Pbuckley818

Been playing Ice melee on Scrapper recently, and it has a few powers that look more like CC powers. (I can see why it was restricted to Tank in live) It's a ton of fun, maybe something like this could be done with the whip, if it had to be done that is.

You know manipulation would be an interesting solution to the melee conundrum, many of the sets do come with built in melee attacks, and the CC could be used to mitigate a portion of damage, any powers that overlap with support sets could be traded for Defensive toggles (or just more melee as well), it's an interesting thought, but I am not sure how it would play out in game. I have been playing an Ice Melee scrapper of late and it's a TON of fun. And the idea of increased self support being a component of the AT's inherent isn't a shabby one either. Another Idea I have considered is instead of gutting the Support sets to add protections, we could actually make a new power category which mixes melee sets with defensive sets.

A lot of melee sets come with -Def, I am actually curious as to how useful it is in general. Ice also comes with a lot of -Recharge, which does make me curious. The -SPD I am familiar enough with as far as utility goes. Important to note that odds are I will be going Scrapper, my brother likes to tank, and I don't want to confuse people. Besides I got that Shield Street Justice guy up pretty high only to realize how little fun I was having, part of which was just how slow the gameplay was. The other being just how passive the support felt, and while it may surprise you looking at the numbers Scrappers are actually better debuffer's (Well other than the Tanks innate -20 Resistance Debuff). They may even be better at buffing too, but I'd have to look at that again. Ice/Rad Scrapper does however sound quite tempting as I do know that those effects have a tendency to feel more like your doing something for your group than not. Now I just need to decide what power pools I'll be taking, and what powers I will be skipping. I ended up having to go over to TP for movement on my Defender, so I am tempted to go Superspeed/Combat Jumping. But Force of Will comes with a cheaper version of super jump which I like as well as a Nice debuff and a PBAoE knockdown, which is not too shabby. Furthermore I can take the Presence Taunt guilt free on a Scrapper (For off Tanking purposes, so I am curious to see just how effective those fear powers are. Leadership doesn't combo as well with Rad though, as Rad is a Resistance Set (Well actually it's a Regen set with Resistance powers, and Debuff's but I digress.) So oddly enough between the fact that the scrapper won't be seeing a Leadership buff in the future, and it not comboing well with rad (well other than I think Tactics), I am unlikely to touch leadership unless someone convinces me otherwise. Might still Grab Fire Mastery too as odd as it is for the character concept, though maybe energy?

I disagree about Goldside a bit. The Zones are more distinct than many of Paragon Cities, it's just their are only 3-4 (If you count the Sewers) of them pre-21. (Unless you mean missions maps in which case you are kind of right, they really loved their shiny new assets in Praetoria). As far as Goldside Story Arcs go they work different you get 3 on each side. One "Good Guy" Arc, one "Bad Guy" Arc and a Central Arc, (for both sides meaning a total of 6 different arcs), you may also swap sides or go "Undercover" by taking jobs from the enemy, In order to weave between story arcs. What's desperately needed is a level guide to make sure you don't out level contacts gutting the story, along with all the drama and moral dilemma's because you never get to the good bit's. Also sense the chance to swap sides tends to be on the last mission in a zone you won't get the chance if you out level it. Praetoria is like a totally different game. That being said a guide would stll be nice.

Ooh... Cool this is helpful. I never got pass the Hollows when I played as a kid, beating frostfire was the height of my achievements back then. I did finish the first 20 levels of Praetorian Content during Going Rogue though. So this is a cool guide to play with.

I am considering dropping Combat Jumping for Recall Friend how much of a hit, if any really, is that?

If (Buff/Debuff)/Melee can be implemented, and effective. I think most people will be happy with it. I just don't feel that pure unaltered Support powers will do, sure some might work just fine; Rad, Kin, Storm, Time, Nature, Poisons all spring to mind (I think Dark will do fine too, but I have very little knowledge on the set.). But many if not most just wont do. Not to mention that I am not entirely certain how the playstyle will line up, I really want to play something that can actually get up in enemies faces, like a scrapper, rather than something that has to beat around the bush about it like a stalker. But that's just my two cents. I wounder how hard it would be to implement an innate that gives them a unique power pool, something like a slightly more potent Fighting Pool might help.

So I have been noticing with most grab builds that people rarely take melee abilities. Am I so much better served only taking the ranged attacks and MAYBE Frenzy, that I shouldn't bother with melee? I mean I kind of decided to try veats out mainly because I wanted a melee to mid-range support toon, I have been enjoying Bane (With a modified version of the Ultimate Support build). But I have been wanting to try out Crabber to see if it's more my speed, more scrapper/brute than the stalker that bane is, but from what I can tell it's almost more like a Tanky Blaster/Mastermind.

So a Nictis then? Make sure the human host was some obscure Fascist/Nazi, if you want to be on brand. Anyways I play a Soldier on Blueside. He's got a slightly convoluted backstory where he was tricked into joining Arachnos as they deceived him into believing he had an obscure disease only they had a treatment for, which they dubbed "Innsmouth Syndrome", when in reality he's just half-merman. (he never knew his parents) He ended up defecting out of his own sense of honor/justice. Not that hard to come up with a backstory for this sort of thing really, mines actually relatively convoluted as I wanted to it to tie in more to the Leviathan mastery stuff I knew I'd be taking. Well if that sort of thing matters to you.

Ty, will test it out, might make room for Radiation Infection if the "Sacrifice for the Gods of Metal" method proves too much of a hassle.

Sure would love to have a foundation to work off of.

It is done, to make things make sense The Rad is his inborn mutant power, (Maybe he's one of the Nuclear 90 like Fusionette?) the Sonic is a device used in conjunction with his amazing vocal talent/skill. This is going to be fun. I wonder If I can move this to the Defender Forum.

I've gotten My Shield/Street Tanker to lvl 30 and it certainly works as a tank, but I don't really feel like I do a lot of group support, mostly because the effects are fairly invisible to me. Then again I am not that far into the build and have yet to have had a chance to invest in leadership powers, will probably do so a bit more in the future. I think the -Res, +Def is pretty solid, but I just don't feel it. Still fun build will continue playing. I figured I'd do a quick run down of the powers that really fit this general concept, and what they do. So others can start trying to make their own "Paladin" builds. With my personal subjective ratings for them, as far as this concept goes not as an overall judgment. Defense 1. Bio- Has a -Resist Debuff, nuff said. Also keeping in mind it is one of the "Top Tier" Defensive sets ATM at least. Still not a huge focus on group support, as self heals though which do add to the "Feeling" of a support character, even if you can't heal allies. 3/5 Disgusting Growths 2. Dark Armor- AoE Fear + an AoE Disorient, plus some self healing and a self rez. Nice. 4/5 Moody Teenagers 3. Ice Armor- Gets a -Speed, -Defense AoE aura fairly early on, nice but not really te best, aslo a costume hog, which is an issue with bio too, but at least bio makes up for it with great abilities. 2/5 Tongues stuck to an icy lamp post 4. Radiation Armor- A -Regen effect on a self heal, nice, Taunt aura comes with a - Defence, -ToHit effect, that's pretty good... Wait, what's this a group heal, oh and it comes with more -Defense? SPICY! (Can these be slotted with Achilles Heel?) 5/5 Large Green Rage Monsters 5. Shield Defense- A -Damage Debuff, as well as a Group Defense buff, and an AoE knockdown. Also has a cool gimmick where you do more damage the more enemies you face, and have more defense the more allies you have to protect. Fairly solid. 4/5 Patriotic Americans Melee (Keeping in mind all Tanker T1's have a -resist Debuff) 1. Broad Sword- Almost every attack has -Defense (Again I wonder what would happen if I just slotted Achilles Heel into all if not most them), also ends with two single target knock attacks. 3/5 Deus Vults 2. Dark Melee- So much -To Hit, a single target fear, and some survivability powers. It's functional. 2/5 Nose Rings 3. Dual Blades- Has -Defense, and a Knockdown before factoring in combo's, once Combos are factored in add more - Defense, an AoE knockdown, -ToHit, and a - Damage. OF course supposedly doing Combo's actually reduces your overall DPS, so not sure about this one. ?/5 Confused Swashbucklers 4. Energy Melee- SO MUCH DISORIANT, but also very Single Target. 2/5 Glowing Fists 5. Ice Melee- So much Slow, for both movement and attacks speed and AoE knockdown, and some controller esq holds/mez's. Solid. 4/5 Broken Necks 6. Katana- It's... it's just Broad Sword Again? Well you can't use it with shield so 0/5 Angry Weebs, seriously though same score. 7. Kinetic Melee- Lots of -Damage with a good deal of Stun, Knock, and Disorient, but mstly single target. 3/5 Sun Salutations 8. Martial Arts- Some solid knock/disorient/stun with a -Def, but mostly single target. 2/5 Flying Crane Kicks 9. Psionic Melee- Lots of -Recharge, as well as a confuse, a hold, some disorient and an Aoe Knock. 3/5 Jedi Masters 10. Staff Fighting- Has a good deal pf Knock/Disorient including an AoE Knock and can have a few different debuffs depending on their current form (-Res, -Attack/movement speed, or -Def) looks like a really solid and fun power, need to check it out. 4/5 10ft poles 11. Stone Melee- Knock for days and two Aoe Knocks at that. 3/5 Flying Boulders 12. Street Justice- 2 Disorients, 2 Knockdowns (one of which is AoE with a chance for Fear), as well as a power that does both, a -Res Power, and a -Def power. 5/5 Tyler Durden's. 13. Super Strength- A Lot like Stone Melee Actually. Higher damage but has rage crash. 4/5 Generic Superheroes. 14. Titan Weapons- Lots of stun/knock/disorient as well as a -Def power, and -Res power. Decent AoE too with almost all powers having cleave. 4/5 Thunder Gods. 15. War Mace- Lot's of Knock/Disorient. 3/5 Angry Bird Woman Again just rating on how well they match up to the concept of a "Support Tanker".

I think Sonic/Sonic is where I am gonna sit at, though rad is tempting. I like to heal, but that Agro man... Not sure if it goes with the Metal inspired schtick either. EDIT: Oh my God If I can convince an ally to take a fall (Who am I kidding someone will totally just off themselves by pulling an extra group), I can combo Fallout, Vengeance, and Mutation, to do ungodly things... The temptation is so strong.

I am convinced Defender it is. I shall be a god of armor stripping. Let all my foes kneel before me, glad only in their birthday suits and despair! Honestly I am fairly addicted to -Resist as I have a Tanker optimized for it too. I think I might have a problem.

Is their a reason for that? More - Resist from attacks or better support progression for better survival, ect? So I can make an informed decision.

Nuff said, worried it might be a bit redundant and possibly reach -Res cap far too soon. So couple of questions. Does the Sonic Attack -Res Debuff stack, or is it a single static debuff that is only refreshed by further attacks? Is there a -Res Cap, and if so what is it. Dudes a Rockstar/Superhero, not the most original idea, but I think I've only seen it maybe once in game.

Is this a Serious Joke, or a Joke Joke? What do I care, so long as I get to rate hero rescues and villain attacks like an uber, I'm good.

This I like, it's a lot like the stuff I was doing with Confront with it debuffing the target.

While I do get your point, starting it off with any given AT is going to have it start off unbalanced. The numbers will have to be adjusted to match this AT no matter what, so it is better to start off with no illusions of legitimacy. Starting with VEATS may present problems, but I feel it will help to produce a superior design.

Again I feel you are missing my core point. I will have to create a new thread once I have built more power Examples than this but maybe this will help. Yes this is very VEAT like but it was actually designed primarily after the Shield Powerset. It's basically an attempt at porting Captain America into CoH, it was only the first I designed as it was the easiest to desighn. Honestly due to not having Phalanx fighting (Mildly Ironic I know) it is squishier than a Scrapper and maybe even a Stalker while in a full team, but slightly tankier while soloing. which is fair as it doesn't deal nearly as much damage while soloing, but provides group buffs while in a team. Classical Warfare (Again Ballpark numbers.) T1: Deflection- Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res (Smash, Lethal) Self: +7.5% Def (Melee) T2: Battle Agility- Toggle: Self +DEF (Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff) Self: +7.5% Def (Ranged, AoE), +14 Res (Def Debuff) T3: Battle Tactics: Maneuvers- Toggle: PBAoE Team +DEF(All) Team (But not the Protector): +10% DEF (All), Self: +7.5% DEF (All). T4: True Grit- Auto: Self +Res (Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Toxic), +Max Health Self: +7.5% Res, +10% HP. T5: Battle Tactics: Assault- Toggle: PBAoE, Team +DMG Res (Taunt, Placate) Team (But not the Protector): +15% To Hit, Self: +7.5% To Hit. T6: Rally- PBAoE, Team +Res (Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Fear, Confuse, Repel, Knockback, Def Debuff) Team: +10% Res (For 120 Sec). T7: Battle Tactics: Leadership- Toggle PBAoE Team +ACC Res (Confuse, Fear) +Perception Team (But not the Protector): +10% To Hit, Self: +5% To Hit. T8: Shield Charge- PBAoE, Superior DMG(Smash), Foe Knockdown, Self Teleport. T9: Battle Tactics: Interference- Toggle: PBAoE, Foes -To Hit, -DMG, -Def. Foes: -5% To Hit, -7.5% DMG, -5% Def. I plan to get 5-8 of these done before even trying to take the set into testing, so as to have things to compare against. Charisma- Empathy/Willpower Storm-Storm/(Ice Armor or Electric Armor) Kin/(Energy, Reflexes, or Invulnerability) Rad Dark Fire? Poisons? Nature? Time?

I am well aware of the fact that the AT will need a more rigid and economical design. However the fact is that VEATS are the closest thing in the game to a working Melee/Support AT and they are fairly balanced against all other AT's. (Otherwise they would be pretty much the only thing you see in game to begin with. I am looking at the game as a whole rather than just one or two AT's. Tanker, Scrapper, Stalker, Defender, Corruptor, Soldier, and Widow, are all things I am looking at when working on this design. I am aslo looking at game design in general especially how what few games that have implamented such a Class did so, to work out where this AT needs to sit in general. If you are concerned about AT balance look at the things I have posted, not worry about non posted numbers just yet, and tell me how you feel about what substantial information you have been given. If it makes you feel better this is my end goal. (As unhelpfull as I know the meter thing from the AT selection screen really is) Stats (Like in the game these are more of a rough metric for the intended result of the AT’s design than a perfect reflection of the final result.) Survivability: 6-7 Melee Damage: 6-7 Ranged Damage: 2 Crowd Control: 4 Support: 6-8 Pets: 2 In short lower overall values than the Veats.

That's kind of what I am doing, the AT is loosing range for slightly more support than a VEAT. Basically think about the levels you get froma Mastermind only MAYBE a bit better. Part of me really wants a full on support AT, but I am beginning to doupt it will be possible to implament one without first buffing the other support toons who get short changed way to much in CoH design to begin with. But seeing as we are trying to avoid power bloat... My take on the Protector uses the VEATS as a starting point. Even thane the damage is at the same level as Tanker as of right now, which is already lower than a VEATS. Of course I am open to dropping the damage to Corruptor levels, a lot of this is pure theory until we can get the AT into a test server. Also I would argue mildly that some VEATS have some fairly strong Support potential more so on the Soldier than the Widow, who is more like a Tanky Dominator with Group Buffs. As the VEATS can put out some Solid Buff/Debuff Potential.

You have obviously never played a VEAT.

I mean we are already taking something away, range. However how far that reall goes towards paying for the AT's defense I cannot be certain. On top of that getting Defender or Corrupter Damage numbers on a Melee AT worries me. The Squishier melee AT's rely on that extra damage to take out enemies quickly, before they can b taken out in turn, sure some Buff sets can really optimize a charecters damage, but do we really want an AT that further insintives the sets that are already super incentivized. The more I look at it the more convenced I am the the AT needs to have support numbers that are at or most probably below Corruptor values in order to give use something that feels fun to play, yet remains balanced. I know how hard it is for the OP at the moment though I origionally wanted to insist that this AT be focused super heavy on support, but now I'd just settle on something modeled after a VEAT, of course I still believe we can trade in The VEATS ranged for a bit more support, how much, no clue, but it should work non the less. I am also not really looking at making the AT a Tank, maybe some builds, but not as much of a focus. Onto side tracking a but into my desighn. One of the majore THings I am looking to do with the Protectore is unify the classes -resist. Some support Powers may still have a -resist but I want to avoid over incentivizing powersets that possesss -resist debuffs. Heres how I am doing this 1 most of the support sets won't have their -resist power, if it is too central to the sts identity, it's -resist will be lower or removed. Secondly All Protectors will have access to. Innate: Sundering The Protector is a cunning tactician and as a result is always looking for a chance to soften up an opponent’s defenses, as a result every melee attack the Protector makes has a chance of being a Sundering Blow. Reducing the targets defenses and leaving them momentarily exposed to attack. The higher the rank of the target, the greater the chance for a successful Sundering Blow. The standard chance of a Sundering Blow is 5% against players, pets, and critters of Minion rank and below, and 10% against critters above Minion. Sunder Debuff -20 Res, for 5 sec. Does not stack, even with multiple Protectors. Secondary: Melee As Per Tanker, however they get a variant of confront at T5 called Goad, and a variant of Placate at T6 called Faint. (Some powers may get Faintat T5 and Goad at T6) The damage should be akin to tankers as well, nothing to write home about, but it should get the job done. (Assume current Tanker values for now). Look at what powers stalkers generally loose in exchange for Assassin strike to see what powers the Protector looses. T5: Goad- Ranged, Foe: Taunt, -Damage, -To Hit. Foes: Mag 4 Taunt, -15% Def, -20% Res. (For 20 sec. Every 45 sec.) T6: Faint- Ranged, Foe: Placate, -Defense, -Res (All) Foes: Mag 4 Placate, -15% Def, -20% Res. (For 20 sec. Every 45 sec.) Conversely they may just get Faint without the Placate, and no Goad. But as of right no I like the idea of them getting a confront and a placate, Ideally they might even be able to tiem it to take pressure off a struggling tank, or a squishy that accedentally pulled aggro, thoughts? I do worry that it's a little overturned. Yet I feel their oresist being inantely single target or locked behind a Critical Hit like Innate, should be a pretty good counter too that. Of course you can't slot innates, so maybe it should be stronger? IDK.