Erratic1

You took Whirling Hands and skipped Power Crash didn't you?

You quoted my response to: There was no context there. It is a flat claim that damage is being nerfed, " across the board". It is not. Period.

"Across the board" means everything. Not just AoE, and not "AoE" when beyond certain numbers of target" and not, "AoE past a certain number and only to those past that number." "Across the board" is a plainly wrong claim.

This is already the case. I came across the awfulness of Kinetic Melee on Live and Homecoming has been humming along for years with plenty of changes to plenty of powersets, yet KM remains miserable. As a result it is rarely seen in the wild. And yes, that is frustrating. But that lack of change did not stop other global changes from going through for gain or loss.

The word "buff" means something. Are you continuously, 100% of the time under a damage buff you have applied to yourself, say like Build Up? Even if so, that is not base damage being lowered. It is not changing.

Powerset balance has to happen on its own. Kinetic Melee is a miserable set regardless of AT. Its existence however is not a reason to delay global changes. KM simply needs to be addressed in its own right. Same for any other underperforming set.

Procs aren't "the" problem. They contribute to it. And damage is not being nerfed across the board. If you are not facing crowds above the overcap limit, you will not see a difference (this is not to say I agree with the limits as they are, just that your notion of damage being uniformly lowered is wrong).

Panic which is being mirrored currently somewhere else? 😛 I do not see much argument as goes the overcap penalty being too extreme nor too much that points at other factors being major contributors to slowing down Tanker performance on the test server. So starting from 30% being too extrreme a cut in Tanker damage output, how much is a proper/acceptable amount?

Blasters may manage pretty impressive Trapdoor times, but its facing Council, not exactly known for their Mez usage. I would also be careful at levelling, "too high DPS" at a DPS class lest some angry Blaster fan make a similar comment as goes survivability and Tankers. DPS is, after all, the sole purpose of Blasters.

That is a finite number. The question is which order of infinity are we talking here...countable or uncountable?

If you cannot keep 11+ targets up, neither can you keep Fury continuously pegged.

I've got at least two more Tankers planned for the next patch.

Damage is what clears missions. All the foes in the mission represent a minimum (because they can heal) amount of damage which must be done. Tankers deal it faster. There is no dancing around that.

So Beta Tankers are dealing more damage than Brutes, whether unbuffed or maximally buffed?

The decay rate was decreased a fair bit back. I typically assume 85% fury when planning.

Procs are not untouched. Making the areas larger as opposed to the increased area coming from Gauntlet means fewer procs as those are penalized for radius.

Tanker base damage is higher than Brute damage, but not a lot. Base. Foot Stomp for a Tanker is 161 vs 146 for a Brute (City of Data). Slotting damage enhancers doesn't change this. Fury however quickly pushes the Brute ahead as that is even more damage enhancement.

Tankers have superior target caps.

Tankers and Scrappers both have the same damage cap of 500%. Brutes are at 700%--500% plus 200% so their Fury always contributes. Brutes used to cap at 770% iirc.

They are hitting more targets but the damage falloff means the total damage past cap is greatly reduced. So you hit 10 foes normally but the damage you do to 11-16 is not one-third of what you did on the first 10 but more like one-month (not a calculated number, but rather given to underscore the damage drops greatly).

Not going to happen. Brutes would be more damaging than they ever have, and they were nerfed to keep them under Scrapper damage in all contexts. Again, not going to happen. Already done.

Certainly seems to point that way.

Quibble: It took you 40% longer. Performance decreased by 100%-1/1.4=28.57%. That is a value more in line with what other people are reporting. If you do not use procs, then procs are not the source of the difference. That leaves increased mob regeneration and overcap to be considered. On live, if foes had 40% more health it would take you just as long as it did on the beta server. For the monsters on beta to generate 40% more life they would have to live 12*(40/5) = 96 second longer than they do live. If every monster you were killing took 96 seconds longer to kill, then unless the mission has shockingly few opponents. So in repetition of what I said previously, I do not think there is much explanation to be had there, though it might contribute in a small way. The overcap change is basically dropping damage past cap values precipitously quickly. Qualitatively speaking, it only applies when (a) you are using an area attack and (b) there are enough foes to reach an overcap situation. A good way to test overcap impact would be to not run at x8 but at x1, where you are mostly not facing crowds of opponents which push past the overcap limit as that should in theory give the same results as live. It is probably worth testing the overcap impact because, at this point, if the results are different, then some other, unmentioned/unknown factor is at work and it would be good to demonstrate that if that is the case.

I am going to make a few observations and am not making judgements. I believe Ston's goals were to test the limits of what was possible. To the extent that Tanker builds are not what would be observed in the wild, neither were the Brute builds. Cross Punch is probably used to eek out extra global recharge reduction. So artificial but if it is being done on both sides, not necessarily a stretch. Procs however, regardless of what one might argue, are far, Far, FAR more prevalent in at least discussion in the Tanker subforum than Brutes because Brutes do not have the luxury of their maximum survivability as easily as Tankers do. We do not know what drove Developer consideration for the current changes. Neither do we know what testing was done by the developers. What we do know is what is on Test. And that is what it is, a test. Go, document the impact between Live and Test and present the results in the appropriate Feedback thread. Previous Test iterations have been modified due to reasoned and researched results. As we are in the Tanker subforum and discussing Tanker potential changes, I am going to note I am definitely not seeing the overcap damage fall-off, at least at its current values, as a good thing. The curve should be more gentle than it is.