Sir Myshkin

Fruit doesn't belong on Pizza! *Grabs popcorn and waits for the inevitable debate this statement will cause.*

With the alteration to Poison and Cold, is there expectation that Fade (from Controller Dark Miasma) will get adjusted so that it no longer modifies its Resistance component based on +Damage boosts? That doesn't look like a nerf, but a bug correction. Drain Psyche has a -Regen (that's a "-" minus) component it hits effected targets with, they stopped that from being modifiable, which it shouldn't be.

Have you tried running FU > Focus > Slash > Shockwave, with Shockwave carrying the alt -Res proc?

I jumped on to Test (getting a lot of mileage on that server today) to check on this. Currently both the Tanker Bruising effect on the T1 ability, and both the Achilles and the Fury proc are both scaled based on level to the target. I punched a level 46, got -31%, punched a level 53, got -13%. Of course, not a convenient way for me to have another Tank punch something to see what happens to the proc after the fact cause... that's a bit trickier to set up.

What Bopper said, but also ... Why Stealth/Grant Invis? When you toggle Stealth on it adds an over-inflated (out of combat) value that isn't true to the in-combat value (about half), so it's over-inflated. If you really want extra stealth, just drop the Stealth IO in Sprint and toggle it. Oh, and that Status Resistance IO you have plugged in, get rid of it. Honestly, 7% status resistance is nothing, protection is more important, use that slot somewhere else.

As others specifically pointed out, besides myself, these powers were not working in past tests. When someone comes forward claiming other wise, we are going to ask for verification, which you demonstrated, and thus lead me to go out and actually do more significant testing besides just "one or two" attempts. The reason no one was utilizing procs in the Rain powers, is because they didn't have value, so please don't let that get over-inflated. Also, worth mentioning cause after the second page, in how it read, this isn't a bunch of us ganging up on you. Well, I can only speak for myself I guess on that front, but I would make the assumption that no one else has that intention. It did almost look as such given how fast so many people came in to say "That's not how that works." But please keep in mind that you are the first person to come back saying something that definitively didn't work was suddenly working again, and [we] (collectively) wanted to verify that. My original statement still stands that your build has holes, and can perform better, and you should still review what changes can be made holistically. I went and verified what impact has changed in the Rain effects, and even with the fact that they are now giving proc feedback of significance, they're not performing at a level that warrants 100% dedication. As @Coyote was trying to point out, even in the realm of "yes they do" those powers are still not creating such an imbalance that they're worthy of saying "I farm with this." I couldn't clear a simple level 42/43 spawn of Council, Malta, or Rikti with even two applications of Freezing Rain (the one power out of the allotment doing the most work). When I stacked Ice Storm (for reasons of testing Rains), I still couldn't kill off the spawn outside of a lucky repeated proc hit on a minion level mob. Stacking triggers from multiple powers, now that's where you're getting to the ability of clearing things, but it isn't coming from just one or two of those powers, and your mass AoE immobilize is doing a lot of lifting in itself by just keeping things in your patches. A baseline proc doing 71pts of damage will need to apply on the same minion at least 5 times, 4 if we account for FR and AoE Immob having their own damage components in a single application. Now I'm looking specifically at level 50, minion health does change based on level. That out of the way, I went and collected a wider sample set of an hours worth of dropping Freezing Rain with Ice Storm and Blizzard splashed in between cooldowns as I ran through the RWZ. I did test on both a Corruptor and a Controller to make sure we weren't looking at a variance between Controller version or Corruptor version of Freezing Rain. Since the file for it is rather long (thank you, rain effects), I can't/won't drop it into a Spoiler field, and just attach it instead. What came about from it is that, yes, it looks like something has changed in how the abilities are reporting because up to (at least August 19th, when I had tested Earthquake as well), they were not reporting back with procs. Now there is an initial trigger at launch of the ability, and then a chance every following 10/s interval. It would appear the trigger at launch is the greatest opportunity, and there are subsequent follow-up triggers, but they appear far less in volume. I stuck to targeting spawns with at least 7 mobs, eventually finding a spot in the SW corner of RWZ that had Council packs of 10-12 more consistently, and even some 16. On average, in a spawn grouping of those sizes, I only ever saw a max of 3 additional procs after the initial fire of the ability. Ice Storm and Blizzard are also now actively reporting back proc damage just as Freezing Rain, although it also appears these are sticking to mostly front-loaded initial chance, with very slim returns at the 10/s interval. Harder to quantify on Blizzard as that ability does a considerable amount more damage and kills off the minions rather quickly, lowering my chances to trigger on total mobs in the spawn. There's also the fact that FR can take a ton more proc options, thus increasing its potential to trigger something just by having a larger pool of dice to roll. Excluding Earthquake, the rest of Earth Control wasn't in contention and was known to be working as intended, the mass of the debate was specifically focused on Freezing Rain. Technically what I'd tested a month ago with Earthquake, it too wasn't reporting back a significant value, but even with just the FF+Rech, that power was wroth taking anyway, quicksand... in my opinion, less so (even with a proc in it) as it doesn't significantly contribute to Earth, let alone Earth/Storm. It is relevant to note that just because you noticed two specific hits from a proc, looking at the entirety of spawn the power gets dropped on is more important. Getting one proc at drop, and one proc later on at the 10/s interval, on just one or two specific mobs isn't great when the power gets dropped on a spawn of 10+. For there to be significant value, it needs to have a greater average performance than just "once on one thing, or twice on one thing, or once each on two things." It needs to be "three times (or more) twice, on three things (or more)." Freezing Rain can take four damage procs, which is four rolls on X targets, with two roll chances. If all we ever got back were two successful hits, that's not a great return. Luckily it isn't that abysmal in reality, and does about 4-5 on initial hit, and 2-3 on follow up, which isn't bad, based on what I tested today. Just to tune you in on this change, too, looks like something got "fixed" somewhere in the last month, as Rains are reporting back damage from procs across the board, and not just isolated to Freezing Rain. I dug around trying to see if I could find a posted log from before to show the difference, but couldn't find it (I thought I had, but maybe I didn't post one). They're definitely using a 10/s scaling for triggers, and even Earthquake is returning values that I didn't capture nearly a month ago, but if you wanted something for your own records, I've got an hours worth of game log attached to this dropping some kind of rain every 15-20/s. chatlog 2019-09-08.txt

The thing is, it's all about those +Recharge bonuses. When looking at a proc-focused build, you can't rely on set bonuses coming out of the powers you'll be significantly stacking procs in to, so if we need to hunt down recharge, it has to be in the areas where set bonuses are possible, and that's in the Primary for Tankers. Unfortunately the very fact that you pulled out nearly 14% global recharge invalidates the changes, and makes them not possible to accept. This is the reason that there are the 7.5% LotG and a 5-set of Red Forturnes, specifically for the extra 5% Recharge and no other reason. The idea behind leveraging procs in the attacks is not having any recharge enhancements in those abilities, which means no set bonuses coming from there. As for the ATO's the only portion of any of those that can be leveraged in a few places are four pieces from the 'Might of the Tanker' set to get the extra 10% Recharge.

I'd dare say that Tanker changes fit perfectly into my plans! And you'll have a pretty solid play-by-play of them right here 😄

It's a shame you didn't wait till I got here, could've at least given you some hope! I played some Energy Melee Whack-a-Rikti at +4. Energy Resistant buggers, but they don't hold up well to just being beaten to death... by procs. Bone Smasher: Whirling Hands: What's that Chief Mentalist? Did my PBAoE just smack you for an additional 108 damage?! Mmmhmm. Oh, you're still standing? Let me fix that... Energy Transfer: /em nudges Chief Mentalist corpse "You really couldn't handle a 343.2 damage attack, eh?" I did pre-testing for Tank Proc Tests waiting for Beta to get set back to "business as usual," using Energy Melee paired with Bio Armor (on a Tank...obviously?). So these base values are also lacking since there's no Alpha Musculature buffing the additional ~40% damage enhancement. Procs dramatically change the playing field for Energy Melee at the moment. I'd've suggested giving this a try because... it was pretty fun, and nearly every attack ended up with a 50-75% improvement in damage output. It goes from wishing it could crush it, to actually crushing it. Edit: No, I haven't officially, officially posted these results over in the other thread. Ssshh.

Status Update Tanker Testing is officially on hold for approximately a week. Confirmed estimation of time before the server will be wiped (so all current stuff gone, which sucks, but is expected), and the status of things reset to "cheat mode" given "sometime next week."

No, unfortunately. Bopper did the digging for the math, and I shared in a ton of testing work for how the procs actually result in-game currently. You can get the formulas here. There is a probability maximum of 90%, minimum of 5% for all procs, and their PPM is what is used to determine that probability. Regrettably the ParagonWiki is not fully accurate, and has not been updated since Homecoming. It has the general idea, but not the full truth of it. The formulas that Bopper put together are confirmed from Homecoming Dev's for accuracy, extracted from source code, and verified through excessive testing. I'm speaking from verified testing, in conjunction with other players who have logged the actual damage being dealt, and looked for the proc triggers. They're not occurring as much as you might think they are. I'm not saying they don't, just that it is far less than you might think they are, or would want them to actual do. When you drop that patch, those procs are only getting a trigger chance once at drop, and once every following 10/s. For FR, that's only two prompts. The damage you're experiencing is main-line just FR taking advantage of its own -Res effect. If you truly believe you're getting more, I'd encourage you to watch the combat logs (both pet damage and your damage), and go out and drop FR a dozen times and look at the proc triggers in the combat logs. Widen the window, there's going to be a lot of 1's. When you say VC, or you referring to Volcanic Gasses? As that power actually does work accordingly, and its obsessively large recharge allows you to get away with maximizing enhancement and still getting a high probability. Like I said, take a stronger look at the other build, I'm not changing the world or trying to destroy yours, just sharing what is confirmed, and with a build that is proven to work, and proven to be superior in performance. I'm not saying you should go off and respec right now, but there is significant impact in what's there that can help you. Edited to add this: I didn't see that an entire second page went into overflow, but I think you need read these two threads: Controller Proc Thread and Defender Proc Thread to see where things stand right now. I know you commented in one of them, but I think you may have passed over the point of the topic, and what was being tested.

It wasn't turned on before they adjusted the server for the move to a "live" release, I checked to see for similar reasons to what we're talking about (testing purposes). It might've gotten switched on temporarily as part of the transition to "live." I'll check it again once they revert and see.

Now if only we could use this on the test server as well, but sadly they (with considerable reason) have the AE "Server" turned off on Beta. Could you not include a glowie as a mission complete tool instead of a destructible item? I know this used to be an option originally. Depending on AE settings for the player, when standard XP rewards are toggled, it is still possible to get "rewards" as normal, so that might still be nice versus having people who can't complete it, having to drop it instead.

This looks pretty solid, but I'd highly encourage trying to get Hurl Boulder in there as your last power pick. If you think you can get away with not using Tactics, then swap that placement with Combat Jumping and use the last slot for Hurl, or consider tossing out Volcanic Gasses. Even in best-case scenario, that power will still take 70/s recharge, and in my experience that tends to end up making a power something people glaze over because it has such a long timer. It's not a bad power, it is a great "oh crap" utility with a ton of bonus damage with the procs, but do evaluate your use of the ability. If you end up leaving it on the shelf more than pouring it over your enemies, maybe skipping that bottle of awesome is in order. If you swapped out Tactics and Volcanic for Thunderclap and Hurl Boulder, you have plenty of slots to toy with in the result, and Thunderclap would give you an ability to stack disorients on Stalagmites so it'll double-up to Mag 5 and kick out lieuts and less-resisted bosses, which'll be just like a Hold effect for you at that point. In fact, a 4-set of Overpowering Presence with the Energy Font proc is a great way to manipulate Thunderclap, get your "hold" effect on faster notice, and keep some of the damage aspect by summoning a Font every 13 seconds. And, as for the whole Hurl Boulder thing, the reason I'm suggesting this is because you're going to have scenarios where you've only got a few meandering targets left, or heavy ST left overs like Bosses/EB/AV that popping proc-heavy AoE's isn't going to be effecient, and thus leave you with a lot of extra down time in between casts on Tornado/FR/LS. Seismic and Fossilize will have heavy gaps to deal with, and Hurl fills it well, and allows you to keep cycling FF+Rech procs. This is a really big deal because that proc helps keep your Tornado/FR/LS coming up faster, and Hurl has a sizable recharge, and animation time, so your probability will still be decent. You should take a closer look at what Avilister is working towards. Your build sacrifices a ton of opportunity and doesn't have nearly the same level of damage capability. All those procs you have committed to Freezing Rain and Earthquake, as the game currently stands, are doing (basically) nothing. It's a fault of the game algorithm on rain type powers, and the patch abilities like earthquake, ice slick, and quicksand. You'd also get a lot of extra mileage out of your Storm abilities by getting a few Force Feedback +Rech procs in the build too. Build higher global recharge bonuses and take your excess recharge enhancements out of your abilities and you'll get a significant increase in proc performance as well. That extra enhancement lowers your probability and negatively impacts anything with a 30/s or lower base recharge. Seismic Smash, when set up as a fully loaded Proc power, will hit for 500 points on its own. It's all about global bonuses, boosted ToHit to offset slotting limitations, and loading up on Procs. Controllers get a lot of mileage out of it.

A took a bit of a look at the build you posted, there's a slightly different avenue available that could help patch work some areas of the build. For the most part you were pretty much as far as this kind of build could go, I just patched in certain areas and shifted some weight to a couple of powers that really should've had it over some others. I will also say that even if Spore Clouds only impacts for half of its value, that's still enough to alter the few defense areas that need a bit more of a push to bring the entire build into a quasi soft-cap..

Testing Update Beta Server is still in mimic mode and hasn't been kicked back over to full unlock mode yet, so bit delayed on moving forward with testing specific builds to their full extremes. I've gotten most of the builds rounded out at this point though, I have 14 15 in total put together, but most likely not going to go through 14 15 total tests. I'm definitely going to run a few specific Primary sets to make sure their "Proc Maximized" approach performs well, and a few builds are going to head out to some folks that "tossed a hat in the ring." Primary v. Secondary Evaluations I evaluated as many of the sets as warranted to look for prime resolutions to making the optimal build for a proc paired (and ideally set-bonus-less) secondary. Super Reflexes is definitely the easiest one (whether that was obvious or not) given it takes very little effort to get that build to 45%. Something interesting about SR, is doing it with a Tanker it can hit 59% in a fast hurry, so balancing that down a bit gives some power flexibility. I ended up working Titan Weapons in to SR since it was essentially the only set that allowed the most freedom to mess with Titan and have both extra power choices, and slots. Slots are definitely the biggest struggle here. Trying to balance out where and how slots get allocated to give the secondary the most breathing room for power selection, the potential to get an effective use out of a few epic powers, and how all the attacks get worked out was an interesting challenge. Some Primary Sets surprised me like Invulnerability, leaving me with a pretty wide margin of slots to use (48), and a couple of situations with Resistance based sets where the shear lack of any defensive powers and heavy defensive slotting left more versatile power choices and a few extra slots to shuffle around. If I was able to hard-cap Resistance values (or get real close), I completely avoided any kind of defense based platform and left the rest of those builds to focus on proc performance beyond that. Electric ended up probably being the easiest to balance out at ~90% across the board. Dark has several gap areas, but if it flips on four toggles and gets hit with a 20% defense shield, it's probably one of the most unkillable options to play. With each primary I looked at options for a paired secondary that might either compliment, or benefit from the nature of the primary it got paired with. Some choices were natural selections a lot of players already take, so it became more an evaluation of 'how much better do procs make this popular pairing'? I mentioned in a previous post about the "Flavour of the Month" analysis of power set selections and popularity, and how I was going to look towards that for sets to focus on. What I pulled from that was the top four, and bottom four choices from Tanks, Scrappers, Stalkers, and Brutes. I then pulled the commonalities and made sure that those sets were represented some how. From the bottom of the Melee class chain for Defensive sets: Ice Armor, Super Reflexes, Energy Armor, Electric Armor, and Dark Armor. From the top of the Melee class chain for Defensive sets: Bio Armor, Shield Defense, and Willpower From the bottom of the Melee class chain for Attack sets: Kinetic Melee, Ice Melee, Martial Arts, Battle Axe From the top of the Melee class chain for Attack sets: Electric Melee, Radiation Melee, Super Strength, and Spines When I do a final collection of build posts, all of these sets will have some kind of representation. There will also be one non-Tanker build I drop in this process because Tanks don't have Energy Armor (why not?! /em sadface), and I was belligerently insistent on doing a "Strong and Pretty" proc build so there will be a Brute War Mace/Energy Armor among the masses. Some other specific builds I want to hype up early: Bio Armor/Energy Melee There's already been some floating mentions about Energy Melee getting a more significant review for Melee classes, and not just the Dominator Assault set. No mentions of a when, just that the current "dev team" is "looking into it." Energy Melee has a lot of bad history, and I wanted to see what Procs might do to change this set in a meaningful way. Radiation/Spines Talk came up about Radiation's extra AoE capabilities baked into the Primary, and I really wanted to look both at those, and Spines for procs, and see what could be done about making a "Proc Blender." Rad Armor just made the most sense to try this out with. Super Reflexes/Titan Weapons I want to see just what a raw TW Proc Build can do! Going to toss in some options here because having templates ends up being a big request for some. I grabbed some basic "Blanks" as I was calling them, for a few Primary sets where any Secondary can be dropped into them and proc-loaded. These are (mostly) contained slot options that don't need any (if much of any) extra add ins from the attack set. I only grabbed a few of them: But Mysh, this wall of text and no testing?! Not quite, I did actually drop a couple of builds onto test to get started, but I didn't want to go crazy encase the server gets wiped on the next load-up, or there's an issue with parsing the unlock of Incarnates on Beta for existing toons. So what did I test? Shield/Rad. Loaded it up and took it for a spin to start really testing that Contaminated spread and how procs reported back. I have a huge hour long data log to flip through, but I can say early that Procs do, in fact, trigger off the contaminated spread effect. I went around just punching one thing with just Radioactive Smash over and over, and over, and over, to kick those triggers. They're definitely procs floating off the Pseudo Pet that's delivering around Contaminated from the primary target. It pretty much is to the point where I can run in with Irradiated Ground on, put RS on auto-fire, and walk away for a few minutes. Despite not having access to Musculature or Ageless for testing, it looks like the build is fairly self sustained without the Incarnate tools. I can pretty easily clear 52-54 Rikti spawns in the RWZ within a couple of minutes by bouncing Atomic and Shield Charge. I did collect some footage of this thing plowing through Rikti, and I'll probably put that together once I can do "final" testing after Beta restoration. I did also run out and punch a Pylon, a lot, to get a pretty core time to measure against. Without the incarnate slots unlocked, (so no damage balancing with Musculature, it took me 10:30 to take down a Pylon.

Something to contrast against: Radiation Blast does get a decent assortment of proc options, but I found Dark Blast to be a smoother operational choice since Tenebrous and Torrent work as a really effective engine together. Keep a group locked at range in a specific place while whittling them down. Out of curiosity I put together a build to personally compare against yours in the attempt and focusing on putting more procs and seeing what balance I could come up with. Dark having -ToHit in all of its attacks also super-supports Beta Decay and lets the build get away with a bit more stretch-management on defense. Was there any particular reason you stayed away from Positronic Fist? That thing hits for 600+ damage without Aim/BU... Negatron is up there too, those are both pretty high DPA attacks. Moonbeam > Negatron* > Abyssal > Moonbeam > Positronic > Negatron *in initial rotation, in follow up if Negatron procs FF+Rech, Abyssal will be up after Moonbeam, and Negatron can be cast after Abyssal, if not, cast Gloom instead Hypothetically I think this thing should be able to sit somewhere in the 3:00-4:00 window for taking down something like a Pylon. Considering you talked about that metric, figured this would give some idea of strength level for you. DPS without Interface should be somewhere around 285-350 I think? I kinda roughly estimated that in a hurry.

Unfortunately the whole point was a dual purpose of "can I take down an AV level target" and, subsequently, give us a general idea of DPS on a character. The odd nature of a how a Pylon recoups its HP is what makes the equation a bit wonky. Everything in the game has some kind of naturally reoccurring Regen rate, so there's no path for removing that option (that I'm aware of). Something I personally would like to maybe see would be an effectual in-game tool to help extract that value, like the Test Dummies in RWZ and how they can be attacked forever and never "die". Turn it into one of those strength testers you see at a carnival, except it spits out a "current DPS" instead. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be something retrofitted, but something we could drop into a base, or an item we could uniquely spawn. I've only shared it (at this point) with one other person I know who wanted to better grasp the value impact of what that tool effectively measured (back then). Like you said, there's too many variables at this point. I may take a look at it. My Tanker Proc Testing is on hold until the Justin Beta Server gets "Restored" to "Normal" so, I have a tiny bit of extra time.

Should I dust off the old Survival Spreadsheet? I’m sure I have that Excel file around here somewhere... I will say that lately I’ve been contemplating a more realistic approach of popping into Oroborous and picking through specific AVs to not only give a more significant value to the challenge of taking down an AV level target, but better quantifying how a Pylon Time translates to a practical fight. Basically doing both the Pylon Run, and then picking a fight with an actual AV and comparing. It’s been a while since I’ve messed with AE, but curious if it wouldn’t be possible to make one with all the Praetorians tossed in to hand pick them out of a single mission for testing.

If the build didn’t appear (even once) than no one had it at 50. That aside, Ice is currently the lowest performing set out of all the Control sets. Illusion and Plant are in the top. Fire, Dark, and then Earth, Grav, Electric in respective group orders. Mind is hard to quantify a real value given how much of it is bent towards Confusion utility. Finding so many Electric and Earth in the “unfavored” zone (the bottom) is amusing. If more people knew how dramatically Procs change those two sets, there’d probably be a lot more people playing them.

Short answer: Yes. Long answer: There is a point where the appreciable boost of damage enhancements are overshadowed by the average value of what a proc will add. This is a little different for different powers/ATs, but typically procs quickly become superior for Defenders and Controllers in many of their abilities after just 60-80%. You can easily achieve this within one or two mixed IOs and/or a combination with an Alpha like Intuition or Musculature (or Nerve if you forgo any accuracy). This path gives you at least four slots for Procs, assuming that many a variety exists. For Tankers I can typically achieve 100-110% slotting in just two slots w/ Musculature Core alpha. There are a lot of different ways to approach this. There are many specific powers and sets where Procs significantly alter their performance, like turning the Defender Epic version of Char and Dominate into 400+ point hitting attacks.

There are certain blast sets that respond better to maximizing proc capacity than others, like Dual Pistols, Dark Blast, just because they have additional mechanics that allow for more IO sets to pull from. Beam Rifle doesn’t have that same diversity so you can only do what you can. Like what @Bopper said, play what you find fun and just use this knowledge to try and best maximize what you can.

I went and pulled this from the original archived thread: "Both numbers are adjusted by the 20% resistance of the pylon. A pylon actually has 30675 hit points and regenerates 30675 * 5% / 15 = 102.25 hit points per second. I was removing as many terms as possible from the formula. " per @Werner (yes, I just summoned you). Underlined for reference two key values. That was from 2009, so if an alteration occurred to the Pylon between then and now, I didn't dig deep enough to see if a corrective formula was posted. Given the variance is so dramatically small, I doubt its worth splitting hairs over at this point. Especially considering most of us just round off anything in the decimal field anyway so those .1-.3 variances were never being accounted for half the time. The formula from the first page still gives 578.9595588235294 DPS versus the composite formula of 578.9154411764706 Then confirming with Bill'z corrected composite formula: 578.9595588235294 Interesting how one small math error resulted in the realization that the composite formula the majority of us had been using was off by a marginal percentage in the decimal point this entire time.

What you're talking about has nothing to do with Power Boost*, although I appreciate you bringing it to my attention as this particular "party trick" is definitely a bug in how Fade is communicating with +Damage boosts that I wasn't aware was occurring. All of my testing has consistently been without the use of Inspirations for any reason, so I wouldn't have ever come across this. I did in fact hop over to Test and play around with it. Any +Damage effect placed on my character prior to activating Fade impacts the value it returns for the Resistance buff. No one is going to carry around a constant tray of Reds to damage cap every 60/s, but a team member with some serious boosts will definitely work. Essentially anything that alters the base value of 0.00% Damage Bonus, so set bonuses, reds, Fortitude, Offense Amplifiers, that little 5% vanity Pet... And, just for sake of saying, tested this explicitly without Power Boost. *edited to clarify this: In regards to your previous statement: "Fade is not supposed to work with powerboost." What you pointed out, in regards to the Resistance oddity, is a bug in the source for Fade itself.

All my builds are under the expectation of being capable of running at +4, but do keep in mind that in some cases where Accuracy is involved, minor fluctuations were traded in the event that having an Alpha slotted essentially reduces the majority of game play to +3 when not looking exclusively at Incarnate content. However, even in the event of running Incarnate content, qualified areas would stack the additional level shifts granted exclusively for that content. Basically, once Incarnates are involved, you'll rarely actually face something at +4 again. But this was entirely focused on Accuracy. If you're referring to Defensive values specifically, I'd need to know what exactly you're referring to as Dark and Time function differently depending on the build circumstances, and you are most definitely not accounting for all aspects of how the build functions to determine a defensive value. In the case that Primal is taken to get access to Power Boost, this power gives a significant bonus to Fade and Farsight, and that effect stays the entirety of the duration on either power. In that situation, any of the given builds (Controller or Defender), were built to achieve a minimum 45% defense (at which point it would've been to all, both typed and positional). In any of the builds where Dark did not take Power Boost, the offset of defensive attribution comes from running Darkest Night. In conjunction with the Intuition Radial Alpha, Darkest Night will apply a significant -ToHit debuff to the primary target, and those within its area of effect. -ToHit can rudimentary be considered the anti-thesis to needing defense. Basically for every 1% of -ToHit, that's equal to 1% of defense you don't need. Certain targets (like AV's), can resist a portion (typically up to half) of that value so you must be mindful of that fact. For the other 99.5% of the game though, Darkest Night is essentially an over-softcap for defense. For Controllers, a typical */Dark build would've been somewhere around 33-37% base Defense with Fade (no Power Boost). Darkest Night would give me -18%, which would equate to 51-55% defense. Or, if resisted, 42-46%. I'm generalizing that window for sake of not going back and reconfirming every single one's exact values, but they should all be above 45% to some degree. In the cases where I did pair Power Boost, and still took Darkest Night, that carries the build into Incarnate content to be capable of handling the iCap of 59% due to boosted enemy ToHit values. As for survivability of any of the builds, I tested against 54 Rikti in the RWZ. I did all the proc testing in the RWZ because of group clusters being more consistent, faster respawn rates, and the ability to get proc-functionality tests done on low-levels with no threat, and then also do survival testing on appropriate spawns. When I tested against the Pylons, this was purely a check on capacity to take down an AV level enemy solo and get a gauge on the DPS level of the build. The FF+Rech proc only lasts for 5/s once it gets triggered. You need to detoggle any power that gets one of those procs placed in it when using Mid's as it is not a true calculation to the effect of the proc. Those quick bursts shave off seconds across the board, somewhere between 3-5 on average in most cases, maybe a bit more for something larger, or a bit less for powers already reaching their limit. The best places to see this proc pop up on the regular are powers that have no recharge enhancement directly in them and a base recharge (at least) <15/s, Around <30/s and you'll see it pretty consistently. Also take into account that if you slot it into a power that has an AoE/Cone attribute, you need to be in a target zone that will hit at least 10 mobs to be a reliable proc, 5 if the power has a much longer base recharge. That's anecdotal for the most part, not a "it must be" but what broke down as an average expectations when I tested that if I got at least that many in the target zone, I was good.