Pbuckley818

Hmm... I wonder how well the slight defensive buffs from the somewhat altered Support powers would combo with say the Blaster Tertiary powers. Maybe that could be tuned to make them more capable of surviving in High end content. Another thing you could do is take some of the Ranged Defense utility of some of the powers like all the knockback and replace them with defensive abilities as well. As all this would be doing is replacing Ranged Defenses for Melee ones. If you look at the powers this could help a lot of powers out a bit.

Yeah, I was referring to the -DMG Debuff somehow that keeps getting mistranslated in my head. Regardless while the difference is significant, it essentially does what we need it to which is good. It's ok to loose useful bits of utility like -Fly so long as the core utility remains intact. I am not saying their should not be trade offs, I am saying that those trade off need to be considered and allow the AT to still function within it's role. As far as the PBAoE toggle element goes, I was only applying it to fire and forget buffs like the team defensive buffs from Thermal for instance. (You know the ones that hit pretty much everyone in front of you and last forever and a day while recharging fairly quickly and costing little to no end?) The idea there would be the need to keep do End management, when normal you would not really need to worry about End on those abilities as you'd just refresh them when the time comes. If anything that could be argued to be a significant of a Debuff to the power except now it also effects you, so in theory it should be balanced. The only power I can think of this being an issue with is Density Increase which is also a Break Free effect, that acts as a cc resist (and I think either damage resist or Def buff but I cant remember off the top of my head) . Ideally that would remain untouched and the Kin would get a similar self toggle instead of their repulsion power, that gives the same (or a very similar) buff (Though maybe a bit weaker?) but not the break free effect. You seem to think that a little survivability buff is going to massively unbalance a Melee Support AT if not for a large Support trade off. (Or at least that is the impression you are giving off) This is a large misconception. Melee classes typically don't need to loose damage or utility in exchange for their survivability based abilities due to the fact that this is already compensation for being a melee class. Defenders and Corrupters will remain more popular based purely on the fact that they are ranged and will be in less danger, so unless the Melee/Support is balanced to take hit's like a Brute, their probably won't be an issue. Having them be at or just below Scrapper/Stalker level with damage output around or just a bit higher than a tanker/corrupter is not going to break the game or make them more preferred to the ranged AT's. If anything it's going to make them an dubious pick, due to the inherent danger of hanging around in the mosh pit that is Melee.

What's the point of playing a support At that's not good at supporting it's team, or a Melee AT that can't survive in melee? Yes the powers might be objectively better in that they will have more useful options to pick from, but in the long run it just means that the class will have more difficult decisions to make when picking powers. Furthermore I am not saying the PBAoE solution is the only one, their are simpler solutions for instance you could simply choose to replace two to three of every support powers powers with defensive buffs, I'd prefer PBAoE toggles just to spread the love (as it is a support class) but that's not even necessary, just a taste thing. But it is essential that the powers a Powerset looses are those it can afford to do without. The core of a Powersets identity and utility must remain intact, otherwise why not just play a scrapper? Regardless, not even that is the only solution, just the only one I can come up with off the top of my head. Even though I have yet to completely update the Power (Though I mostly did) I have all but surrendered on the PBAoE changes on my own AT concept actually (Except on O2 boost I argue that change needs to be made to Storm Summoning as a whole.) You'd also be surprised the sort of Defensive Powers you can dig up if you look, did you know Chilling Embrace is already a PBAoE Snowstorm with an attached Def buff, because I sure know I didn't. Furthermore If you look at many of the Support AT's you will notice powers that where clearly intended to be ranged survival tools that can be replaced by a Armor Power without any real issue, as that is what would be needed to begin with. Some powers wouldn't even need changes, especially the new ones (Melee/Time looks like a lot of fun) while others might even need a bit of a nerf for a Melee AT (looking at you Kinetics, you slimy basted). Also not got a problem with people wanting a Support Tanker, either. (Though I do wonder if that could simply be achieved by new Tanker Powersets designed to facilitate the playstyle) I actually like the Idea behind the Paladin AT even if I find the execution a tad clunky. Again these choices need to be made carefully and deliberately, I am glad to see all the idea's being thrown around they mean a lot, but what's the point if we can't expand on those idea's through critique and contemplation?

I am simply saying that not every power would translate well, their is a reason we never got a Melee Support AT to begin with, and that's because the powers would not translate well. Secondly I am not knocking any of the tankier builds, but a lot of them remove essential support abilities while leaving unnecessary powers intact, the second part was me countering the notion that concessions would need to be made to make a Melee Support AT functionally survivable. I wasn't calling the OP Lazy either I was saying that just slapping a Support secondary on the scrapper would a lazier alternative than doing the work to adapt the powers for a Melee AT. Everyone seems to forget that with a few exceptions almost every powers in the game can be very different based on the AT in question I mean just look at the Scrapper and Stalker. Finally how would a Melee Support AT overshadow other support AT's it is literally a support AT except it cannot fight from a distance or kite it's opponents? It needs defensive options to survive at all, and as things are some Powersets would work, but most (especially the older ones) would not. Maybe I used somewhat strong language but I do believe my point still stands. I'd strongly prefer that the effort be put in to do it right. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't be happy to just get something like the Bulwark, but I also feel It is correct to critique it. I am not just putting down the idea, but pointing out the logical flaw in it, maybe a solution can be found to it's glaring problem, but nobody is going to fix the ship if nobody points out the gaping hole in it's side. (See what I did there... because Bulwark refers to a ships armor plating and... never mind.)

I think part of it is that a controllers job is typically to keep people still so everyone else can hit it. Also controllers can always go Wind/Storms If they absolutely must have KB (Which also might be why it doesn't have any it might bake that combo slightly redundant). Still does feel a bit odd, and maybe a bit cynical afterall you probably would have been required to purchase this power originally, so they would have wanted to make it as desirable as possible in order to facilitate purchases.

Hmm... Cool thought. BUT, would statesmen ask for a bigger statue? I mean I get giving it a better location, but as far as I am aware, Atlas and Talos have the biggest statues in game mostly because of how big they were to begin with. I'd suggest adding a another statue of statesman to the entry hall of city all, and leave it at that.

I mean I wouldn't be too against that... But I feel like that might actually a be a bit harder to implement… What If tankers all just got an innate that grants a small buff to nearby allies based on their chosen armor power?

I personally find that a middle ground can easily be struck between just recklessly throw the support powers on a Melee AT ( Making some powers clearly better than others: Kinetics, Poisons, Time, while many of the more thematic and fun idea will suffer: Empathy, Storms, ect.) and gutting the utility of the support powersets to place a bunch of armor powers on an AT. Yes it would be more work, but their already adding a new AT and it's better to do something right the first time around than to do it in the laziest way possible. Turning many of the group defensive buffs into PBAoE Toggles would be enough to have a immediate positive impact on the AT, on top of that the removal and replacement of many of the AT's more "Skippable" abilities for more pertinent ones isn't to hard to envision. That being said I do like the Support/Melee Momentum Passive idea, it's like an inversion of the Protector's Glory mechanic. I mean if your focusing on group support obviously the group needs more group support, and if your focusing on Damage obviously the group needs more damage, But at the same time it feels really punishing It would need to be really fine tuned to prevent, "Ok I spam Melee now, now I spam Buff/Debuff" just so I can snowball for an important ability, which could feel vary frustrating and not tactical in the least. (Almost like a modern MMO)

I really feel like the Bastion is a more original concept with more merit to the game than the sentinel. Though I might suggest more of a Defense/(Ranged/Control) or at least Defense/Assault. Still as far as that second one goes yeah Bastion is more interesting. My opinion on the first is obviously too Bias.

Well that was pretty fast. Honestly I love this idea! Guess I gotta go clean up the Protector some more.

Might be cool, maybe it will draw more attention to some of the different ideas. Or everyone just vote for their own. Be nice if you could enforce a don't vote for your own idea policy. Though I guess we could just go full honor system.

Whelp, after going through and doing the first Powerset Variant I had to make some more tweaks to Exemplar (Now Protector). Hopefully for the better but the AT has changed quite a bit. No more Crit Tokens, and Glory is a lot more important.

I guess I was too busy staring at the skyline to notice, I know their are SOME cars in Imperial City I nearly got run over in game yesterday as I was reading lore from the wiki on my second screen. I mean come on can't someone walk across the street while heavily distracted without being run over by an overzealous delivery man? I bet they don't have cars in Nova Praetoria to add to the overly sanitary feel of the zone. You know "everything in it's place" and all that.

Ok, I'll probably give it a shot when I have two Respecs to waste. It'd be unwise not to be careful about it.

Glad to hear that Bane is the main suggestion, I can't stand Crab (Though Kid me would have LOVED it) and I already have a Soldier at 14 which doesn't hurt. Now I just need help with a build. big question, is it a complete mistake to invest in the Medicine Power Pool to get some heals? I know heals are not that important especially as you get to higher levels, (And I don't know what the heal Stats on Soldier are like) but It just doesn't like a support build to me without heals. What's your advice on that?

OK, so I have been in a pickle for a while, I have been wanting to play a Melee Support character for a while now, and I was noticing that the Arachnos Archetypes have pretty descent Melee, and about the same amount of group support as a mastermind. I had never played these archetypes when the game was out. I usually just played Defender and Scrapper, so honestly I know next to nothing about them. So here is my question are their any decent support heavy melee builds for either of these two AT's or their different sub-classes? Could I get some help on this. I'd prefer to have a decent heal too, but I would settle for Good Buffs/Debuffs.

Well this is embarrassing, I had forgotten what it is called in game when you down level to play with your lowbie buddies. "You are Exemplared" this makes my AT concepts name awkward, and mildly confusing, So I am changing it from Exemplar to Protector. I will add that I like your description a lot, it summarizes the archetype a lot better than anything I said on the original thread.

As a long time lover of storm summoning, I feel I must protest. Why would you get rid of O2 boost but keep Gale? Gale is situational already, but on a melee AT you might as well be giving them a self Debuff.

I am going to go for the Melee/(Support/Defense) Idea. I have some idea's on to adapt the sets for the architype, that aren't just replacing or adding armor skills on top of the existing kit. That being said many Support Power Sets already have a handful of abilities that would be useless for the Exemplar. For instance what does a Melee need with so much knockback? Powers like Gale and Repulsion Field have some utility on a Ranged character as a self/backline defense utility. On a melee class however, yeah no, they could at least be swapped out for knockdown which in and of itself be a increase to the classes survivability. On top of this Defenders actually do have some pretty good survivability tools already, it's just that much of their vulnerability comes from not being able to use those abilities on themselves. So turning many of their abilities into PBAoE's would be much appreciated. That being said we need to be carefull about what abilties we tweak to allow the Exemplar to use on themselves, as we don't want the class to become a flat buff over a Defender. I am currently working on a list of 5-6 variant support sets. Including 1. Kinetics (Obviously) 2. Storm Summoning (A personal favorite, even if not the best toolkit out there) 3. Empathy (Everyone seems to want to see this one.) 4. Cold Domination OR Force Field (Based on Feedback) 5. A New Powerset (Mostly ripping powers from the Shield, and Arachnos Training Power Sets, as well as others.) 6. Maybe one or two more Powersets based on feedback. Finally for a Defense of the Passive. Technically speaking the primary bit you will want to focus on is the Glory Mechanic, with Honor being more of a fringe benefit. Honor is mostly passive and something you probably aren't going to have to pay much if any attention to. You can't really control It all that much, and honestly I might just remove it outright, if not just make it a pure passive like critical hit. (I did like your idea about a Critical Hit that only affects secondary effects, I plan on responding to you thread once I have picked it apart a bit more.) Whereas Glory is primarily a mechanic designed to make Exemplar gameplay more fast paced and challenging to compensate for the many advantages it will enjoy over the other Support Archetypes. One way of doing this is to regulate it's support power potency and or use rate via a class mechanic, both of which Glory does. It may be a bit much for some, but maybe that will just increase the usage of some of the older less exciting melee powers that don't see as much use nowadays.

I just added ANOTHER Melee Fender Idea to the Forums. It's called Exemplar. It's a bit Half baked at the moment, but if you think it's worth adding, It'd be much appreciated.

Yes, another one. (I figure the more people ask for an Archetype like this, the more likely it will happen, also the more people tackling the idea from different angles the better the end result will be) I am not as familiar with all the underlying math, (I am an artist not a mathematician) so I hope someone will be willing to help me with it. Funnily enough I started with an attempt to simplify this popular Idea, but ended up getting a little over ambitious. (This is the story of my Life) Furthermore, their are a few half-formed ideas here that I am going to need feedback to sift thru. Let's start with the basics. Protector The greatest figures of history often lead by example. Inspiring Awe, and often Terror in others with great and terrible deeds. Thus is the way of the Protector charging headfirst into the fray as a shinning example to their allies, and an undeniable threat to their foes. Primary: Melee Secondary: Buff/Debuff (Variant) Survivability: 7* Melee Damage: 7 Ranged Damage: 2 Crowd Control: 4 Support: 5-10* Pets: 2 See Glory and Honor* Inherent Power: Glory & Honor Honor is a Passive effect that grants the Protector a stack of glory evetime they land a Successful Melee Attack. (Up to 5 Stacks), as well as applies a on hit Taunt similar to the Scrappers. No one Melee Attack can grant more than 1 stack of Glory, even an AoE will only grant a single stack of Glory. Glory is a buff which increases the Protectors health regeneration & damage resistance as well as the potency of all the Protector’s activated (Non-Passive, Non-Toggle) support powers. With no Glory stacks the Protector's Support Powers should be on par with a Mastermind, while with five Glory stacks they should be on par with a Defender. Stacks of Glory fade somewhat quickly, but are refreshed every time you get a new stack of Glory. A Stack of Glory is Consumed every time the Exemplar uses an Active (Non-Passive, Non-Toggle) Support Power. Primary Power: Melee While the intention is for support to be the Protectors primary Focus, I wanted to leave room for the existing support classes, The Defender being the pure support class, and Corrupter it's more aggressive counterpart, with the Protector being a tougher front line variant. It just feels natural to build the class more like a melee Corrupter (with higher damage and survivability to compensate for it's higher risk playstyle) as I feel like that will grant more merit to the archetypes existence overall. All that being said the classes melee powers should be Somewhere in between the Tanker and the Brute, with the only real difference from other Melee AT's being a unique power they get instead of Confront, Taunt, or Placate (See Below). Dauntless You muster your indomitable will and stubborn pride to stand against your foes in an inspiring act of courage. Consuming all stacks of Glory to increase your resistance to all damage based on the number of stacks consumed, and immediately breaking free from any Sleep, Hold, Immobilization, Disorient, Fear, Confuse, or Knockback effects. Cooldown: Slow. Effects; Click, Self Special +Resist (All). Of course baring this they could just get Confront. Secondary Power: Buff/Debuff (Variant) I am currently planning to give a treatment to an array of mostly dissimilar power sets to serve as examples of how Protector Buff/Debuff Powersets work such as: Kinetics Empathy/Pain (First Draft) Storm Summoning (Third Draft) Forcefields A Mostly new Set made mostly from the Shields and Soldier/Widow Secondary Powersets. And at least one other based on community feedback. Should I maybe do these in a different Thread or maybe a google doc? Breath Control (Empathy) Qi, Chi, Prana, Breath all names for the animating energy of the spirit. Breath Control grants you dominion over this fundamental energy. Allows you to heal and empower allies as well as yourself. Breath Control's Healing is output is unmatched. (I still haven't figured this one out yet. It's so selfless which is great for a defender, not so much for this AT, yet Empathy is so desired by those wanting this AT concept that it feels wrong not to do it. Need someone with more knowledge of the power, as well as Regeneration, or any other useful Def powers that might act as a substitutions for it.) Psychic Vampirism Psychic Vampirism gives a character the ability to manipulate, nullify and amplify pain via the manipulation of psychic energy. Ultimately this grants the user powerful healing, buffing and debuffing powers. Its healing output is considerable! Storm Calling You are a force of nature; Storm Calling allows you to call upon the raging storm within to aid your allies and wreak havoc upon your foes.

That isn't an entirely bad idea for a more Paladin Esq class. What if they just released a few new power Sets for Tanker designed to grant group support? Empathic Armor Anyone? Maybe boost the Tankers general support stats? Just an idea that could be interesting to see.

I have been ruminating on this a bit sense I saw homecomings Sentinel. My personal take has been that with few exemptions the class would need to have somewhat altered support abilties. One notable exception is Kinetics which is pretty much ready to go, (Their are already Meleefender builds out there using this power) though some alterations could be made to make it work a little better (Increase Density could be made a PBAoE on this archetype so the "Paladin" gets the effect for instance) Believe it or not Storm Summoning could work if you swap all the knockback for knockup/down. Cold Domination might be pretty good as well if one of it's shields was traded in for a personal shield, ect. I can't think of any way to work Empathy that would not utterly gut it's whole gimmick though. Keep in mind that you don't need to nerf the classes support powers too much in exchange for survivability as the class is already taking a hit, they are a melee class I.E. higher risk playstyle, especially for a support class. Or another path would be to take some of the defensive power sets and trey to tweak them into support power sets, but that might be too much. I had a Idea for a passive that's a bit different, It was called glory. It was a stacking buff you got every time you landed a melee attack that you lose a stack of every time you use a support power. (It also fades quickly naturally) that increases the potency of your support abilities for every stack you have (Let's say max 5 stacks). Making it where their support abilities are not as strong on base stats alone but go up to near defender level at 5 stacks. (Though glory could also give a minor defensive buff as well) Ultimately I think we can all agree the class should do about as much damage and support as a corrupter (If not just a bit more to compensate for the more dangerous playstyle) with a smidge more survivability. We don't need it to be a tank Unless of course you just want to make a tank/support that does little to no damage (Almost more like a Controller that plays like a tank) which could be fun, but I doubt that's what most people are looking for. (I mean I'd be in) One option to make it a bit easier to build is to use the dominator assault powers instead of the scrapper powers, but even I really don't want that. Also as much as I love Paladins can we call the class something more CoHy like Guardian, Enforcer, Champion, or something along those lines?