Neiska

I would argue that for the majority of 95% or so of content, "nobody" is "needed." You can do pretty much any activity with any AT makeup. You don't NEED a tank, you don't NEED controllers, you don't NEED healing, and so on. And I think they did an overall good job balancing things. If you have a lot of Tanks/Brutes, you don't really need healers. If you have a lot of Controllers, you don't really need tankers. If you have full on DPS, you don't really need anyone. If you have full MM group, you don't really need anyone. If you have a full SoA/Widow group, you don't really need anyone. I have never been on one, but I suspect if you had all Warshades/Peacebringers, you definitely don't need anyone. (And that might actually be a blast to play, come to think of it.) One of the things I like the most about this game is that you don't really need the MMO party tri-fecta of Tank/Healer/DPS. You can go all Tank, or all DPS, or all Control, heck, you can even go all Support or Healer and accomplish 95% of the game. The only real difference is how long it will take and how many people may die in the process.

Never played that, but I remember a lot of the Disney games for all their silliness were actually quite difficult.

The oldschool Castlevania's. Super Ghosts n Goblins. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Zombies ate my Neighbors. Adventure of Link. And of course, Battletoads.

Shelving my tankers for the time being unless a friend needs one for some reason. Only one I am keeping on the roster at the moment is my Bio/EM Tanker. Looking at possibly a Spines/Bio Scrapper or a Brute. Most of the time I don't need a tankers durability, and I am not going play solo and be penalized for having such.

Last time I checked the Demons +RES buff stacks. The robots bubble applies once per MM I think too. Think that's it though. I know you no longer get double bubble from 1 robot MM but they should still stack with different MMs.

Personally, I rate this game on the easier side of things. Other games like Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Darkest Dungeon, etc can be much more difficult. Most of the hardest things in this game isn't really hard, or unfair, it's just knowing the fight. (dodge the purples). That or the fights just take a lloonngg time. Now, to be fair, the same could be said of those other games. People have beaten Dark Souls using nothing but mudpies and not taking a single hit. But I would argue the "Ceiling" to get to that point is much higher in those games than this one. But at the end, it isn't a contest or race. And if you want a harder challenge, you have that option here. You don't HAVE to optimize. You can increase the difficulty. You can take different powers. If you want a challenge, you can give it to yourself. But if you want it easier, well, that isn't really an option. Personally, I try to view +2 as the "normal." Any build can do stuff on +0 or -1, pretty much any AT can do +2. +4 is where you have to know what you are doing, and to do harder content you have to plan ahead. So its easier for me to see +3, +4 and beyond as a kind of built in hard mode or difficulty (+). Short version - I say this game is on the easier side of things. And that's not a bad thing. Its nice to have a game where you have the option to go full chill mode and relax, as well as push the envelope if you want to. Not all games have such options in the same game.

Sometimes my favorite things to do are just goof off and do silly things. -Swoop down as a Full 50+4 incarnate demigod to save that hot dog vendors tips from some level 2 never-do-wells. -Fly around with a Knockback power and try to blow npcs off of buildings. -Use a -fly power to try and make enemies fall. -Hop a top some random car and see where it goes. (Most of the time they just drive in circles.) Honestly Wish there was a full-on mission (or even a mini story) where you are on a Train or something with enemies attacking it from the sky and you have to defend it. -I might see some hero out in the world and just buff them to the gills as much as I can without explanation. -Fight some giant monster. -Spend hours (and I mean hours) in the costume editor. I might have 100+ costumes that will never see the light of day. -Muck around with the power customization options. -Ski Slope! Honestly, wish we had more stuff like this. Like an Asteroid-hopping game where you are in an area with flying disabled and jump from asteroid to asteroid. Or a swimming one with goals and jumps and obstacles. -Once for funsies made a scavenger hunt with friends. Each of us made a list of 3 things we had to locate in the open-world game. Some of them were downright mean. On a side note, I do kind of wish there were more "down to earth" kind of missions. Not everything has to be some grand epic struggle to save the world from a global threat. Why not stuff like breaking up a bar fight in a super hero bar, finding a lost puppy, so on.

I would actually enforce the "no adult content, politics, harassment, etc etc" of the user agreement, with paying special attention to Raid channel.

No, it's more one group of things consistently getting nerfed while the other is either outright ignored or even encouraged and rewarded.

I don't play the meta, but I do try to get the most out of what powersets I choose. But some of them I make just because I enjoy them. Rarely do I copy other peoples builds, mostly I look at them for ideas or inspiration, and then put my own spin on things. I am more concerned with enjoyment, something that flows well (not END starved), and is consistent. Nerfing dps durability? Totally fine with that. Tanker damage nerf? Would be fine with it, if tankers got something else in return. We didn't. Axe nerf? Duno. Never tried it. Farming? Ironically, it's not the farmers who are the absurdly wealthy folks - its the people who A. Play their 50s for a long time because there is very LITTLE upkeep in this game to speak of. So once your 50 is done, you incur virtually zero cost, and anything you get is a net gain. And people who B. Play stock market simulator on the AH. The richest people I know are like, level 10. They don't do missions. They hang out in their chosen spots and play the market. Thats their main draw to the game. Not my thing mind you, but for some that's their thrill. Sure, balancing touches every aspect. Bbbuuttt... it certainly seems at one section of the game... ...and hardly ever others. Some ATs/Powers have yet to get touched, at all. And others are all over the place. And I don't believe for a moment that everyone would agree such things are "balanced." If you ask me, they focus on what's popular, or the best. If somethings the best, its automatically presumed to be over-tuned and needs nerfing. While the stuff at the bottom has been at the bottom for awhile now, and at this point I kinda doubt its gonna change anytime soon.

I am split about 50/50 on the changes that I like or dislike. But either way one thing I will give them absolute credit for is the dedication to devote free time to the game that by all rights should be long gone. Younger games are already on life support, so I will thank them for that. Likes - All the cosmetics, new missions, new side content, quality of life improvements. Community involvement. Lore and Story. Dislikes - The balance changes, most of which I tend to disagree with. Complete overhaul of some powers to the point they are similar to their originals in name only. Bias in receiving feedback. (There may not be any bias, but it certainly seems that way. One crowd certainly seems to always get what they want and anyone who naysays or disagrees is left by the wayside.) The full-on support/encouragement/rewards/new shiny for team play while leaving people who prefer to solo or mainly play alone very little new content. Even punishing it in some ways such as the heavy-handed AE nerf. Overall, happy the game is alive and well. But I find myself liking the game less the more they change, add, or "fix." All my favorite builds I loved when HC first came back don't even play the same at all anymore.

You are entitled to your opinion. Getting 45 DEF isn't the catch all be all. That isn't even the most mathematically beneficial according to my napkin math. The most immediate and most effective form of defense is flying. Why? Simply because most enemies don't have full ranged attack chains, most only have 1 or 2 attacks. So that means right out the gate you are facing up to 1/2 to 3/4th less attacks against most enemies, before any dice is even rolled. But lets play hypothetical how I rip apart +4 stuff solo on my corruptor - Oh no. I'm in a fight. I better start flying. (Immediately face far fewer attacks.) Oh no I'm under attack. (Power Boost + Farsight, I'm now over defense cap) Oh no, my DEF buff is wearing off. (Pop Chrono Shift) Oh no, I am under CC. (Pop RoP) Oh no, I am getting debuffed. (Pop Ageless) This isn't even popping a single inspiration. Or any P2W. Or any accolades. I am essentially immortal or at least extremely tough against most enemies, comparatively as tough as my tanker would be. The tanker is far more durable overall, but that is in a sense moot since the corruptor is as tough as required. So if I am comparatively tough "enough" but I do far far more damage, then where's this outcry for "tankers do too much damage" vs "squishy aren't squishy" originating from? First off, a biillion dollar build no way entitles you to clear anything on any AT. Secondly, I would argue playing around a single powers cooldown is hardly "strategic" anymore than rock-paper-scissors is. And any AT can be built "tough enough" for even the most difficult solo activities. Either combining buffs with debuffs, p2w, incarnates, etc etc. But not every AT can be built to do enough dps for any solo activity. At least unless you want to go afk for an hour with a power on autocast. See above comment. It takes more than DEF softcap, but what's escaping you is my point that hitting DEF softcap, and fairly good resistances without having to use other tools/cooldowns shouldn't even be an option on full hog DPS ATs. In a sense, you are aurging that - Its totally 100% okay for DPS ATs can boost their survivability. But if Tankers/Brutes/survive builds want to boost their damage, that requires an immediate nerf. No, Brutes are simply the fastest. Tankers are simply the easiest, as well as the cheapest. But you can farm with nearly any AT, I have done it with SoA, Warshade, even triple boxed MMs that could clear maps in 3 minutes. (That has since been nerfed.) Even farmed with Widows and Controllers. It also matters if you are talking active farming vs afk farming. If you are AFK farming, than survivability is crucial, since you are only using one autocast attack AoE power. If you are actively playing, that isn't as make-or-break, since you can use other powers as well. And I would argue that it's a moot point, since now we are talking about balancing Tanker/Brute DPS in all activities (groups, solo, hardmode, chill radio teams, etc) only because of what some single builds can do? Well, if that's the argument then lets nerf fly and -fly protection and Farsight/Power Boost right now since those are so strong defensively. RoP as well. Lets make Incarnate cooldowns longer or have a debuff built in so teams can't juggle them for constant coverage. (AKA a "not affected by incarnate buff" timer when it wears off.) I mean I have a whole list of things that should be immediately nerfed if we are going to stomp entire ATs because of what some builds are capable of under some situations. But call it a hunch that nobody wants to have that kind of conversation. Again, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But I doubt we are going to agree on this. And from my chair it sure seems like some are allowed to "have their cake and eat it too" while others are constantly changed/tweaked/nerfed, and I am not convinced it's not for any kind of biased reason.

What I meant was balancing the armor sets across different ATs. I mean most DPS take DEF sets since they have lower res caps for example. A scrapper or stalker can take Shield for example and be dang near as good as a Tanker, while doing much more DPS. I mean, if Tankers shouldn't be able to do meaningful damage, then DPS shouldn't be so durable, right? What's good for one, is good for the other, right? I mean, if a squishy can just zoom into a full spawn on +4/8 without fear and just nuke them all down with zero caution, I would argue they are too durable. The glass cannons in this game are not glass cannon at all, whatsoever. If a tanker has 50% of the damage they do, then they should have 50% of the durability? (Just an example for context, not meant to be a literal comparison.) For all the rebalancing over the years focused pretty much entirely around DPS, not once did they go "maybe the squishes aren't squishy enough." If you can do a hardmode with nothing but corruptors, etc, I would argue that might need rebalancing more than say, oh, I dunno, Plant Control? I mean, if you want to get right down to it, people can go full hog DPS as much as they like and just take turns popping barrier and clear 90% of the harder content anyway. Tankers and Brutes not even needed at all. There are tools like Rune of Protection, Barrier, etc to make squishies just as tough as tankers, but there isn't much those tankers can do to boost their damage. Even if their powerset has a buildup, that lasts for a few moments while the defensive stuff lasts quite awhile. Long enough you can juggle them with small windows of squishy-ness. I am all for "play your way" and "everything should be viable." But from where I sit they definitely are playing favorites.

I leveled 3 Plant to max level with +3 Incarnates, and personally I wasn't impressed. Sure it was neat and fun, but IMO other things were wildly over tuned. Soloing with it was safe, but also very slow, painfully slow. I could have a brute use an aoe on auto and clear the same content faster, and soloing +4 things was especially a slog. Sure I could lock stuff down, but it took so long to kill things. Especially since Plant was one of the few Controller sets that stood out on teams, especially fast moving ones. Now? Not so much. Honestly it feels as if any powerset or power is wildly popular, it's what gets attention (good or bad.) I am genuinely curious as to what difficulty and what activity they use to base changes on. It certainly isn't +0, nor is it +4. While no controller expert (usually play Tankers, MMs, and SoA's), this most definitely felt like a "NO FUN ALLOWED" change.

Personally, I would prefer if DPS wasn't the only metric that seems to be considered when balancing things which seems to be the case. In a game with so many ATs, Powersets, Combat mechanics, Playstyles, Enemies, Mission Type, Difficulty Level, etc etc etc, DPS is only one small piece of the pie and a great many other things seem overlooked or neglected entirely. When was the last time say, +RES buffs among powersets were balanced? +DEF Buffs among powersets? So on and so forth.

Have to respectfully disagree here... I have made some VERY durable Crabbers, 45% DEF, 85% RES, flying, full ranged attacks, etc etc etc... not that many people build them that way, but its certainly possible. Was she killing things quickly? Heck no. But there were times when she was the most durable one on the team, including the brute/tanker. I have also had MMs that could survive things that that would wreck some of my tankers too. Now is that normal, standard, or typical? Heck no. But to say that its impossible to reach tanker-levels of durability with any other AT is just plain incorrect. I do hasten to add that your general point - that "most" don't get that tough is correct. But to say that nobody can or does isn't correct. Heck, I have seen a Shield Scrapper Tank Recluse before.

I've found that if you just lower it to +3/8 then most changes are largely rendered moot. Just don't make as much per map, but my builds are just as effective. Honestly that's my biggest tip. They are making it too much of a slog to farm +4/8 to be worth the time. I clear more maps and make more money at +3 in an hour of farming than +4.

While I don't disagree, this means that some powersets will rarely be seen or used on any AT. I would rather have a few powers be too strong than some not be strong enough. Just as certain niche builds or situations aren't reasons to nerf an entire AT. People are pointing to the Tankers damage, when on teams, a tankers damage doesn't really compare/matter as much. This change affects solo play more than it does team play, IMO. So, in a way, it feels as if they are kind of nerfing solo tanking because of what damage a tanker can do when compared to other ATs. But nobody ever compares other things like durability among the ATs in order to make changes/edits. Its only damage that gets fiddled with. Never DEF, Res caps, etc. For the damage that some ATs can do, they are far too tough IMO. But that's not a conversation anyone wants to have apparently.

Know what? Fair. My main concern is that changes affect different powersets differently. And that the top performing sets aren't as impacted as the lower performing sets. Off the top of my head, this affects Super Strength, Fire Melee and Spines more than say, Energy or Kinetic Melee? And some, like a Spines Tanker, well, their AoE is really their only selling point. They are rather subpar for anything else but AoE. The only thing that really made spines good on a tanker in the first place, was the increased targets. With this change? I expect spines to drop to close to the bottom. I think this change is heavy-handed in reference to how it applies to all tanker powers, when not all tanker powers are OP currently. If they had a change that mainly focused on the problem sets, I wouldn't be so concerned. But that isn't the case.

This you? I kid I kid, in seriousness thank you for your service.

Having played Masterminds, Tankers, Corruptors, SoA's, etc, several of which beyond 300+ vet levels, I think I have a pretty good grasp about the difference in time needed to clear the same content among different ATs and builds. Your personal experience may be different, but that is your mere personal experience. Just as my DPS finishing much faster than my tankers is mine. Neither of our personal experiences over-ride each others. No, I'm really not. And blasters having two full sets of attacks is only part of it. If you have enough recharge, depending on the power set, you might not even use the other set all that often. And, again, no, I'm not, as DEF caps are only one small part of what makes a characters durability. Resistances, Hitpoints, resists to debuffs, etc etc all play a part. If all it took to do everything was reach 45% def, well most powers wouldn't even be needed and we could all call it a day. And blasters are hardly the only DPS in play here. Scrappers, Stalkers, Corruptors, Widows, can all effectively lap tankers, many of which can be close to a tankers durability. Scrappers and Stalkers both "tanking" are a thing. Not a common thing mind you, but its "possible" nonetheless. /Shield in particular. You are downplaying the differences not only in time, but neglecting to consider the different activities here. I mean if its a race, stalkers beat everybody on some missions. To put it into perspective, if some stalkers or scrappers can go toe to toe with Recluse, then why isn't there some huge outcry to nerf that? If you can put together an entire team of corruptors and just take turns popping ageless/barrier and absolutely destroy even hard modes without tankers/brutes at all, then what's the point? Its certainly not for any sake of balance or fair play. What I suspect is more likely in play is that someone clever took a design and used it in a way that wasn't intended or thought of, and instead of addressing the particular case they "fix" the entire AT itself, even if it severely punishes builds that "don't" do that. I mean, what are Tanker Secondaries that are already behind going to do? Just fall even further behind. To further simplify it - they are selectively addressing certain things that can be seen as broken, or too powerful, and all but ignoring or even encouraging others. Of all the broken things in this game, I wouldn't have even put tanker AoE in the top 10. Teams? Largely moot since any DPS will obliterate entire spawns of enemies even before that supposedly concerning tanker AoE comes into play. Any DPS can blow their BU, get a good chance at a proc, pop their T9, and wipe out 90% of the spawn in less than 10 seconds. And somehow, a tanker being able to hit more than other melee is suddenly so unfair? I mean, you can make a Scrapper tough enough to rip through +4/8 content in much less time than a Tanker could, and if both survive as easily then the tankers superior durability is largely moot, where the scrappers damage is not. Kind of like how they came down hard on spines/fire brutes, just because there were so many of them at one time. Now? I hardly see any at all. And some sweeping changes already have made a lot of people upset. And I don't think that is really a high priority for them at this point. You and I will likely disagree on this. And that's okay. But just as you are free to support it and certain playstyles, others are certainly free to not support them. And I am getting rather tired of DPS being the only measuring stick to end-all-be-all and comparing one specific AT to another as the only metric, and using the most extreme builds as justification to nerf the entire AT itself which affects the powers that AT has unequally. (The weak stuff just gets weaker when they try to make the strong stuff normal.) PS - the point of "if they change that, people will leave" really isn't justifiable, as it was used for several other things such as the AE changes, and they still happened. I honestly doubt they are overly concerned if they make a change and people get upset about it at this point. I've certainly never seen any of them specifically address such an issue. Some people will keep getting hosed, while others get to keep their cake and eat it too.

And to that I say is part of the problem. Not that people feel that way, that its now seen as a "feature" rather than something that arguably should be corrected. If we are going to discuss over the pretense of balance, how are Glass Cannons with enough defenses to obliterate hardest difficulties balanced to the opposite end of the spectrum where it takes a tanker 3-5x longer to do the same thing? If both can be equally survivable, and the tanker has excess, why is not the excess DPS if we want to call it that, reigned in as well? My theory? It isn't about balance. It's about pushing the meta to "gotta go fast." Things barely hit hard enough to even warrant a tanker, unless you are on hard mode. A DPS can just enter a mission with a tray full of purples, pop one, and just go to town, while the Tanker does not have the same option. Popping a Red will not make a Tankers dps on par with the DPS, not even close.

Without opening a whole can of worms that is the Farming/AE topic, all I will say about it is that the big brains in the farming community have already figured out how to farm with each AT. And that most of us no longer share or report tricks/op/broken things we find, mostly due to the heavy handed-ness of whoever makes decisions. It's very much a "if you know then you know" sort of situation now. Luckily my favorite "broken things" remain to this very day. So I do get to enjoy those gems in light of what I consider over-correction/nerfing.

1. I wish I shared your confidence. Each time I thought "no way they are really going to do that" I was disappointed. 2. Challenge accepted. Maybe if I post farming guides on builds/ATs that I don't like, they will get hit with the nerfbat too.

While I agree with your points, I do want to show perhaps another side of the coin so to speak. Not making the case that this IS the situation, only what might become the situation. In another game (For those wondering its ESO), tankers are effectively just big blocks of hitpoints that buff their party, and debuff the enemies. Their damage is inconsequential. They do literally minor damage compared to everyone else's. Tankers are only needed for multi-party targets. The DPS do so much damage, that even 5 man team bosses are completely obliterated. So what ends up happening is people cue for tanks who are not tanks at all, just to run the mission and finish as fast as possible. The biggest downside to the whole situation is that actual raid level tanks are few and far between, not from just experience and practice, but from desire. In that game it SUCKS to solo tank, even to solo quest because the damage is so terrible. Now I am not saying this is the case for CoH, only that kind of philosophy is what lead to that games situation. They made tanks completely irrelevant aside from being able to take hits, and aggro. So much to the point that very few people have any desire to play them. Sure, tankers should be tough! But they should be able to solo and do other things too and not take 10 years to do it. And the way things are going, it wouldn't surprise me in the last if this is how things turn out. Looking over all the changes since HC got popular, it certainly seems the devs have a specific design in mind. (Only some builds/sets/ATs are allowed to be overpowered.)