 and 3 pieces slotted as Scrapper's Strike. Stalker's Guile differs on 2pc by giving Accuracy instead of health. Not seeing how Brutes are ahead. Unrelenting Fury gives +Damage (to the AT which gets the least benefit from such) and a pathetic amount of Regen, compared to +Recovery and +Accuracy for Critical Strikes and Assassin's Mark. Definitely Brutes aren't ahead there. So where precisely are Brutes coming out ahead?

It was Brutes in far more restricted circumstances exceeding Scrapper damage that got the entire Brute AT nerfed. Trapdoor is geared towards area damage, so it is looking at part of the picture. Fury improves DoTs, so Brutes have an edge with burning/bleeding/etc. Pylon is the more single-target focused one. If you are suggesting being the masters of DoTs makes everything fine....