Neiska

Personally, I tend to focus more on other things than what is "best" or does most damage. Things like - Theme - A bit OCD on this, if the name, costume, powers don't all "feel right" to me, then I most likely won't like it regardless of how strong it might be. Playstyle/flow - if a build is super ultra powerful, but is "clunky" or awkward, then I likely won't enjoy it. Examples are sets like Super Strength or Titan Weapons. They are good, but not for me. I dislike having "windows" of power, but with periods of "low" or "slow." I would rather have a reliable consistent performance regardless of activity, even if it isn't cutting edge or top dps. Because I like to do different activities, on different difficulties, sometimes alone, sometimes with other people. Some people like "when the stars align" and boost performance to incredible levels, but that's just not my cup of tea. Viability - if I am pigeonholed or forced to take something like Cardio or the P2W END tool it feels like a crutch. Some sets are very rough on the END, like Dark Armor. But I dislike having obligatory/necessary tools just to make something playable. My favorite ATs - Crabber, Mastermind, Tanker. If I had to pick only one, I would go Crabber. Sure, it doesn't take first place in any category, but it's the play/feel/style that I like the most. It has pets, its tough, it can fly/be entirely ranged, and they have good team support. All things I like. Just my musings on the matter. I think people might be focusing too much on just damage or durability when comparing ATs, and when you do that some ATs are going to be dead last pretty much by default. And context matters quite a bit. - Such has having a /Cold on a Hardmode. Debuffs are pretty dang important on the most challenging content, but on speed teams a controller or debuffer may not feel like they are contributing very much when scrappers or blasters are 1 shotting everything at breakneck speed. -But on the other hand, some setups like dominators or many tankers can solo some incredible things like GMs, ITFs, etc and more. True, it may not be FAST but they "can" which to me in itself is far more impressive than what the biggest damage meta is currently. So its kind of give and take. As far as what is "best" I would say that depends on many things. Do you like to play alone or do you like to team? Do you like to go fast or do you like to take down bigger fish? And the like. Bonus: The most team I had, was an all Soldier/widow Team. Just watching the big boss get swarmed by spiderbots and blasted was absolutely funny. The odd thing? It was one of the smoothest teams I was on. Mostly we just watched the pets mob everything, while the soldiers and widows just blasted from afar. It was a few years ago but I don't think we had a single death the entire mission arc. Now some may say an all Soldier/Widow team isn't meta or optimal, and I don't disagree. But it was a lot of fun, and sometimes thinking outside the box or trying new things can lead to surprising results.

Just my opinion but overall I think the ATs are pretty well balanced, it just depends on context. Builds that are great solo often aren’t the best option for hard modes or speedy teams. Difficulty also matters here as well. At 50/+0 anything can work, what changes is “how” and how long it takes. It’s when you go beyond that does differences is “power” get more complex. Personally I like how there is a kind of “extra” difficulty for us to enjoy. And if some ATs or powers cap out before that, that doesn’t mean things are unbalanced etc. Overall- things are more balanced in CoH than some other games. There will always be a meta or kiss-your-elbow best setup for a particular situation, but nothing is 100% best at “everything” and I suspect that’s entirely by design.

Thank you, I appreciate the clarification.

I'm sorry, but did you just compare race to radiation in fictional writing? You don't think that's dropping a GRENADE here? I need a moment.

Just my own two cents here but - I think we all would agree that if CoH were a real place, it wouldn't be real for very long as real life science and cause/effect and consequences would quickly be felt, without other things like the time it takes to rebuild, both in physical terms as well as the population would make such a place un-sustainable. Even just going by the birth to death ratio as the city has a higher mortality rate than the WW2 eastern front, it simply wouldn't last long. Secondly, Radiation is but one of any number of horrifying possibilities. We have people strong enough to hit the sun into a black hole. We have alternate realities, time hopping, living sentient diseases and more. And I think many of them are "over the top" entirely on purpose to create an exciting story and so on. And I am fine with that! (except for unfinished stories, but that's an unrelated topic.) I am fine with people trying to explain and rationalize things. Some people like things to make sense! I am also fine with "meh, it's just a game/fictional setting" and so on. It's fine if someone doesn't go into every little detail. I would argue that leaving some things a mystery actually makes some things/characters better! At the end of the day, its really up to each of us to decide how far to go on our characters. Someone can break out the chemistry or astrophysics book if they like. Someone can just handwave stuff if they want. When in doubt, "A wizard did it" or "it's a Nemesis plot" always works in a pinch. Even some pretty neat characters are "the powers that be are still trying to figure it out" can be great and lead to surprising things too. So, for me both arguments hold water. There are times I googled science terms that I was unfamiliar with for inspiration and even managed to learn stuff at the same time. (I was interested in a living weapon/poison kind of character, so I was googling biological terms and definitions.) I am also fine people just wanting to sit back and have fun without every micron measured or atom accounted for. But for the people that do enjoy that, explaining the actual physics/magics/tech/whatever behind the character is part of the fun and enjoyment too. No wrong opinions on this one IMO. Long as people have fun and enjoy their personal creations. 😁

Well, going by the Heroes Unlimited Palladium (a tabletop RPG) one of the neat things is they go into more than just combat features for powers, they also elaborate on things like perks, side uses, and quality of life things. Some of the quality-of-life side bonuses are pretty neat! Here are some examples for Control Radiation - Use yourself as a radiation damper - you can't stop a nuclear explosion, but you can make a contaminated area safe for others by soaking up the lingering radiation in an area. Detect radioactive elements - you can sense the presence of radioactive elements and isotopes, such as uranium, plutonium, radium, thorium, polonium, etc. Generate light/glow - you can cause your body to glow and illuminate an area. X-ray vision - you have X-ray vision, able to see through most walls and substances, stopped by lead and lead alloys. Discharge Nuclear Fire from limbs - you can ignite materials with a toxic fire. Generate Heat - you can emit heat as high as 2000 degrees and have can roughly guess at a materials melting point. Some materials have a melting point beyond the heat you are able to generate, such as Titanium, Chromium, Tungsten, and Vanadium. It does go on to mention that use of this power may endanger innocent bystanders, and that you are constantly emitting a small but potentially dangerous amount of radiation that over time can cause harm. You can consciously suppress it, but doing so cuts the number of attacks and bonuses you have by half. Then they can also use Enviromental Body Armor and radiation suits to protect others. So, what you could do, is have the character always wear an Armored Radiation Suit, with "ports" or controlled releases to focus the radiation? Kind of how Cyclops from X-men does with his Visor? Or you could also just say that your character is a Radioactive Sponge whose presence simply soaks up the radiation from their powers and "recycles" it to continue to fuel their abilities. Just a few thoughts.

I choose to believe it’s Mad Max looking for Master and Blaster.

Personally I’d recommend Bio/savage. Boosts both offense and sustain, END friendly, Bio loves recharge which savage boosts as well, so it has both synergy and theme to boot.

Why not both? 3 accounts here. Sometimes I 3 box solo, sometimes I play 1 with a team. Sometimes I’ll be teamed up on my main, and 2 box afk farm with the other two. I think of it as efficient use of my leisure time.

Welcome home, beers in the fridge, watch out for Snarky’s.

Thank you, I'll have a look. I don't intend on running both fly and group fly, I pretty much intend on using Hover pretty much all the time, Fly as a Travel Power, and Group fly when on maps that can support it (when solo, I don't use group fly on teams unless the mission calls for it.) But your adjustments does look a lot better, especially with the END is concerned too. And this isn't bringing up things like I wont have to use Elusive ALL the time either, only some enemies have -fly things. Still, I like to be prepared.

Thank you all for the feedback, I did make the suggested tweaks. @StrikerFox - I moved the LotG and swapped in Cloud Senses as suggested, moved the PM unique to the drone, and moved the steadfast as suggested. Also swapped out Shadowe Fall for a +DEF set. Originally, I did have murky toggle, but the END is incredibly intense/demanding, with both Murky or Charged Armor with Elusive on, my END rec is 3.04, and my use is 3/s, which means my recovery is a whopping .04 a second. XD That is EXTREMELY tight, I am not even sure how I would use powers when its that tight. Granted that is with every toggle on, which I don't expect to have all the time. But still, I strongly dislike having to constantly pop blues to make a build work or flow, because you can and will run out of them. My plan is to use the p2w Serum and Ageless to help, but I dislike relying 100% on those for a build to work. But taking Charged armor does cap out the S/L Resistance which is awesome, but I am not sure I can fit all that END use in? I am not sure what you mean by Howling Twilight/Dark Pit shenanigans, is there some kind of synergy with those? I am guessing Disorient stacking? @tidge - I did move a slot to Dark Servant and put in an Endoplasm. I did drop Kismet, but I do like running full tactics, as it feels its a big help on +4/8 content to help pats constantly land their attacks. Not "always" but I have found it noticeable, and the 6 slot DEF bonus is a nice perk. @Maelwys - I really like how you slotted your pets, so I copied them. (The later version with maxed Tactics). I didn't "plan" on going for a lot of recharge, I like to play defensively (odd with /Dark I know) and tend to like to build for high DEF and RES. At the moment I have 2 power slots (Epic Pools) that are able to be moved around - 1. I can take Charged Armor + Haste (or something else) to cap S/L/Energy RES, but doing so will make my END almost non-existant (with all toggles on anyway) 2. I can also take as suggested above and take Murky and Dark Pit, which will boost my Fire, Cold, and soft cap my Energy and Negative, and have the mentioned Howling Twilight/Dark Pit, but I am not sure how strong that would be, especially with Dark Pit having minimal slotting. (I don't think I ever really used Dark Pit? Is Disorient "that" good?) 3. If I could I'd take something to help with the END issue, and I have checked everything and I think the only power option I noticed was Soul Consumption. But even with it max slotted for END, it seems "blah" at best and sure as heck doesn't look good in Mids. But in order to fit it in, I would have to drop something. (Likely Weave as its 5% DEF but I am packing so much -tohit that I don't think it would be that critical, and I am not in dire need of +recharge either.) The other option is to change my Alpha Incarnate from Muscled to Cardio, to save on both my own END as well as my pets END. But I have never NOT had Muscled with a MM, I just kind of always assumed that Muscled was the #1 Must have for MMs since it applies to pets. Anyway, thanks for the update, added another snip and updated build file. I "think" I got everything. At the moment? I am leaning toward option 3 - Drop Weave (still have perma Dark Servant and a 34 second cooldown on Tar Pit, so I "can" stack two of them for a short time.), and still have Murky, Dark Pit, and Soul Consumption for "some" kind of END tool, even if it kind of stinks. Darktech Robot-Dark MM mk 3 - updated.mbd

Hey Forums, So, here is an updated build I just put together. I haven't really tried pushing with Robots since the update, so not 100% sure on all the slotting changes, like which ones need KB - KD, and so on. Far as the build goes, I was trying to focus on DEF and decent resists, while still keeping all the /Dark goodness. For some reason, MIDs doesn't show the T2 Bubble shield on my DEF, but I checked in-game and it was 17%, which puts all my DEF around 43 or so. I think this isn't too bad, my main concern is how tight the END is. My plan to deal with that is to use the P2W Serums and Ageless. For incarnates, I intend on going Musculature Alpha, Ageless Destiny, Void Judgement (for the -50% Damage 30s debuff), Lore is undecided yet. For Interface I am actually considering on trying Spectral Core, for the 25% immobilize/negative energy. Normally, I would go reactive/degen, but I have yet to actually try Spectral and Immobilize is pretty important for Robot MMs. I will have Tar Pit and Web Grenade, but if the pets can proc it then its possible they might be immobilize things all over all by themselves, which would be nice. I have no idea if that's how it works, but might be worth considering. Anyway, here's the build and snip of build values. Feedback is welcome, others have more experience with the new Robots and Dark than I do. Thanks bunches Darktech Robot-Dark MM mk 2.mbd

I have both a Bio/Energy Melee and Bio/Fire Tanker. Both are fantastic. The EM hits SO hard (for a tanker). And the Fire has both Combust and Fire Sword Circle, which means its great at both ST and AoE damage. Stuff just MELTS. Another hidden tanker gem is a Bio/Katana, because Katana has Divine Avalanche, which is a 15% melee DEF buff which is maintained with your normal attack chain. Titan Weapons has something similar, but IMO Titan Weapons is a bit clunky and awkward. Anyway with this DEF buff and with the Tanker ATO "double res dipping" its fairly easy to get higher RES numbers. The thing about Bio is, is until you have enough recharge it can be a bit iffy. Bio armor doesn't super boost RES or DEF like other sets, it takes a swiss army knife approach. But it is fantastic for both Self healing sustain as well as END. Personally I aim for 50% uptime on Parasite Aura (thats your super buff that turns you into wolverine), and use Carapace as a buffer when Parasite Aura is recharging. I don't slot DNA Siphon for healing at all, instead I slot it for END recovery. I do strongly urge you to take Sorcery with Bio as well, as Rune of Protection fits quite nicely with the build and "juggling super buffs" playstyle, and not only boosts resists across the board but status protection as well, which is something Bio Armor lacks. Anyway with bio, I recommend focusing on Recharge until you have "enough", and then focus on getting RES numbers up. I have had a few Shield Tankers as well. Shield turns you into a wrecking ball and has fantastic -DEF Debuff protection built in, making it great for harder content. If you go Shield, I would try to pair it with either something like Dark Melee/Rad Armor for some self-healing. (My Shield/Dark tanker feels pretty much immortal. She just keeps going, and going, and going, and going, pretty much forever.) or you can also pair it with Savage Melee for "another" charge ability, and Savage Melee is actually one of the top performers on tankers too. (For extra lols/funsies you can even take Leap Attack from Jumping for "another" self-teleporting ability to juggle with the other two. It really feels like you are a wrecking ball/juggernaut just bouncing all over the place, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.) Hope this helps!

I have a necro/nature that’s up close and personal, and does quite well.

The in game numbers on Savage can deceptive. Sure they are small but there’s a steady stream of them, and iirc it’s in the top 5 for pylon times. Bio/EM is my main tank, it hits fantastically hard. Fire is definitely also quite good and well balanced. Also in the top times.

Nice to see you back from Vacation @Snarky!

@tidgeis correct about what I meant. Not all mm primaries have powers you can put the pet uni’s into. It would have been great if you could do it for Maintenance Drone, as an example. Would go a long way to put all the MMs on equal footing, not in respect to other ATs but in respect to each other. Most of the updates were great, I only disliked the robot one for reasons previously mentioned, and I feel bad for Beasts entirely. They just flat out got left in the dust.

Respectfully agree to disagree. The Drone is nice, but I don't care much for the rest. The Assault bot doesn't as good as it was before, but the T1 and T2's were better. But my main complaint isn't the damage. People do a lot with less. And I get why they moved the -regen, they wanted to make Robot MMs both "smoother" in damage spread out among pets so it wasn't all in the T3, and to try and encourage MM personal attacks with added effects, be it buffs or debuffs. But having all your damage in your T3 wasn't entirely bad either, it made the other pets less mandatory to use. You could just use your T3 on teams and it wouldn't affect your damage as much. But now? You kind of have to use all the pets in every situation. My issue with the current bots is no matter what AT, build, or powers taken, is that each build has the same amount of powers, and the same amount of slots. And some of the MM sets, like Robots, Necro, etc already are pretty slot-starved with all the pet aura IOs and the like, plus the pet slots, plus the buff slots, plus whatever else you want to fit in from Epic pools yadda yadda. IMO either all pet sets should have mule powers, like Gang War/Hell On Earth, or none of them should and force them all to squeeze it in somewhere. Even now with the changes, I never see Thug or Demon MMs use their personal attacks very much. The effects are just too small for the slots required to make it worth using. And, depending on secondary, you often have much better options. The other irony is the primaries that could use the slots the most, are the ones without mule powers. In short - its a further slot tax, as if MMs weren't already kind of playing at a handicap as it was, as far as damage/end cost for powers are concerned. It just feels like their only concern was damage, and nothing else. And I think we all would agree that is only one small part of the puzzle. So IMO, damage is "smoother", but not "better", and everything else such as moving inherent debuffs around and making someone have to spend slots/power picks to use them "worse." Some people like it. And that's fine. Personally, I hate it, and have pretty much shelved all my Robot MMs, not just the mutibox ones. Still have other MM tricks I keep entirely to myself, one of those "if you know you know" things because I expect if I shared those tidbits they would be on the chopping block next.

Also works for multiple Demon MMs as well, their resist buffs all stack with each other. But the Thug toggles doesn't affect the MM themselves, only other thug MM pets. I do believe it's the same with Demons resist buffs.

3 boxing robots is still possible, but not as good as before. Besides having to more focus on personal attacks, the fire patch doesn’t seem to do as much damage as before. My robot AE clear times take almost 4 minutes longer than it took before the revamp. Nowdays if I 3 box MMs, I box 3 demon MMs. It takes almost the same amount of time, and it’s far easier with far tougher pets. I can go full AFK in some cases. So long as my pets stay in heal and buff range, I’m golden. In my opinion the robot change was all around bad if you multibox, and I don’t really think they shine as a stand alone anymore either, but let’s not get into all that. As far as secondaries go, well you really can make any 3 work. I recommend Time, Electric, Forcefield for ease of play, Kinetics for big damage boost etc. Cant speak about Marine, have yet to try it.

Boy oh boy, this topic can only go to great places. I better get my popcorn!🍿 If it bothers you that much, you can always just quit the team. Usually the best option if other people play in a way you don’t like, vs them trying to make you play it their way or you making them play it yours.

I hope you have an energizer bunny theme!

What's stopping you from self-imposing it via honor system? Make a character, you die, delete everything and start over. You could even keep a log in the forums for people who might be interested in a hardcore ironman start to finish. I bet it would be a good read.

No I haven't, that was on my todo list before I moved onto other things. But provoke/placate were both on the list, as well as look at paetron pools for possible immobilize/hold abilities to browse too. I still have my widows, just haven't played them in awhile. But when I did i went for a "money is no object" build. Shes still one of my most expensive builds i think. Mostly just wanted to see what could be done and how far you can push it, just for funsies.